  Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 4245 Registered: 10-2003 |
I used to do pics for some of the CE publications, and I worked for a wretchedly awful publishing company that was near CE...Many of our people became their people; the result was frequent lunches with Campbell-Ewald Staff... During the 90's, there was a sudden burst of Chinese Buffets in Warren, and a core group of us created weekly lunches at these establishments; we called it "troughing". We would call each other and make pig grunting sounds, and then say "12:3O, OK? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2966 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm in the industry but have never worked for a major agency. Never felt it would be a good fit for me. I did work with Harpernottingham for awhile, but not at CE. Those were good times. Here's a story, I did once apply at Doner. The job description looked like a good fit. I prepared my portfolio, had to weasel out of work to go down there, got a little bit lost, but finally ended up getting there on time. I told the receptionist who I was and who I was there to see. She told me he was out of town. Baffled, I took a seat while she tried to figure it out. She finally comes to the conclusion that one of the guy's associates was handling all of his interviews this week. But that guy wasn't around either. About a half an hour later, the guy walks in the front door. Apparently he didn't realize he had an interview, but is willing to do it anyway. Finally we go up to his office, and begin the interview. I go through the entire portfolio, and he finally looks at me confused and asks how much programming experience I have. Ummm. Apparently they were looking for a hard-core coder for doing database type websites and other interactive media. He looks up the job posting and realizes it's for the wrong position, his secretary screwed up. What a day! (Message edited by johnlodge on October 08, 2007) | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9850 Registered: 10-2003 |
BBDO? Yikes! Liars and thieves (or thieves and liars if you like). They lie to their employees about contracts they have or don't have and then when the close the doors they try to claw back vacation days that had already been taken. Fuck them! | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 171 Registered: 08-2007 |
Maybe there should be an ad agency formed by DYers. A virtual agency where account execs, copywriters, producers and art directors could re-create what an ad agency could be. | ||
Zimm Member Username: Zimm Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Maybe there should be an ad agency formed by DYers. A virtual agency where account execs, copywriters, producers and art directors could re-create what an ad agency could be." creative shops suck. if you want to be a real agency, get a media department. =) | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 408 Registered: 11-2003 |
Don't even get me started on the agency world.. (shakes head). They get an idea in their head, and that is the way to do it - if they come to the table with outdoor, it's what the budget for then everything else is secondary (or print, or radio). There's been a huge move in the interactive space away from traditional agencies - the reason being is that they simply don't get it, and moving toward boutique shops. I know of a VW account that went away from the region because they didn't know a thing about online media - part of it is their fault, the other part of it is that the big 3 play it REALLY safe (to their detriment) and are usually about 10 years behind everyone else in these matters, and if that's who the agencies are selling to, that's how they'll calibrate their pitch. I'm sure this kind of experience contributed to their feeling that there isn't the creative talent around here. I'm open to those of us who work in related fields doing a get-together or networking. We always could use eachother as resources - shall I start a Connect thread? I'm sure we can't post it all online - I know I can't, and I'm guessing from others' posts that they can't - but we could set a place and time. And Zimm - not all creative shops suck ;-) I know of a couple good ones... and, well a few bad ones :-) | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 172 Registered: 08-2007 |
I think what Zimm is alluding to - in his own unique way - is that without an effective media plan, all creative is so much pissing in the wind. One hand clapping, trees falling in a deserted forest, etc. Zimm, personally, I think media planners are exceptionally creative - or at least they can be creative. DigiVis, yes, I agree that the whole concept of an ad agency needs to be re-invented. The old 17.65% mark has been gone since Mr. Lopez pooed in the pool a decade ago. Even mega shops want to present themselves as small boutiques. To re-invent the concept of an ad agency would require a lot of collaboration and a workable compensation structure would be a huge part of any such discussion. | ||
