  Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10446 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: That is why there are so many metro areas throughout the country adopting mass transit. Coincidentally enough those areas are seeing a lot of investment. But hey, everything in SE Michigan is rosy and money, jobs and investment are just growing on trees. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10447 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I would like to see some proof to back it up. Last time I was there the grounds and the island looked like crap and the games and rides weren't kept up. I suspect that had a lot to do with its demise. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3458 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You mean, like the 2-lane country roads that were running through Paradise Valley and the South Bronx? quote: Which is why every other large metropolitan area (other than Detroit) is INCREASING transit service. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3581 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Due to lack of business because of the problems mentioned. Public safety should be Job 1. Sstashmoo is correct in saying that mass transit with a high crime rate will not be effective. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 982 Registered: 09-2005 |
Of course, the black/white divide (or euphemistically, the city/suburb divide) in Metro Detroit is the primary reason why the area has poor mass transit. For years white leaders did not want to put money into black Detroit and black leaders did not want to put money into the white burbs. Throw in some "people from Detroit (euphemism for black) will take the train to your home and steal your stuff" (the reason why you probably moved away from Detroit in the first place) and no wonder there was little investment in transit. In less racially divided areas people tend to have -- and demand -- better transportation options. Heck, across the river Windsor and its burbs are teaming up to create a better mass transit system: http://www.canada.com/windsors tar/news/story.html?id=6be6dc4 4-12a4-4277-b5eb-c3ca1f6377d2 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10448 Registered: 10-2003 |
Proof please on Boblo. quote: Part of most mass transit systems have transit police. Please find another red herring. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3459 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ah, what's the use? The ideologues have made up their minds. If they don't want it, then it's not a good idea, right? I wonder what DC would look like if they decided back in the Sixties that $9 billion was "too much money for something no one will use". | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 |
Detroit's mass transit system needs a major makeover. I am dependent on public transportation due to low vision. I take the bus to work and home again. If there is anywhere else I need to go my wife will drive me there. I have used public transportation in Dayton, L.A. and Chicago and it was a good experience. I think the downtown area of Chicago was best but the buses in L.A. go so far south in the state that Greyhound should be out of business there. I went from San Francisco to L.A. and then to San Diego and only paid $2.50. What a deal! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1837 Registered: 04-2006 |
The highways of course were built based on demand as the 2 lane country roads became overcrowded. I still prefer the state highways and country roads myself. Funny, the U.S. Government said it built them for national defense purposes. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3583 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Apparently not here as the drivers are demanding law enforcement ride the buses to protect them and their passengers. When crime was rampant in NYC in the 80's no amount of transit cops were making the subways safe, ask anyone who lived there. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3584 Registered: 03-2006 |
I am not against expanding mass transit if it makes sense financially. But it needs to be based on demand on not the "build it and they will come" mentality that has caused so many failures of the past. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10449 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: And now Wayne County Sherriffs are on the buses. Again, you are comparing a problem bus system to efficient mass transit. I wouldn't expect such an easy concept to sink in so easily. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. What SE Michigan has is a broken bus sytem, not a mass transit solution. Has it sunk in yet? | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 505 Registered: 08-2007 |
Beyond the core, it's the same suburban shithole of automotive sewers as everywhere else. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but couldn't the same be said of DC? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 484 Registered: 02-2007 |
Oakgirl, It sure could and that would've been my response to what would DC look like without mass transit. Same just more cars. And probably fewer Mass transit related criminal activities. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2006 |
PG the biggest flaw in what you are saying is that there has to be mass demand first, but that rarely happens. Generally in a successful system it is built and ridership builds as people see that it is reliable, safe, and easy to use. You can't convince people that something will work without having an example. I think a good start would be a Woodward line, there would be good usage and it could be an example, as ridership builds and people see its a good thing more of the spoke roads could get lines until we have an actual system. I also think that for this to work SMART and DDOT should merger to make a Detroit Metro Transit Authority, improve the bus routes make them more clear, and improve the timing of that system. It can be done but we as a region must take a risk. Risks are what create failure but also success. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1838 Registered: 04-2006 |
It sure could and that would've been my response to what would DC look like without mass transit. Same just more cars. And probably fewer Mass transit related criminal activities. It wouldn't have the density and urban renewal that's been going on there for the last 15-20 years. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 540 Registered: 11-2006 |
What about car related crime, theft, car jackings, accidents. There is no perfectly safe form of transportation, you just have to weigh which is best for what your doing and the time you are doing it. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2687 Registered: 07-2004 |
Franky jt1 I am too weary to respond.That may sound like a cop out and maybe it even is.But I am tired of the semantics.The poster said Saginaw is much more violent and crime ridden than Detroit.I said that was a lie.It was a lie.Crime in Detroit consistently rates at the top; so how is it possible for Saginaw to be much worse???......the answe is it isn't.Bu that just goes to the fundamental dishonesty of this forum. You chime in with how full of shit I am about how "walkable" Ann Arbor is............forgive me but I don't care what you think or what the agenda wants me to think. I know A2, I have been to a fair # of places and compared to any of them with emphasis on any A2 is as good or better. As for danindc I appreciate your contributions.But you look pretty ugly when you trash A2_ especially since you went to school here..........believe it or not there is a resentment here about those that come in use the area, go to the univ and then move away and trash it on a forum. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 506 Registered: 08-2007 |
