  Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 252 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dating back to as early as 1941, Detroit's Freeways are without a doubt the oldest urban freeways in the world. While our freeways have had many detrimental effects--many of them too well-known and too long-winded to list here--it cannot be denied that the freeways are now a permanent part of the fabric of the city. And as much as they divide communities, THE SYSTEM WORKS. Detroiters can get around their metropolis pretty quickly (IF they have a car), all thanks to the freeways. The huge number of freeways and spurs within 5 miles of the CBD allows for easy travel around this sprawling city. And many times, the freeways are beautiful works of engineering--their soaring spans, their graceful stacks of ramps and bridges, their intricate interchanges. Other times, they are ugly, costly, and major impediments to foot traffic. They are smelly, loud, and polluted. They took the transit focus away from trains and put it on cars and buses. The construction of I-94 destroyed my mom's childhood home, and a lot of other people's homes and businesses. Not to mention how much traffic sucks... etc etc etc. However... I'll be honest with you all, and this may require ignoring for a moment all the societal and historical implications of the freeways' construction: Gliding through the concrete canyon of the Lodge at 65+mph, below the city, hurtling around curves and under bridges, grabbing this on-ramp or that off-ramp and rising up from the bottom of the canyon to be greeted with a view of the skyline--it is really a thrilling experience. It's part of the Detroit Freeway experience, an experience a lot of us on this forum go through every day. It's all part of the much larger Detroit experience that we know and love. Here is a chance to show some photos or share some thoughts about the freeways that define our city and our region. Share your best shots, or your favorite historical photos of the freeways you love -- or love to hate.  I-375 at Warren Ave.  I-96 at the Southfield Freeway  I-75, view from Tiger Stadium pedestrian bridge  I-96 at the Southfield Freeway all photos from my flickr From Wayne:  Historical - night on the Lodge  Historical - Opening the Lodge  Historical - Trains over the Lodge | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 323 Registered: 08-2006 |
I like the thread Geoff. Great shots as usual. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 1197 Registered: 02-2007 |
wow | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 916 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow, like that last one. Notice the narrow grass median and no crash rails. Amazing. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 284 Registered: 09-2007 |
And you know the funny thing in addition to old-fart freeways is that we also have 6 old fart Avenues that go to nowhere. As I have mentioned many times, you never have to worry about Traffic with Detroit's street grid. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 265 Registered: 01-2007 |
Where would that train be crossing? West Grand Blvd., down by Michigan Central? (Message edited by jrvass on October 17, 2007) | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1178 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's crossing just south of W. Grand by the New Center-- spotting feature, old Nabisco building on right. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1179 Registered: 11-2003 |
Also, I'm not sure that Detroit had the first urban freeways in the world. The Willow Run Expwy. was completed in 1942. I think NY City or some place in California had surface-level freeways a bit before that. The Davison is probably the oldest *depressed* urban freeway. It depends on how you define "freeway," too. | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 400 Registered: 08-2004 |
The Autobahn was started in the 30's | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 665 Registered: 05-2005 |
I've always thought of expensiveways as "automobile sewers". They are hideously polluted, dangerous places that have rained down death on Americans like a 13th-century plague. They have divided and destroyed vibrant streets, neighborhoods and communities. Erased important parts of our history. And have dramatically increased our "slave to a metal box" culture. All at monumental expense. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1215 Registered: 11-2003 |
^ so I guess it's safe to assume you don't drive on them? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1897 Registered: 04-2006 |
A picture is worth 12 words... Look at how vibrant all the areas surrounding those freeways have remained! | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 222 Registered: 06-2007 |
Man, wheres the guy that used to identify all the 50's cars? He'd have a field day with some of those.I dig that bulletnose in the last pic. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 466 Registered: 11-2003 |
Iheartthed, you are being sarcastic? | ||
Ookpik Member Username: Ookpik Post Number: 342 Registered: 01-2007 |
Larger View Ookpik | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1898 Registered: 04-2006 |
>Iheartthed, you are being sarcastic? Of course. | ||
Mallory Member Username: Mallory Post Number: 203 Registered: 05-2006 |
Excellent pictures, Gsgeorge. For those of us who are former Detroiters, they bring back many great memories. I guess I'm saying that being stuck in traffic was a good memory. Go figure. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1837 Registered: 10-2006 |
"the Detroit Freeway experience" A new tourist attraction? | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 1070 Registered: 11-2003 |
Circle the CBD 'till you puke! Jefferson, 75/375, Lodge. Jefferson 75/375, Lodge | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 810 Registered: 08-2007 |
"I dig that bulletnose in the last pic." I believe that is a 50 Studebaker. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1509 Registered: 07-2004 |
