  E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1355 Registered: 11-2004 |
Interesting... http://youtube.com/watch?v=w1C 44JQU7Pc | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1491 Registered: 07-2004 |
I prefer Tesla's "death ray"... http://www.rense.com/general10 /deathray.htm | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 623 Registered: 07-2004 |
Base price is $98,000. I'd like to test drive one, it seems like it would be a fun little car. www.teslamotors.com | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2330 Registered: 06-2006 |
I prefer that machine he built for Robert Angier (aka The Great Danton) in "The Prestige" http://youtube.com/watch?v=MOd tR_s9Yjw | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2974 Registered: 10-2003 |
Speaking of my hero, if anybody watches House, in the last episode he was in a large classroom trying to pick his new assistants, and on the chalkboard behind him somebody had written "TESLA WAS ROBBED!". I thought it was a nice little bit of uber-nerd humor. Also, the night before I had finally watched "The Prestige", which has Nikola Tesla in it as a character. Great movie, highly recommended. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2975 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ha, TJ beat me to it. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1493 Registered: 07-2004 |
Too bad he became unhinged in later years. I love the story about how as a boy he was confined to a bed and considered terminally ill but then reading Mark Twain brought him back to life. | ||
Oldoak Member Username: Oldoak Post Number: 37 Registered: 09-2007 |
CBS Sunday Morning did a story on this car and the next model is intended to be around 30K. | ||
Oldoak Member Username: Oldoak Post Number: 38 Registered: 09-2007 |
link to story http://search.cbsnews.com/?sou rce=cbs&q=tesla+car&x=0&y=0 | ||
Abracadabra Member Username: Abracadabra Post Number: 116 Registered: 04-2007 |
Tj, Johnlodge, if you didn't notice, it's David Bowie that plays him. Loved it. I really like the theory that he was responsible for the Tunguska explosion in Russia - http://prometheus.al.ru/englis h/phisik/onichelson/tunguska.h tm | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1447 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am in love with this guy. He is terrific. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HXK D8Nhe6Cw&mode=related&search=N ikola%20Tesla%20Smiljan%20Gosp ic%20Lika%20Edison%20Orson%20W elles%20Science%20Energy%20Cro atia%20Hrvatska%20Serb%20Croat %20Rade%20Serbedzija What a contorted jumble of bullshit. The internet is so great. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 3179 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't wanna drive no car built by that guy in Dan's video ... | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2006 |
12 posts and nobody's brought up he often came to the D to visit his niece? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 4962 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hundreds of pounds of heavy toxic metal/chemical based batteries that will need to be disposed of as useless in 3 years, charging provided by burning something (coal?, Oil?, other). Maybe not as wonderful of an idea as it is cracked up to be. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2003 |
^^^^ Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries are 100% recyclable. You should research the technology more. However, the debate of where to get that electricity does continue. | ||
Iaintgotnostyle Member Username: Iaintgotnostyle Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2007 |
now thats a YUGO I would buy! | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 5075 Registered: 11-2006 |
Not 100% recyclable in reality because the cost of such an efficient process would far exceed the cost of disposal and new batteries. If what you say is true, the Nimh market would flatten at a saturation point. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 255 Registered: 05-2006 |
Teslas run on Lithium Ion, not NiMH or lead acid. Lithium is not particulary toxic given that it is prescribed as a medicine. I guess if you were to EAT your battery, it would be toxic. CCbatson once again proves his ignorance or his inability to read a web site before giving us his uninformed opinion. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3032 Registered: 10-2003 |
CC is a proponent of nuclear power, and dismisses any questions of what to do with all that nuclear waste, yet the idea of recycling batteries is absurd to him. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1500 Registered: 07-2004 |
It's absurd to worry about both, because the almighty Jeebus is going to take care of it. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 492 Registered: 02-2007 |
Electric cars involve a very wasteful means of energy transfer with losses (law of diminishing returns). Never going to be feasible with the present technology. The dupe here is that because it runs on electricity something is happening for free. Nothing is free. It's ironic how most folks seem complacent about the deplorable performance of an electric vehicle, excusing it. If they are so easily swayed for the sake of economy. How about an economic car? 2 cyl diesel, less than 1kGVW anyone? | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 256 Registered: 05-2006 |
If you charge your car using solar, wind or hydro power, I would argue that it it pretty damn near free. I would hardly call the performance of the Tesla deplorable! zero to 60 in under 4 seconds? Top speed 125 mph. What is deplorable about that??? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 493 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "zero to 60 in under 4 seconds? Top speed 125 mph" For a quarter mile  Kidding but not much. With limited storage of electricity it's high output, short duration or low output long duration, pick one, ya can't have both. Solar isn't free, matter of fact no solar cell has produced enough energy to pay for itself yet. Or hadn't a few years back. And on days like today... Wind nor Hydro power is free. Ever price a wind generator? One that actually works I mean. Live near moving water? Electric cars are nothing more than a novelty. They've been around since the beginning of the auto age and not one has ever came close to being feasible. These hybrids are hilarious. They actually save money pulling in and out of the driveway. Like the heatpump, the savings depend on many factors. Often there are no real savings and worse. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 258 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote:For a quarter mile Kidding but not much. With limited storage of electricity it's high output, short duration or low output long duration, pick one, ya can't have both. What is it about you people that you cannot READ THE TESLA WEB SITE? The range is 245 miles on a charge and a 3.5 hour recharge. So unless you live in Michigan and work in New York, I can't imagine what problem you would have with that. You can have both because the technology has changed and we are not living in the 1900's anymore. Quote: Solar isn't free, matter of fact no solar cell has produced enough energy to pay for itself yet. Or hadn't a few years back. And on days like today... Wind nor Hydro power is free. Ever price a wind generator? One that actually works I mean. Live near moving water? Ever priced an oil well, an oil tanker and an oil refinery? Are we talking about the infrastructure costs or the cost of the energy itself? | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 260 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: Live near moving water? Chances are that you are. There are over 300 named rivers in Michigan. Henry Ford built a series of water powered plants as part of his Village Industry project, many along the Rouge. But we don't want to take a chance with this "newfangled" stuff do we? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3033 Registered: 10-2003 |
It seems by their nature, electric cars should have the potential to be more efficient, for the simple fact that they have far less moving parts than an internal combustion engine. Less moving parts = less opportunity for friction and loss of power. But I am not an engineer, so I'm only speculating. It does seem that new battery technology has incredible energy storage potential. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 495 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ya have to love marketing. "3.5 recharge" Wondering is it 50 milliamperes? 50Amps? Truly think about all the stops, starts, accelerations. Consider wind resistance, mechanical resistance, losses from electrical resistance, losses from tire friction, associated with a 245 mile trip. Now think about the actual amount of current required. Plan on coasting a lot. We all drive fossil fuel I/C driven jalopies for one reason. The technology won out over all others back in the day and by huge margins. Nothing new here. All the media shock about better battery technology. Batteries are just storage devices, they don't produce anything. If someone comes out with a better gastank, is it going to improve fuel mileage? DTE in charge of or at least involved in our ability to drive from point A to point B? I'll bet they're lickin' their chops. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3037 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sstash, do you have evidence to support your claim that the stats on that car are false? I've heard people say "aww, that will never work" or "we are at the absolute limits of that technology" way too many times in my life, only to later see those people proven wrong. I see no reason to unequivicobly declare a technology worthless and with no potential to everybody in a public forum. Some people really seem to enjoy doing that though. We drive fossil fuel because it won out over others "back in the day"? Well yeah... Back in 1900 the options were pretty limited. But maybe 107 years later, things are worth taking another look at? I'll wait to see what some of our great minds are coming up with. Until then I reserve my judgement, despite what the flat earth society may suggest. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 497 Registered: 02-2007 |
John, I really hope I'm wrong. But, I don't think I am. Fact: Electricity is expensive in relation to fossil fuels. Need proof? replace any of your natural gas appliances with electric. As long as that holds true, electric cars will never be cheaper to operate. Put a 10 amp draw on a home's electric system for 2 or 3 hours everyday all month and one can expect a high electric bill. There is probably an alternate form of economic propulsion, but batteries and electric motors are not it. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 359 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sstashmoo, would you agree that battery technology has significantly improved since "back in the day" when the IC engine won out? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 498 Registered: 02-2007 |
^^Absolutely, much better storage. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3039 Registered: 10-2003 |
Electric cars have the potential to be a part of the future of our Nation's energy plan, one that does not rely on foreign oil. Gasoline cars do not. Even if power plants used coal, nuclear, wind, and solar, the electric cars would then be capable of being charged by those methods. Electric cars can be powered by any means you can come up with. That is their benefit. You could use natural gas, as you've pointed out. Now, if you want to limit the debate to us having a bunch of electric cars, but no new power plants, then you are right, everybody having an electric car is impractical. But as a part of a future solution, that does not have our nation swinging by the whims of a crooked oil cartel, they look pretty good. | ||
Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 72 Registered: 04-2007 |
GM's EV1 battery-powered electric car averaged three miles per kilowatthour(kWh)whether the battery was lead-acid or nickel metal hydride. Some drivers with lead feet got closer to two miles per kWh and others who drove conservatively got closer to five miles per kWh. At ten cents per kWh, the "fuel" would cost 2.0 to 3.5 cents per mile of travel. Even taking into account the life-cycle cost of the battery, the total cost of operating an electric vehicle is now well below the cost of gasoline. Source - the U.S. Dept. of Energy reports, GM and actual user data. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 262 Registered: 05-2006 |
