  Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4289 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hey! Blame the public-sector employees for their mileage errors. I work in the private sector. You needn't go back too many years to be around people who easily understood how to read road signs... But again, Detroit didn't always have 2/3 of its adult residents being functionally illiterate as today. Being literate leads to even more knowledge being gained--and much more rapidly. And TK: My bark's worse than my bite; so relax. It's merely an Internet forum--free expression of ideas, opinions, and all that. Youse Brits curse your Queen and do worse, last I heard. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on October 11, 2007) | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2003 |
lol, you still around all happy and everything | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 986 Registered: 09-2005 |
^Maybe Michigan should be pumping more money into Detroit's public schools.... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3672 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Yeah, giving teachers better benefits and smaller class sizes will solve the problem. Of course we have plenty of money laying around to spend too. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1361 Registered: 02-2006 |
Chicago O'Hare is about 16.5 miles from the Loop by car, just over 17 miles by rail. Takes about 50-55 minutes due to deteriorated track, should take 40-45. Chicago Midway is about 9 miles from the Loop by car, and about 10.5 via rail. Takes 30 minutes. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1793 Registered: 10-2006 |
If you build light rail, development will come! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4293 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:And if you don't, the amount of development would be the same. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 991 Registered: 09-2005 |
(sorry for the aside).... Paul, how is Charlotte's light rail project proceeding? Are there any updates on the proposed rail light between Raleigh and Durham? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1922 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Because light rail is more cost effective to operate than buses and will be faster and more comfortable. One LRT vehicle can hold many times more passengers than one bus, so that one driver is more productive. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3691 Registered: 03-2006 |
Rail may indeed be nicer and more comfortable, I am sure an Escalade would be more comfortable than my Jeep. We must delude ourselves and pretend that money is no object. I am not seeing too many ideas as to how a system would be funded. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 423 Registered: 01-2004 |
Livernoisyard: I am not British; I am an American from Michigan (St. Joe). However, I have been living over here while completing a master’s degree at Oxford, thus my English residence. I am excited to say that I will be returning to the US soon, as I graduate October 20th, and I will make sure to reacquaint myself with Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1854 Registered: 04-2006 |
A bus holds roughly 40 people, whereas a NYC subway train holds a little more than 2,000... How much does it cost to purchase enough buses to hold 2,000 people? How much does it cost to purchase one subway train? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4297 Registered: 10-2004 |
Granholm's a Canadian, but that doesn't keep her from pretending that she's one of us... | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1363 Registered: 02-2006 |
If it can't be funded, it won't be built. Yet, somehow we find money for unneeded expansions of the highway system. Why build I-94 when you had an 8-lane Gratiot in place? Why build I-75 with a 8-10-lane Woodward in place? Why build I-96 with Grand River in place, complete with reversible traffic lanes? IDOT in Illinois is wrapping up a rebuild of the Dan Ryan in Chicago...budgeted amount: $550 million. Actual amount, current estimate: $975 million. Then there's the Prairie Parkway in rural Chicagoland, which is unwanted even by those who live in the area. http://www.sprawlway.org/ This is a perfect example. Instead of adding lanes to an already-existing state road a few miles away, IDOT will build a $280 million 5-mile long freeway to nowhere. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3692 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: It is a little more complicated than that. You have to build the entire system from scratch, it will cost many millions of dollars. Where is that going to come from? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1923 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Did you read my post? Light rail is cheaper to operate than busses. The city can take some of the money that it has been using for years to purchase busses periodically, get a significant match from the feds, and save money over the long term by running LRT instead of busses. Add the increased land values (and therefore property taxes) over time, and it is financially stupid for the city not to do this. (Message edited by jsmyers on October 11, 2007) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3467 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Uh, the federal government? That's where other cities get capital for transit projects, and that's where SEMCOG got $100 million for the commuter rail study. Here's what I love, though. Someone is going to point out that there is no matching money in Michigan, because tax revenues are low, because people are out of work or underemployed. Yet the same person will gladly ignore that constructing a transit system requires warm bodies to do so. (Message edited by DaninDC on October 11, 2007) | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3693 Registered: 03-2006 |