Those are some outstanding photographs. It's interesting to note that Americans have generally been more taken with images of freeways than with actual freeways. From the first GM-sponsored exhibits, the idea of concrete spans soaring through the air and traffic moving in a continuous stream has been repeatedly drummed into people's heads as something worthwhile, valuable, imposing and important. In fact, the very first freeways were "parkways" that Robert Moses built out into Long Island. With bridges too low for truck traffic or buses, they were for pleasure excursions in automobiles. They were a propaganda coup, and one of the last times driving on a freeway was almost as good as looking at it. The thing that strikes me as a motorist and Detroiter is that you can't look at the architecture while you drive. You don't see the city up close. It's something peripheral. Instead there's all this speed and traffic and things in the way whizzing right and left. Not a good time to take in architecture! As I recall, the first sunken urban expressways were the Davison and the Lodge. They were begun earlier than the Ike-sponsored freeway act, under Mayor Cobo. At the time, Detroiters laughed at the expressway-building, called them "Cobo Canals." Of course, maybe they didn't need them, as Detroit boasted of one of top municipally owned streetcar-coach systems in the world. | ||
Arc312 Member Username: Arc312 Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2006 |
It's sad to think that Highways are not and have not been central city connectors, and instead have killed them. However, there is something truly beautiful about them. Ironic. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 255 Registered: 08-2006 |
 Davison Ave. months before "reconstruction"  Better take advantage of that "street widening sale"!  1942 -- open for traffic | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1927 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think the Davison Ave before and after pics are pretty telling. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2004 |
I love the old street lights! | ||
Sturge Member Username: Sturge Post Number: 142 Registered: 05-2007 |
I like the first pic. I've always noticed how the Ren Cen and the Church line up but never knew how to get a clear pic of it. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3546 Registered: 12-2005 |
Not to mention how the church steeple is echoed in the arrow of the traffic sign below. That's genius. Continuing that metaphor, it's not too flattering for Toledo!  | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 223 Registered: 06-2007 |
I had to laugh at that top pic, of Davison. Apparently pedestrians avoided the sidewalks and walked (or in this case, rode) in the streets even back then. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 819 Registered: 08-2007 |
Hpgrmln, if you were over a certain age, I think 12, you were not allowed to ride your bike on the sidewalk. That was still the rule in the 50s when I was a kiddle in Brightmoor. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 266 Registered: 01-2007 |
Quick Quiz! Why is the Southfield Freeway not flat, but hilly? Going above and below ground? What was it's nickname while being proposed/built? What was the proponent's claim to fame? | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 256 Registered: 08-2006 |
Why is the Southfield Freeway not flat, but hilly? Going above and below ground? It meets grade when the on/off-ramps go up to street level and it dives below grade when it needs to go under surface streets that cross it. makes it fun to drive on. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 946 Registered: 01-2005 |
Gazhekwe: You're correct; it's a '50 Studebaker. My first car (used), a yellow convertible, hillholder brakes, overdrive, and 30 mpg. Notice the double bottom dirt haulers. Max Fruehoff get really rich when he came up with the concept. Made 1000's of them. The dirt removed from the ditches was hauled off and dumped between EB and WB I-94 between western Detroit and Metro. It's been landscaped over the years and looks pretty good. Great pictures. Notice how close to the roadway the light poles are. It almost appears that common sense hadn't been invented at that time. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 225 Registered: 06-2007 |
"Hpgrmln, if you were over a certain age, I think 12, you were not allowed to ride your bike on the sidewalk. That was still the rule in the 50s when I was a kiddle in Brightmoor." Thats the great thing about this forum-the history lessons. I was born in the 70's so I never knew of such a policy.It still seems like an odd rule to limit sidewalk use on a major road.I guess people were more patient and careful back then | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 441 Registered: 04-2006 |
As an urban enthusiast, I have to admit I have a soft spot for the Jeffries/Southfield interchange. That's a sweet shot of it! | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 267 Registered: 01-2007 |
GSGeorge gets a cookie. Simply put, the freeway goes below grade to go under a street that crosses the freeway. Otherwise there was no cost-efficient reason for moving tons of dirt to make the whole freeway "level" according to the main proponent. It's fun, at times, unless you have the "urpees" from the flu or other "substances". 2 cookies left! (Message edited by jrvass on October 18, 2007) | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 824 Registered: 08-2007 |
3rdworld, what a great car. I loved those Studies, they were so futuristic looking. They should bring them back! | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 257 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit is home to the first urban freeway-to-freeway interchange in the world, built in 1953. I-94 at the Lodge.  | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2114 Registered: 01-2005 |
Whether or not the freeways were a good thing for the City of Detroit or not, it sure made it quick and easy to go from New Hudson to Downtown Detroit and back last night. About a half hour, I'd say, and I looked at that bridge at Grand River on the way and it looked just fine to me. The road work on the freeways over the last several years has certainly paid off. the roadways are smooth and a pleasure to drive on, compared to my memories of, say, ten years ago. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1516 Registered: 07-2004 |
That diag interchange is a monster. I tried counting how many buildings they had to demolish to build it and lost count somewhere over 100. Blocks and block of dense housing were ripped out, then the neighborhood around it was flattened too. Shame shame... | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 260 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroitnerd, not as bad as what I-375 did...  1949... what a city!  1952, clearing begins.  1961. Most of south of Gratiot cleared for Lafayette Park.  1967, cutting through the neighborhood for I-375.  1981. Interchange and freeway completed. Photos from DTE Aerial Photo Collection | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 641 Registered: 08-2006 |