Thursdaynext Member Username: Thursdaynext Post Number: 385 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Thursdaynext, I know that story, but also cannot remember who was involved. It was during one of the old-school holiday parties in the office building, was it not?" Focus, I believe you are correct. I think the year before I started was the last of the in-office holiday parties. One of the girls I worked, who had been there longer than I, had told me of this lusty, drunken encounter. =) | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 225 Registered: 03-2006 |
I'm a local advertising copywriter. Today's BBDO-Detroit in Troy is the result of FCB, Ross Roy, and BBDO merging in 2000. They only produce work for Chrysler brands, but less and less of it each year as the work moves out of state. McCann-Erickson is in downtown Birmingham now, used to be on Big Beaver in Troy. They've lost almost all of their accounts. I don't know what they work on there anymore. Cadillac and Buick left. They might do some Pontiac, but I think that account is primarily over at Leo Burnett-Detroit in Troy. I have no idea what accounts Leo Burnett has. Like Doner, Campbell-Ewald is also losing accounts and employees, as clients leave the state for agencies elsewhere. C-E is about to lose Chevy, which is the account that launched the agency over 100 years ago. It's funny to me that these purportedly "forward thinking" creative agencies let industry changes blind-side them to the point of ruin. What -- None of these agency creative head geniuses saw the internet boom coming? C-E lost Chevy internet advertising to Digitas. BBDO lost Chrysler to Organic. Ford went to Wonderman instead of Y&R. Old school advertising in TV and radio is on its way out for good. Newspaper and magazine advertising diminishing. Thankfully I work for an internet ad company now and business is booming. It's the only area that might salvage my 15-year career in the ad business in the Detroit Metro Area. I'd hate to be writing for TV right about now. Who sees it. Who cares about it anymore. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2992 Registered: 10-2003 |
The grand majority of advertising that reaches my brain is on television. I mean, it's the truth. I completely ignore any ads I see on the web before they are processed by my brain. Television commercials are still most effective in my case. And since I listen to NPR, radio is right out. No commercials. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 176 Registered: 08-2007 |
Funny, I think NPR is so loaded with sponsorships and underwriters that they sound more like commercial radio every day. Otherwise I never would have heard of the most painful law-firm in the city: Harness, Dickie and Pierce. Ouch. The old-school ad stuff is going, but it still; makes a massive impact on name recall and brand ID. Yet, it is true that the internets is big and getting hugher with every mouse click. The problem with the old line agencies can be summed up in a single compound word: wingtips. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1353 Registered: 02-2006 |
I like the online world. I have worn jeans every day, for over a year now. In fact, I have no "work" wardrobe. Everything is the same. Helps on the budget. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2007 |
Anyone remember Solomon-Sayles Advertising Agency? They were in the old Donovan Building on Woodward around 1964 and moved to the Book Cadillac Building to the 32nd floor. They did a lot of advertising on the Bill Kennedy, Mary Morgan shows. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 196 Registered: 03-2005 |
I am part of the 'boutique shop' movement. No bosses, 2 business suits, and my own time schedule. I have a crew of copy writers, computer coders, web workers, photographers and the like. When a job comes in I assemble the job I call in the contractors that are necessary. I pay them well and keep them happy. We all work online and sometimes never meet the clients in person. Work fast and learn the on-line market. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 197 Registered: 03-2005 |
Any one notice the ridiculous job descriptions & wages offered on Craigslist.org for creative jobs. Man one is better off working at Star Bucks to get health insurance. Reply 438638808@craigslist.org Need of a multi-faceted graphic designer! Responsibilities Include: Create Concepts and Design for marketing materials such as business cards, posters, brochures, flyers, web design, etc. Work closely with upper management to achieve organizational goals. Maintain corporate brand initiatives Proof materials with customers Create presentations for client meetings. Location: Detroit Compensation: 8 - 10/hr. negotiable | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1355 Registered: 02-2006 |
Hey, $8 an hour. That's better than "compensation: exposure" | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 411 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have to say, Indian talent has depressed the local market in lots of ways. Tons of people are outsourcing to India or other countries - 9 out of 10 internet shops, in my experience, will tell you they have "35 employees" but only three are here and the rest are in Bangalore. And this, by the way, is completely acceptable to their clients, and they're making multi-millions in revenue. I know of one talent wrangler (I don't use them) who can get you a 7-year experienced PHP programmer (with degree) for full time at $2200 a month - in India. The product they put out is crap, the people here selling the jobs don't know the first thing about what good design or good usability is (or a marketing strategy). The unfortunate bottom line is that the market is full of people here - and there are no incentives for hiring locally with clients. People will pay lip service to the idea of working locally, but when it comes down to it, send everything to India or eastern block countries. Every one I've seen leave this area in these tech/creative fields has gone on to do very, very well anywhere else but here. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 199 Registered: 03-2005 |
