  Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 947 Registered: 11-2005 |
And it's Wednesday, the Free Press reports. Let's hope we don't have a Sssssteeeeeeriiiiiike two. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2321 Registered: 06-2006 |
these people have no idea what century they are in... tell me again exactly why the US auto companies would bow to the UAW's demands instead of just moving the jobs to other states and to Mexico? | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 287 Registered: 06-2007 |
great... just friggin' great. Here we go again. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 351 Registered: 12-2006 |
You guys are overreacting. Here's my two cents on this. 1. Their will be a strike. 2. It's something both the UAW leadership and the Big Three are ok with. Here is why. The UAW leadership knows that they have to make major concessions in every single contract they are negotiating this year with the Big Three. However, if the leadership wants these contracts to be approved by the rank and file and if they want to keep their comfy jobs as union leaders, they have to make it look like they put up a fight. Hence the 2 day strike against GM. That was nothing more than a dog and pony show to convince the UAW workers that some effort was made to limit the concessions they made. Don't be shocked if all three negotiations end up as strikes. There is also a hidden benefit out of the strike days for the Big Three. It seems that for the past several years, the Big Three has had to make announcements that they are cutting production in order to account for reduced demand for their vehicles. The announcements of these production cuts turn into more bad PR in the media. By having a 2 day total shutdown, they sort of already had their built in production cut. So don't get worked up over this. They probably already have an agreement now and they are just waiting for the "strike" to happen on wednesday. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2324 Registered: 06-2006 |
El Jimbo: I'll admit, that same possibility about the leaders staging a strike just to appease their membership crossed my mind during the GM strike...and if that's what they're doing, then I have no problem with that... but if they're seriously trying to strong-arm the auto companies, then they (and the region) will lose big time | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 352 Registered: 12-2006 |
theJesus, I too hope they aren't trying to strong arm either. It would be foolish. These reforms HAVE to happen. If I had a choice between getting paid less and keeping my job or having no job at all, I'd take the pay cut. The "evidence" that made me think the GM strike was for show was that a few days leading up to the strike there was the rumored tentative deal that was floating around in the news. Then Gettelfinger came on and said that wasn't true. Then a day or so later the strike happened. Usually, when a the rumors start hitting the papers of a tentative agreement, the official announcement isn't very far behind. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5021 Registered: 10-2003 |
The UAW is just trying to prove to the world that they are still relevant. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1788 Registered: 04-2006 |
This will be the more interesting of the negotiations/strikes, if it happens. This will be the true test of how Cerberus plans to manage Chrysler... | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9853 Registered: 10-2003 |
Don't forget that any concessions that the BIG 3 make will be passed down to their suppliers. To which in order to stay in business will close their own factories here and move them to Mexico and China. So a few jobs will be saved at Chrysler but how many hundreds or thousands of other jobs will be lost in other businesses? | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1938 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think you're basically right, El_jimbo. I have to give credit to Gettelfinger for agreeing to the most important concessions (the VEBA and the 2-tier wage scale), while doing it in a way that has a good chance of being approved by the rank and file. Overall, the contract seems like a pretty big win for GM (and hopefully Ford & Chrysler). (Message edited by Dougw on October 08, 2007) | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2006 |
Goat, What concessions did the Big 3 make? It seems like GM was the big winner and made ZERO concessions. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4223 Registered: 10-2004 |
A strike at a nontraded firm has less impact on the firm. Cerberus knows this. Besides, a strike is a great means to lower inventories. Their input inventories are JIT, whereas they have to sit on their unsold vehicles and risk having them damaged, etc. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 997 Registered: 10-2006 |
Elj, they let them keep their jobs. In this day of global outsourcing and rampant unemployment - that is the biggest concession of all! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4225 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Because GM had already announced (or leaked) that some plants were closing, keeping UAW jobs might just mean that the Jobs Bank would continue. It's doubtful that GM would survive another four years of Job Banking and still have much of its firm left. GM had virtually sold all of its remaining companies the past decade and is down to 49% of GMAC and what's left of its core businesses. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1704 Registered: 08-2006 |