GsGeorge I cant figure out how to get my old aerials to edit and post on here. how do you get them posted on here like a picture I cant figure out how to do that. I can only open them with the adobe reader... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1517 Registered: 07-2004 |
Great photo-story, George. I mean, er, depressing as hell, but well told! I think the diag interchange fascinates me because it's the most compact sort of interchange there is. That's why motorists bellyache about the left lane getting slowed by merging traffic or why you're not supposed to exit on Forest/Warren after exiting WB 94 onto SB Lodge. (That never stopped Detroiters, did it?) Anyway, if this is the most compact interchange you can do, look at the destruction! And it was done first, bragging of seven different levels of continuously moving traffic. Sigh... You're absolutely right about 75/375. Hastings Street was among the city's most dynamic neighborhoods. Gratiot was a busy and dense thoroughfare. I guess you could make a case that people were going to leave the city anyway after WWII, with spatial deconcentration, the G.I. Bill, the suburban development bonanza, etc. But the diag at 94/Lodge was put in when Detroit had a massive housing shortage during WWII, right? Which makes it all the more disappointing... | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 261 Registered: 08-2006 |
yeah that Lodge/94 interchange is pretty compact in comparison to some of the others in the city. Makes you wonder why they made the 375 interchange so big.... hmm, I wonder... Feareastsider, I just make screen captures of the PDF files, crop and resize and "save for web" in Photoshop to ensure small file size and quality. They need to be no more than 550 pixels wide and no more than 50K. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1933 Registered: 04-2006 |
Yet, we all know it was the riots that killed Detroit! That was sarcasm, in case anyone is confused. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 676 Registered: 07-2004 |
There is a beauty to riding down a freeways in the city. But there is also a beauty and much more exciting feeling of driving down busy commercial streets. But I can see where a urban ride on a freeway can be fun at times. I never drive. But once in a while that we do drive into the city, it is fun to watch the city ride as you enter on the parkway. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 266 Registered: 08-2006 |
Some great posts here. Jrvass' Southfield Freeway quiz still remains unsolved: What was it's nickname while being proposed/built? What was the proponent's claim to fame? | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 271 Registered: 01-2007 |
I'll give you all a big hint (but you get a crappier cookie now... a "Fig Newton"). The answers can be found in the book "Detroit 300". | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 230 Registered: 06-2007 |
we used to always call them "expressways" in Detroit...when did people start calling them "freeways" in Detroit? just curious... | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 231 Registered: 06-2007 |
Gsgeorge: wonderful photos! especially that first one, in color, that composition is perfect! thank you for all the photos... | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2125 Registered: 01-2005 |
The Southfield freeway was always just called the Southfield freeway, and prior to that was just Southfield Road. I don't remember ever an alternate name being suggested. It got its name originally because the road went into Southfield Township, now the City of Southfield. Before freeway construction, Southfield was a divided roadway with two lanes in each direction. The median was very wide, somewhat like Telegraph is today along Detroit/Redford Township. However, from Seven Mile northward, it merged into a single roadway with two lanes in each direction. Hope that answers it: there was no proponent other than the freeway master plan from just after WW II. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 651 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ray What was the social opinion on freeway construction and growth at that time. It seems like everyone could not wait for freeways. As someone who may be able to remeber traffic on surface streets before freeways how do you feel about them. I know Detroit over did them but what about freeways in general. Are we lucky to have them today? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2127 Registered: 01-2005 |
Opinion as the freeways were being built was eager anticipation. The John Lodge was especially looked forward to by west siders, most of whom took Grand River to work downtown in near daily gridlock. The first few sections to open, in the vicinity of the New Center area, were a start, and eventually it went out to Wyoming. Only later did the section start that was old James Couzens/Northwestern Highway. I-75, the Chrysler, which came later, I would suppose was anticipated with delight by the east siders, although the I-94 had already come through for some relief. I greatly looked forward to the Southfield freeway completion, as my wife and I lived at Southfield and Eight mile in 1960, and her parents on Southield near Allen Road. Changed a 45-minute trip into 20 minutes. Yeah, we're fortunate to have them -- and the subsequent freeways -- today. You can get about the metro area quickly (other than at rush hour times), and I think had none been built, the gridlock would be unbelievable. And for cross-country travel, of which I've done plenty, the Interstate system is a wonder and a marvel. Except for the I-70/I-55/I-44 interchange going through St. Louis.....<grin> | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1528 Registered: 07-2004 |
"I think had none been built, the gridlock would be unbelievable." Yeah, you can thank the dismantling of the street railways for that. Sorry, just hate that if-then fallacy. That's just a way of begging a question... | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1030 Registered: 06-2004 |
They are a fact of life, I guess, but the destruction of those interchanges in the heart of the city is sickening. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 274 Registered: 01-2007 |
Buzzzzz! Times up! No Fig Newtons for you! The Southfield Freeway was nicknamed "Rogell's Roller Coaster" after the Detroit City Councilman proposed only excavating under the bridges that crossed the freeway. Billy Rogell played for the Tigers, primarily as shortstop, from 1930-1939. He was later elected to Detroit City Council. http://www.baseball-almanac.co m/players/player.php?p=rogelbi 01 |
