Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » Atlanta water source nearly dry « Previous Next »
Archive through October 12, 2007Gistok30 10-12-07  4:38 pm
Archive through October 13, 2007Detroitrise30 10-13-07  3:43 pm
Archive through October 16, 2007Oakmangirl30 10-16-07  12:48 pm
  ClosedNew threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.        

Top of pageBottom of page

Mikie
Member
Username: Mikie

Post Number: 99
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Bill Richardson retreats on sharing Midwest water"

From the Free Press today.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2007710160402
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 413
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

maybe we can send them Detroit bottled water at .75 a bottle.
in fact i may do this myself, any investors out there?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 283
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Ice Mountain.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 344
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm, quite frankly , Canada is involved in this whole issue on bordering waters as much as the U.S. . Nothing can be done about any water ownership, diversion, selling etc unless you have the Canadians agree. I still say this whole area should use this to its advantage the same way the sun states used it to attract business and population, In the long run what do you want, a warm January or water to live with.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 415
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan should not start using geopolitic threats in determining our best interests in the water debate. What should be done by our great legislators is to have a stricter law enforced on riparian water rights and quantify the drainage from our state.

This is a 100% legal form of protecting Michigan's assets.

It confounds me that no action has been taken a lot sooner on this issue. ( well i guess big business giving donations may ascend that)

WE also have Wisconson, Canada, Illinois, Ohio New York to deal with.

Jokingly i say, Why don't we divert the water ourselves in Michigan to a MASSIVE lake reservoir and then resell it to the most desperate state for a huge profit before the other states can steal it!
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 285
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"WE also have Wisconson, Canada, Illinois, Ohio New York to deal with."

Don't Forget Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Indiana.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 420
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not MORE states, what a legal wrangle.
imo, screw all of em, it's out water now.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2949
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today one of the newschannels had a reporter standing in what used to be Lake Lanier, Atlanta's water reservoir. There was talk of potentially having to restrict large scale commercial users of water if the situation doesn't improve soon. I wonder if Coca-Cola has an unusually large bottling operation there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 286
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I wonder if Coca-Cola has an unusually large bottling operation there."

Who cares. Michigan is the only state where Coke Doesn't outsell anyone. It sucks anyway.

Naturally, I would assume since their headquartered in Atlanta that they would have a huge presence there. However, it's only a small percentage of their market I'm sure.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 6691
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah! If other states want our water, they better move to Michigan and live here. All the fresh clean water you can drink. The Great Lakes belong to Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York City and Canada and no one is going to bring a big pipe and suck our water dry.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 287
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York City and Canada"

Don't forget Minnesota :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 288
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, and let me poin tout. CANADA doesn't own the Great Lakes, but technically only Ontario does. I believe we can sucker them in pretty easily if we needed something.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1838
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They need to do some enforcement, like timed meters on major users."
The City of Charlotte water police have issued about 1,000 tickets since restrictions began about 2 months ago. First fine is $100, second is $300, and third is $500. After the fifth one, they shut off your water. BTW, all of the fines are applied directly to your water bill.

"Naturally, I would assume since their headquartered in Atlanta that they would have a huge presence there. However, it's only a small percentage of their market I'm sure."
yeah, it is their corp. HQ, but their bottling takes place in other areas of the country.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 2111
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm currently in metro Detroit from Vegas to steal your water. However, I found Lakes Michigan, Huron, Superior, and Erie so well guarded that I could not drop the pipeline in. So I'm off to Lake Ontario and will pump it out from there. I'm sure that will meet with the approval of folks in Michigan.

Man, that pipe is heavy! :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1839
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well if you won't give us all water down here in the SE, at least send some rain!

(Message edited by charlottepaul on October 18, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 5189
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

While that might be popular in Nevada, it struck a nerve in the Midwest. "Hell no," Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Friday.




<<<laffin


You go Jenny...
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10532
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would expect an elected official to be a little more diplomatic with a response.
Top of pageBottom of page

Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs

Post Number: 201
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Frankly, I liked the response.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1634
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think I feel differently about Atlanta than I do Phoenix or Las Vegas. There's no water in the SW. Its the desert. Everyone knows this.

With Atlanta, it isn't like that part of the country doesn't get rain/water. They get plenty of it, usually. Its just that for some reason that area isn't getting it right now and they're in a huge problem. But I would suspect that the rain will eventually come back, fill the lakes back up, and things will be OK again. There isn't ever gonna be enough rain in Phoenix or Las Vegas to meet their needs.

With that said, I think I'd be open to assisting the Southeast on a temporary basis. Just until the drought ends. But never a permanent, pipeline type solution.

Of course not only is political clout shifting south and west, that's already where most of the tax money goes anyway. Most of the states that get more in taxes back than they pay are S and W. Most of the states paying more than they get are in the N and E. Maybe if we had some of that money we could rejuvenate the economy, or improve quality of life issues, or hire more cops or have better transit, etc. I do think it is a stacked deck and awfully hypocritical that there are states with gleaming new infrastructure and low local tax rates while we pay and get less for it. then on top of that, the gleaming infrastructure and low-taxes are incentives to attract even MORE people from our areas and to theirs. Talk about win, win, win for them and lose lose lose for us.

Guess it ties back by saying they have increasing political clout, more money, are known for "growth and opportunity" while we up north are "dying, declining, and getting poorer". With that said, I think there is WAY WAY too much clout up here and in Canada for them to ever be able to do anything meaningful to get our water. Add too it we might actually get the support of environmentalists from California and elsewhere and I think we should be okay.