Uh, why don't we have it already then? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3468 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Because your political leadership, frankly, sucks. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3694 Registered: 03-2006 |
Meaning who? Levin and Stabenow? Granholm? Kilpatrick? Or should we use the default answer and blame George bush? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1364 Registered: 02-2006 |
I don't blame the political leadership. Well, not entirely. Their constituency (made up of people overwhelmingly like PG) has no interest in it. So therefore, no one wants their name on the big board voting yes. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4298 Registered: 10-2004 |
Simple economics: The city is essentially broke because it has to borrow over $100 million most years. The three counties are not rolling in cash. The state is broke--and most everybody recognizes that. So who will pay for rapid transit? The Feds will pay for up to 60% of the capital costs and, most likely, none of the annual operating costs. So, the localities and the state would have to pony up big time. Half of Michigan live in three/four SE Michigan counties. At least half of those won't want rapid transit if it were put up to a vote for them to pay for it. And the other half of Michigan won't want to pay even a dime, period! So, at best, there would be three opponents for one proponent for rapid transit if others will be tapped for the $ billions. The proponents ALWAYS lowball these kinds of boondoggles. So whatever they say about how much it'll cost, figure on it being two or three times that to pay for eventually. Mayor Soglin had lowballed super big-time Madison's bus system back during the 1970s in like manner. Other municipalities have done likewise. That's how these lying SOBs operate their games in order to suck in the citizens. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1365 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: Ahem, quote: | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1924 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'll give you a few: Criag DeRoche, Nancy Cassis, and LBP. But to some extent, those 4 are part of the problem too. GWB may have some policies that aren't helping Detroit, but I don't think you can hang transit on him. If you do, you have to hang the difficulty in funding transit in general, nationwide on him. But Michigan isn't keeping up with the rest of the nation, so I don't blame GWB one bit. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 639 Registered: 03-2006 |
LY, That is some pretty broad speculation...and that ratio of proponents to opponents sounds like funny math (Message edited by apbest on October 11, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4299 Registered: 10-2004 |
Simple way to find out is put it to an advisory, nonbinding referendum--involving all affected taxpaying parties. My prediction: it will be trounced. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1925 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'll think you'll find that most recent transit projects have been finished under budget, perhaps in response to mistakes decades ago like those LY mentions. To me it is partially an issue of spending more resources on something that is important for the future, but it is also an issue of spending the money we already spend more efficiently. The current situation on Woodward is not an efficient way to run transit. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1795 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Paul, how is Charlotte's light rail project proceeding?" The rail line between uptown Charlotte and Pineville is to be opening in a month. I do critique the part of the budget that they spent on the artwork. Seems that rail should be functional only. There is little reason to spend money on art for it. It isn't as though one rides the elevated in Chicago and sees public artwork as part of the rail project. Nonetheless, the rail corridor is bringing in many new development projects centered around each of its stops. They are mixed use, dense, and for today's generation (as opposed to the misguided suburban generation). Check out page 15 in this PDF: http://www.vhsr.com/system/fil es/John+Muth+PE+Presentation.p df http://www.southeastrebusiness .com/articles/OCT06/snapshot1. html http://www.greenhawkpartners.c om/documents/20061106%20CLT%20 Biz%20Journal%20-%20More%20mix ed%20use%20for%20South%20End.p df http://www2.nccommerce.com/ecl ipsfiles/13212.pdf http://charlotte.bizjournals.c om/charlotte/stories/2004/08/0 9/story5.html http://www.masstransitmag.com/ web/online/Top-Transit-News/De velopers-Put-Business-on-the-L ight-Rail-Line-/3$4542 http://www.charlotte.com/171/v -print/story/309140.html Sure one can argue that these developments are simply a product of the growth of Charlotte, but the light rail has most definitely created an ideal location for them. So all in all this shows that light rail is desired and one of the most desireable places to live and develop. The rail has begun to transform a "corridor of crap" (to quote the mayor of Charlotte) from one of light industrial and strip mall usage to one of a much better use. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1855 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well, let's start some calculations! So one city transit bus costs about $300,000 and holds say 40 people. One new subway car costs about 10 cars/train x 40 people/bus x 50 buses (to carry 2,000 people) x $300,000/bus = $600M per 2,000 people (or 50 buses) No wonder transit runs at a loss! Buses also have to be replaced a lot more often than trains... *Using PGm's "inflation calculator"... (Message edited by iheartthed on October 11, 2007) | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1796 Registered: 10-2006 |
P.S. Charlotte's ridership (system wide) is about 57,00 per day, just an FYI. |