"tell me again exactly why the US auto companies would bow to the UAW's demands instead of just moving the jobs to other states and to Mexico?" I have a question for you TJ. Why would the millions of people in this country who want to support an american company committed to the greater economy of our country ever buy a vehicle that chrysler made in a foreign country? Like I said in the GM thread, if GM pulls all thier production out of the US to spite the UAW, then that means if I want an American made car, the Honda Accord built in OH will be my choice over the Impala built in Metamoros. Don't you think in spite of the saber rattling these companies are aware of this? Why else haven't they gotten fed up years ago and left? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2333 Registered: 06-2006 |
^you very much overestimate the power of the "buy america" crowd that fact aside, please try to make your point in light of the first part of my statement that you conveniently ignored...the part about them moving jobs either OUT OF STATE or to Mexico... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1705 Registered: 08-2006 |
That's ok as you obviously under estimate the buy america crowd. Especially as more folks get put out of work thanks to globalization. Do you think they will forget all about and buy a car made in Mexico? | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 150 Registered: 01-2007 |
There are a few people I work with who went with other engine choices on their pickup when they discovered that the Hemi engine production moved to Mexico. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 203 Registered: 09-2007 |
lol. Next it will be Ford on the list. I guess the UAW says take 'em down one by one. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4232 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Matamoros This Matamoros is but a few miles from where my father was raised as a teenager in Rio Hondo. Could this be the place in Mexico by Cameron County TX that you're trying to spell? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 4912 Registered: 11-2006 |
Kill the unions dead, they are literally nothing but trouble. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1706 Registered: 08-2006 |
Yeah LY, the Metamoros that's just south of Brownsville. What's the correct spelling? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4235 Registered: 10-2004 |
Confer post 4232. Two 'a' and two 'o'--in that order. BTW, eight-year-old pimps there--right next to the cathedral--might approach you and say, "Meester! Me have seester!" and point to a preteen girl... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2342 Registered: 06-2006 |
Cambrian: I'll give a third chance to try and make your point... Why would the auto makers bow to the UAW's demands when they can so easily move the jobs to Mexico OR TO RIGHT-TO-WORK STATES???? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4239 Registered: 10-2004 |
Cerberus will probably play a different game of hardball than either Ford or GM. Cerberus itself has none of its own offices in Michigan, although it owns 51% of GMAC or over 80% of Chrysler. None of the latter two need permanently remain in Michigan to a firm like Cerberus. This four-year UAW contract could very well be the last for Cerberus. They may do, for state income tax purposes, among others, what Kimberly-Clark did to Wisconsin during the 1980s and move its HQ and key personnel from the state. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6648 Registered: 02-2004 |
YAY! SOLIDARITY FOREVER! Our unions of Michigan are strong. Support them all. Ford, you're next in our hit list. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1708 Registered: 08-2006 |
"I'll give a third chance to try and make your point... " Like I said above. Why would anyone besides maybe you buy a car Chrysler had assembled in Mexico, Matamoros or wherever, when they could buy the Honda made in OH? Unions exist in other states besides MI. Surely you had to know that. Like it or not the UAW makes more inroads to the Toyota workers in the KY plant every time profit the rich company tells its employees "take it or leave it" | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 475 Registered: 02-2007 |
A guy in Utah making 15 dollars an hour is not impressed that UAW workers are making 30. It only says to him that the autoworkers high wage is preventing him from driving a new vehicle. Thats one of the reasons the big 3 are losing US marketshare. When a lot of people buy foreign cars its a statement. We would see much more solidarity between the marketshare and the autoworkers if the payscales were more realistic. The UAW "victories" are just digging the graves a little deeper. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1713 Registered: 08-2006 |
I don't understand that either. You would think the guy in Utah would say, "If the UAW can do that for those guys, what can they do for me?" Instead he just resents them and says "Yeah boss, I'm your boy, I'll work 12 hours/ day for no OT pay and Sunday with no time and a half and I'll whistle while I do it!" or "Benefits? Sure I'll chip in $300 a month from my take home pay" | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4251 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'd wager the farm that the Cambrian "buy American types" (so I can remain getting overpaid...) never ever bought any of the US-made Zenith TV sets or stereos--the last dinosaur of the failed US consumer electronics industry that essentially died thirty years ago, although Zenith hung on as the sole US company for quite some time. Of course, the Japanese (and others in the Pacific Rim) TV sets were much less expensive and worked just as well or better. |