And the EV1 is a dinosaur compared to the Tesla. The technology has come a loooong way since then. If you believe the reports of EESTOR in Texas, then they are about to make another huge jump with barium nitrate ultracapacitors (not sure I believe that though). The electric motor to drive cars at highway speeds with accelerations better than IC engines are here now. I own one. The problem has always been the batteries, ever since the 1900's. The reason the electric car lost then was the batteries. The reason the EV1 failed was the batteries. Any EV owner past and present will tell you that the batteries are their biggest pain in the ass. To say that "batteries are just storage devices" is ignorant. Batteries are EVERYTHING for the electric vehicle. Give the world the perfect battery and you will change transportation and a number of other industries. I wish I knew which technology and which company is going to win out in that race - I would invest every dime I had in it. You say that electricity is too expensive, but consider this - what if the way that we make electricty also changes? There is a lot of hype about putting hydrogen fuel cells into cars because of their efficiency and their impact on the environment. I don't believe that we should necessarily be trying to put fuel cells into cars because of problems and dangers of fueling up and storing the hydrogen, but I do see us putting fuel cells into our homes to generate electricity. Hydrogen stored or piped into a home is easier to work with than in a high pressure tank going 80 MPH down the highway. Electricity is more expensive than fossil fuels NOW. How long will that last? Will the US be ready when fossil fuel prices jump again? Or will we be left behind by forward looking countries that are already addressing this problem? An electric car can run on any form of fuel that can produce electricity - even methane from garbage dumps or cow manure. If you calculate the REAL cost of fossil fuel including the wars that we fight over it then I think that electricity is looking a lot better. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 499 Registered: 02-2007 |
Red, Sounds great. I'll believe it when I see it. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 500 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "To say that "batteries are just storage devices" is ignorant." To claim they are anything more surely is. I'm always up for learning something, what are they then? And how are they "EVERYTHING"? And how are you getting anything out that you don't put in? And the heat is not lost energy? Internal resistance not a problem? Quote: "I don't believe that we should necessarily be trying to put fuel cells into cars because of problems and dangers of fueling up and storing the hydrogen," Mrs Jones handling 100's of amps of available current at rather high voltage will be safer? What about a major accident involving vehicles with these types of currents stored? Enough current to start fires or heat metallic objects to a few thousand degrees. Like the vehicle body as a toaster coil. Quote: "The electric motor to drive cars at highway speeds with accelerations better than IC engines are here now. I own one." Oh that explains everything, my condolences... | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3045 Registered: 10-2003 |
""I don't believe that we should necessarily be trying to put fuel cells into cars because of problems and dangers of fueling up and storing the hydrogen," Mrs Jones handling 100's of amps of available current at rather high voltage will be safer? What about a major accident involving vehicles with these types of currents stored? Enough current to start fires or heat metallic objects to a few thousand degrees. Like the vehicle body as a toaster coil." These arguments are always interesting, considering we hurtle our way down the road at 70 miles per hour strapped to a tank filled with 20 gallons of gasoline. I'm sure the first people who proposed THAT idea were met with some skepticism from the public. I have no doubt safe ways of implementing these things can be found. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 264 Registered: 05-2006 |
The point about the batteries is that all the other components to make a great vehicle are already commonly available. A great battery is all that is missing. Perhaps if you read the post you would have gotten that. We are surrounded by devices that have high amps every day. Ever ride the People Mover? Were you scared that it would become a toaster coil? Haven't heard of many people being fried by their electric forklift. The forklift operators seem to be able to handle them ok. Some of the amperage there is similar to what you would see in an electric vehicle depending on the size of the forklift. The People Mover has a lot more amps than an EV ever would. I would be willing to bet that more people are burned to death annually in vehicle fires caused by good old gasoline that have ever been burned by electric vehicles of any sort. | ||
Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2007 |
There are inherent risks with any form of transportation. Some are safer than others. Back in the horse and buggy days, people were killed by falling off horses or being run over by out of control wagons. Electric vehicles have fuses and other types of devices to isolate the battery in case of an accident. There is even an emergency responder training program which teaches police and fire personnel how to respond to an electric or hybrid vehicle accident. After having driven electric cars and trucks for tens of thousands of miles the basic issue IS the battery. I would put my money on the next generation of nickel metal hydride batteries for the next ten years. Lithium batteries need more development and testing in large pack configurations. (Just saw another TV news story about an iPod lithium battery melt down because the user had it in his pocket while operating it.) The aging issue of lithium batteries lasting longer then 3-4 years is still not proven satisfactorily in large pack configurations. On a positive note though, Aerovironment recently conducted a successful lithium battery recharge test in less than five minutes. Other than the efficiency of fuel cells, the storage of enough hydrogen to power a vehicle farther than 40 miles is a very big issue. Also, where does hydrogen come from? It's not naturally occurring so you can obtain it chemically or electrically. Both industries would lick their lips at that increased market. We haven't discussed efficiencies yet but credible studies indicate electric vehicles are significantly more efficient from the energy source to the wheels on the ground. By the way, you do not need to build any more electric power plants if the majority of battery charging is conducted while you sleep at night. There's plenty of capacity available across the country. |
