  Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 134 Registered: 05-2007 |
The repo man is about to take back 1001 Woodward. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20071016/METRO /710160369&theme=Metro-Detroit -Renaissance | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2003 |
They barely did any marketing/PR. They didn't even have a model, a real sales center or collateral. These could have been a hot sell if they would've gotten to the point of actually selling. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6103 Registered: 11-2004 |
Prime location too. Too bad. It would've been some prime housing in the area. Let's hope someone picks it up. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 6534 Registered: 10-2003 |
Business as usual in Downtown Detroit, buy cheap (with others' dollars), sell high, if not, bail. | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 399 Registered: 08-2004 |
I'm so glad they tore down the rest of the block to build a parking garage for this failed project. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2518 Registered: 11-2003 |
Probably another victim of the financing crunch. I was in Jackson,Mi the other day, front page article on foreclosures - 62 in 1995 and 950 so far in 2007. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2419 Registered: 06-2006 |
"They barely did any marketing/PR." The amount of marketing they did...running ads on Detroit News.com, holding pre-sales events, building a pretty cool website, etc...should have been more than sufficient for a project of this type... I think we just need to face the fact that the downtown residential market isn't as hot as everyone was hoping... | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 131 Registered: 06-2005 |
I think the problem was that it was yet another for-sale development. The downtown market is saturated with higher-end for sale units. I think had they been a lease development it would have been a different story altogether. Think about it: your first few waves of people interested in paying for a $200-300k condo have already come. There is a whole market for $900-1300 per month rent that really isn't being served in that district. Look at how successful Lofts at Merchant's Row or Kales have been. Bring more people down there to live, even on a lease basis, the area stops being such a ghost town after 6 and shops stay open, then the market for more high end purchases firms up. I don't remember where that housing study the city did for the downtown area is, but I distinctly remember it saying the rental market for the "urban pioneers" or something like that was much larger than that for high-end condos. | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 319 Registered: 08-2006 |
This thing was in the works long before the Griswold but that didnt stop the Griswold from selling most if not all its units. I dont think the people involved knew what they were doing at all. I did get a kick out of the article where it stated that Quicken might not want to move to the Hudsons site if 1001 Woodward is sitting there empty and blighted, but would have no problem going in between the David Whitney and UA Theater. | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 132 Registered: 06-2005 |
Fair point. But the fact is that the Griswold was put on the fast track by its developer. How long did it take for it to sell out between announcement and sales launch? Take that against how long 1001 went without having a functional website. I think they just killed their own momentum by dragging their feet and didn't get to the market by the time the higher end sale market started to soften. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1470 Registered: 12-2004 |
Seems like the developer blew this one. I've heard plenty of builders discuss the continuing demand for residences downtown, including higher-end residences. The Book-Cadillac and Griswold don't seem to be having any trouble... | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 259 Registered: 09-2007 |
The building though just doesn't seem right for residential units. It looks more like a prime building for corporate development. Go ahead, let them repo it and maybe they can come up with a better use for it. | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 133 Registered: 06-2005 |
I just look at The Ellington and Park Shelton's vacancies when I'm thinking about the market. Does anyone know how full Crystal Lofts or Mid Med are? It just seems like the purchase market ain't what she used to be for condos downtown and there aren't really that many serving the lease market. Just my two cents. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2803 Registered: 10-2003 |
The problem is the building itself. It's in a middle no-mans land between the types of property a downtown buyer would really want. People are willing to pay the $250 a Sq/Ft for a rehab of an old building. They are willing to pay for new construction with balconies and opening windows. They are not willing to pay that price to go into a relatively modern office building with no balconies and no opening windows. It's a crippled building. It lacks the ambiance of a historic building or the amenities of a new building. It's also competing against the potential of new construction on the riverfront. There is still a large potential market for loft purchases downtown. No lofts have been sold yet in the CBD. The closest you can purchase at the moment is in Riverfront towers, Lafayette park, Corktown or Brush park. Nothing in the CBD has transferred to the primary residents. To write off the market before there is even any product delivered is a little premature. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 400 Registered: 07-2007 |
i wonder about all the other housing projects on the board, i hope banks still want to lend to them with this hanging in the air. | ||
Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 1012 Registered: 11-2003 |
i agree with ndavies and detroit rise. my friends and i would always pass by the building and say "great location, horrible building to live in" top it off with proposed super expensive pricing? not going to be an easy sell. at best you will have to put mixed use in that building. apts for lease and try to lure some regional corporation there and build to suit. however, it still looks like the ernest young building next door is having difficulty filling their vacancy. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1876 Registered: 04-2006 |