It sure could and that would've been my response to what would DC look like without mass transit. Same just more cars. And probably fewer Mass transit related criminal activities. It wouldn't have the density and urban renewal that's been going on there for the last 15-20 years. I just don't know that DC is a fair comparison; it's density can be attributed to it being the locus of federal govt.; therefore, it will always have a strong employment and tourism base that feeds a need to maintain superior public transit. We don't have that de facto base. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10450 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I posted the FBI crime stats which show that Saginaw is more violent. Not too hard to understand. The lists that Detroit usually tops is for cities over a certain size and Saginaw does not fall into that. I am not saying Detroit is not violent. I am saying that you call someone a liar regardless of the facts the FBI presents. Therein lies your typical attitude. You call someone a liar. I present you with stats from the FBI that say otherwise and you still hold yo your nonsense. Either you are an idiot or you can convince yourself of anything. I suggest you contact the FBI and tell them they are supplying false numbers as you obviously know better. quote: As long as you believe that it must be true. Of course you will just call me a liar or claim that I follow an agenda because you have limited number of places that you can walk to from your location. AA is a great city. I would not argue otherwise. It just isn't as walkable in all areas as you claim. It's funny how my opinion of AA is irrelevant to you because of how long you have lived there but you are always here with your opinion of Detroit, which you have never lived in. (Message edited by jt1 on October 10, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1839 Registered: 04-2006 |
I just don't know that DC is a fair comparison; it's density can be attributed to it being the locus of federal govt.; therefore, it will always have a strong employment and tourism base that feeds a need to maintain superior public transit. We don't have that de facto base. True, it did/does have the de facto tourism and employment base, but outside of the Capitol Hill/tourist areas, D.C. was pretty much on par with many of the ghetto areas of Detroit during the 80s and 90s. Remember, this is the city that initially coined the phrase "Murder Capital". The D.C. I remember visiting in the 90s looks nothing like (outside of the Capitol Hill area) the one I visited earlier this year. I wholeheartedly believe that the rapid pace of gentrification going on is by and large a result of the presence of the transit system. Then when you look at how property is valued there (i.e. how far it is from a metro station), it's even more clear. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10451 Registered: 10-2003 |
For CL again: 2006 crime stats from the FBI. Violent crimes per 1000 residents. Detroit: 24.19 Saginaw: 29.85 Now if I remember my grade school math well enough 29.85 is greater than 24.19. Please correct me if I am wrong. If not shoudl I contact the FBI and tell them that CL said they are wrong. **I am not saying either city should be proud of such high violent crime numbers** | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4257 Registered: 10-2004 |
One doesn't need to possess much in brain power to realize that if Detroit had the "paper-pushing" industry of the federal government, it too would improve. But, it's the other way around--Detroit is still losing jobs and will lose far more for the foreseeable future. Those who say that Michigan's employment situation is improving or on its way to recovery are probably flat broke now after their purchasing all those bridges and things that the gullible do. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10453 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Not too often do I agree with LY. We still haven't seen the full effects of all the auto buyouts. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2689 Registered: 07-2004 |
The declaration was that Saginaw was much worse than detroit.......that is a lie. Here is another example of the dishonesty of this forum: Iheart scoffs and ridicules my contention that the norwest or nortown closed due to crime.He/she states it was to clear the land to build a fast food restaurant. That is pure crap. It floundered and closed and went to shit(the bldg) because as the blog I linked stated(as did the news articles at the time)of persistent crime in the area. Eventually someone else will post about how disillusioned myself and a few others are and the truth gets waylayed. As for A2 I could easily exist without my car.I just happen to like driving.But if a definition of walkable is being car free I could easily do it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10455 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I will search for the thread but I believe that you said that Saginaw being more violent was a lie which it is not. It can also be argued that having a 20% higher rate of violent crime is much higher. That may be the root where we disagree. I agree that you could live without a car in AA much easier than anywhere in SE Michigan. That is more a credit to the efficiency of AATA (a great system), not so much from walking. Maybe that is why we see things different. If there is a community in the region that you could survive easiest with walking, biking and bus service it would be AA but I attribute that to some areas that are very walkable and a great AATA system. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10456 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: This is the telling part. quote: | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 507 Registered: 08-2007 |
I wholeheartedly believe that the rapid pace of gentrification going on is by and large a result of the presence of the transit system. Then when you look at how property is valued there (i.e. how far it is from a metro station), it's even more clear. I think this is a good indicator that the city core is expanding, but I suspect there are more variables beyond transit. Without the presence of the government, DC could have easily become another Detroit. It's easy to see areas gentrify when there's a stable foundation for doing so. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3460 Registered: 10-2003 |
DC WAS another Detroit in the 1980s!••• Shit--the crack trade was PERFECTED here. DC tanked for at least FORTY YEARS, even with the presence of the federal government, which you all think props the city up so much. Do you people NOT READ, or are you willfully stupid??? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1841 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think this is a good indicator that the city core is expanding, but I suspect there are more variables beyond transit. Without the presence of the government, DC could have easily become another Detroit. It's easy to see areas gentrify when there's a stable foundation for doing so. But just as well, the American auto industry had a good time in the 90s but Detroit did not benefit from it's presence. I think the federal government could have continued operated around the city of Washington as it has in the past. |