Though what about those environmentalists living in Phoenix.....hmmmm.....that's a real Al Gore-big-house-fancy-plane-or- global-warming type dilemma there :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

English
Member
Username: English

Post Number: 592
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Global warming and peak oil will take care of all this, folks. Stay tuned!
Top of pageBottom of page

Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 827
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was a big drought in the southeast in the 80s, too. I remember the UP farmers sent hay down for the livestock. It was so dry they couldn't even grow hay down there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Peachlaser
Member
Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 133
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have been reading another interesting and great thread on this site.

Question?

Can any of the Lakers and Saltys haul fresh water? : )
Top of pageBottom of page

Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 3566
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought they use water as ballast. Hence the invasive species problem.

Wait. Are you suggesting we go into the water business? Hmmmm.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5543
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they should set up a pipeline near where the St. Lawrence River empties into the Atlantic, and share the revenue with the states and provinces that border the Great Lakes (including Quebec). With the warming of the polar ice caps, too much fresh water is getting into the oceans anyway.

That way they could get Great Lakes water just before it empties into the ocean, thus not affecting the already low lake levels. On the minus side... that idea requires a much longer pipeline from the northeast to the southwest.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1230
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Capital and operating costs for pumping Great Lakes water long distances through pipelines would be better spent on building seawater desalination plants closer to the needy users and pumping the output over much shorter distances and lower elevations.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 2123
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What Mikeg just said. Couldn't agree more.

At the DetroitYes meeting I attended Thursday night, I told the gang I was in town to take water back to Vegas. And they all agreed I could take all I could carry.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 1467
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are many desalination projects underway here in the SW. Here in NM, we're looking at smaller projects (local community or subdivision sized) to desalinate brackish ground water from several hundred feet down. Initial tests have been successful. Texas is planning a large desalination project on the Gulf coast, and Arizona and California have test projects on Baja, all designed to serve large areas in their states. I don't know where Nevada is in all of this.

Our illustrious Governor put his foot in his mouth with his stupid comments. He continues to slip further and seems now to be contending for the VP nomination (or Secy State if a Dem is elected).
Top of pageBottom of page

Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1912
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's an in depth NYT article about the water situation out West:

The Future Is Drying Up
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 443
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i guess our wonderful governor is too blind to take advantage of this business opportunity
Top of pageBottom of page

Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 837
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Business opportunity, it is not. To do away with the region's water would be to limit its potential. Those who want to live where there is no water must learn to live within their water means. They have already managed to hijack water from distant regions while maintaining water gardens, golf courses, lawns and swimming pools in the desert. It is time for a national policy of responsibility for environmental conservation, and encouraging each region to develop along the environmental limitations of the area rather than relying on forcing other regions to give up water that their environment depends upon.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 1469
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is an account of the Colorado River issues:
http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/ arroyo/101comm.html

This is about Rio Grande river issues:
http://academic.emporia.edu/sc hulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/C orley/geowat.html

We also have concerns here in NM because, under 60 year old agreements and Supreme Court cases, we owe Texas a share of the water from our watersheds. There are also uncertainties about what water the Navajo Nation and some Pueblos are entitled to receive (although some of those were settled earlier this year). It is exceedingly difficult to convince folks to change the way they have irrigated their crops for hundreds of years.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 451
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gazhekwe - agreed, but, (btw whats gazhekwe?)
the Biz Opp i am referring to is drawing businesses that have to depend on a steady supply of h20 witout worry or interruption; kind of like Auto companies need steady supply of labor to kick out cars.

Has anyone noticed how LOW Lake St Clair is now? Way lower than at the beginning of summer.
Is someone skimming Michigan's water profits without us knowing about it???

I think this need a full blown blue ribbon task force investigation at the highest levels.

i saw the hoover dam, the water levels on the rock walls, you could see them like tree rings, were so f-ing low, at least 100 feet from before was wild.

(Message edited by lefty2 on October 21, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 838
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Georgian Bay Association has sponsored a study that found the dredging of the St. Clair River without appropriate baffles to slow the flow has contributed to increased drainage through there. Of course, it is being disputed but they are pursuing a petition to add baffles to slow down the loss.

Gazhekwe = catwoman, or maybe not.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2971
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

the Biz Opp i am referring to is drawing businesses that have to depend on a steady supply of h20 without worry or interruption


Such as? Remember, the water has to stay in the Great Lakes basin.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 462
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With all due respect I disagree.

The Dept of army corps of engineers dredged the St Clair river so that it doubled the amount of water flowing out of the great lakes.

They dredged past the clay bottom which caused massive errosion in our Great Lakes. What has our government done about this NOTHING!http://www.treehugger.com/file s/2007/08/update_on_lake.php

John coined that name for the former Lake Superior in his earlier post on its falling water levels; now the New York Times tells us why. It appears that it may not be climate change or declining snow melt in Canada, but the Army Corps of Engineers, renowned also for their levee design and maintenance in New Orleans. Starting in the mid sixties, they dredged and widened the St. Clair river between Lake Huron and Lake Erie. The Times says: The flow may be eroding the riverbed. The erosion may in turn result in increased outflow, more than can be replenished by rain or snowmelt, according to a study by a group of Canadian coastal engineers. If the new estimates are correct, 2.5 billion gallons a year are being lost through the expanded parts of the St. Clair, roughly the equivalent of the amount diverted annually for Chicago’s needs.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.