however, it still looks like the ernest young building next door is having difficulty filling their vacancy. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere recently that the Ernst & Young building was nearly fully leased, no? | ||
Mikie Member Username: Mikie Post Number: 98 Registered: 06-2006 |
You're correct iheartthed, the Ernest & Young building is 100% leased, I belive that the last occupants will be moving in this fall. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6683 Registered: 02-2004 |
What a waste! There are other DOOMED to FAILURE condos and loft projects in Detroit due to RED TAPE! Let the previous owner have the First Federal building. It's theirs for the taking. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 799 Registered: 10-2003 |
Southen, are you sure the Griswold is nearly sold out? Last i heard they had presale agreements on approximately half the units. What are the latest figures for the Griswold? I know the Book Cadillac condos have all but 2 sold. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2421 Registered: 06-2006 |
"It just seems like the purchase market ain't what she used to be for condos downtown" Yeah, because the people who were buying them were people who couldn't really afford them, but we being approved for subprime loans anyways... now that the rubber stamp approvals for people with bad credit has been cut off, the demand for these type of projects is going to drop like you won't beleive | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 511 Registered: 03-2007 |
i remain optomistic that this project will be picked up. If you can't live in the book Caddilac, it certainly is cool to live close. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1878 Registered: 04-2006 |
Yeah, because the people who were buying them were people who couldn't really afford them, but we being approved for subprime loans anyways... now that the rubber stamp approvals for people with bad credit has been cut off, the demand for these type of projects is going to drop like you won't beleive You're basing this off of...? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2423 Registered: 06-2006 |
"You're basing this off of...?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2 007_Subprime_mortgage_financia l_crisis http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/1 0/real_estate/Top_ten_cities_f or_foreclosures/index.htm?post version=2006111009 http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070919/U PDATE/709190450 | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2804 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: This comment makes no sense at all. Once again for the people not paying attention. There has not been a single condo sold in the Central business district. Not a single one, ever. The Riverfront towers are the closest thing. There are purchase orders out for the BC, Griswold and Vinton. But there has not been a single sale yet. How could the market be any worse now than for the zero condos that have been sold in the past. This is a brand new market with absolutely no history. People buying $200/ SqFt condos generally are not in the subprime market. Most of us earn enough to easily afford a $400,000 condo. Just because you and your low life friends can't afford it doesn't mean other people can't. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1881 Registered: 04-2006 |
But what's selling in downtown Detroit is high density development... kinda the same type of thing that's selling in Manhattan- a market that's gone virtually unaffected by the subprime crisis. My theory is that Manhattan has been unaffected primarily due to the type of buyer that it attracts, which I suspect is similar to the type of buyer that is buying into downtown Detroit now. IMO, the biggest threat to Detroit right now is the tightening on financing to fund more of these rehab projects. | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 134 Registered: 06-2005 |
This critique makes no sense at all. My argument was that there was a diminished demand for condos in the downtown area, encompassing CBD and surrounding areas and flat sales in an ugly office building weren't surprising. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 632 Registered: 08-2006 |
So if I cant afford a 400k condo im a low life??? A recent article stated 6 out 10 people in Michigan cant afford a $170000 house. Sure are a lot of low lifes around here. Based on what kind of home I can afford I must be pond scum! | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 920 Registered: 11-2003 |
Lots of factors have contributed to this failure. But, IMHO, the developer missed the mark on the price point for the project. (The price points were closer to $300 sq ft and above, not $200 sq. ft., a big difference) Yes, the building has attached parking. Yes, the spaces and the views are spectacular. And, yes, it's located next to Campus Martius. But the prime units were topping $600k and that market is pretty thin these days in SE Michigan, not to mention within Detroit itself. It's hard to believe that they had to go to $300 sq. ft. to make a decent return when they only paid $4.7 million for the building. Sometimes developers in an emerging market have to provide less expensive product and concede a certain amount of the eventual profit (through market appreciation) to their buyers who are also taking on a fair amount of risk. Hopefully the building won't close, although that could happen if DTE can't be satisfied. Don't expect any progress on this building now until after the Book Cadillac and Griswold (fingers crossed) come on line. Skittish lenders are going to have to see other big projects succeed first. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10507 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: How exactly do your links apply to downtown specifically? I'm not too sure if you realized it but the demograhic of the downtown/midtown crowd isn't the same as the rest of the city or the rest of the region. I'm sure that it was not your intent but your comment seems to imply that the people that bought downtown/midtown were the dummies that all took out subprime or over-extended themselves. Not a very fair generalization my any stretch. |