Nope I use local talent...or semi local in the great lakes area. I am not comfortable with going over seas with my projects. I think there is a real cultural divide when it comes to creative services when one goes off shore. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 4253 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, that's noble of you to shop locally, Dhugger. "Any one notice the ridiculous job descriptions & wages offered on Craigslist.org for creative jobs?" Funny, I got outbid on a small job a few years ago by a guy who offered to do it for free for the "exposure". I thought about offering to pay the client for the "opportunity" just to mess with the charity guy, but thought the better of it. Craigslist seems to be the land of cheapskates, but it seems that the bottom has fallen out of a lot of creative jobs as far as rates go... Which is why I've been gradually backing out of the photo business, at least as a prime source of income. The folks at the top of the pyramid still seem to be doing ok, but everyone else has been forced to lower their rates as digital technology makes things easier...Now there seem to be all these sort of casual moonlighters; "I'm in a band but I'm a photographer" "I'm a film maker but I also shoot stills" "I'm a Dentist but I do pictures too". I pondered becoming a photoshop whiz, but the idea of sitting in front of computer for hours bores me, and I think that sooner or later all those high-end retouching jobs will be done in India or Eastern Europe. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree DHugger.. there are significant cultural differences. I am not comfortable either - and the kicker is, the real costs many times can be higher. In my experience, an outshored firm will just gladly lie to you then jack up the cost on the other side. I had it explained to me (by a few talent wranglers) that it's their business culture to agree with everything even if they don't agree, especially with foreigners. After all, they're never going to meet you. I am with you - when you want to produce quality work (especially anything creative that may have cultural influences), keep it in the United States or Canada. If you don't care about quality, (which some don't), go wherever. That company will, in the end, suffer. This ain't widgets, as much as some company owners would like to make it that. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 288 Registered: 04-2006 |
Incidentally, I've yet to meet an advertising copywriter who's a good speller. Are there any of you out there? | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2007 |
I've worked for Michigan Bell/Ameritech/SBC/AT&T since 1973. I was in the Sales Promotions Art Department designing floats, banners, signage, etc. I'm currently doing finished art for the Yellow Pages. We recently switched over from MacIntosh to PC's. What a joke. The programs we used before were perfect for what we were doing. "If it's not broke don't fix it" does not apply here. Here, it goes like this: "If it works fine, change it." | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2007 |
We have professional proofreaders proofing our work. Some of our proofreaders are more experienced than others and that causes friction amongst us artists. The company is always being sued for mis-spelled names and incorrect phone numbers. There's a local attorney who has been getting free advertising for years because someone put the wrong phone number in his ads. He sued the company and now he gets it all for FREE! He's slick. He sends in these elaborate layouts with lots of body copy. At first glance you see the same ad but when you read through them there are subtle differences that become major problems when composing the finished product. | ||
Oldoak Member Username: Oldoak Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2007 |
What are the students in art school being told about job prospects upon graduation? Are they expecting 30 to 50K for their first job? | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 226 Registered: 03-2006 |
That is a good question, Oldoak. Years ago, I started in adv at $20,000 a year as a writer. I wonder what entry level pays nowadays. | ||
Sven1977 Member Username: Sven1977 Post Number: 209 Registered: 04-2004 |
The fire at Doner started in an office on the top floor. A transformer or some such thing that hooked into a computer caught fire. There wasn't a party going on and it wasn't a candle. There are still tapes and cd's around with smoke stains. There were two couples caught exchanging there new-found love in the parking garage at the grand re-opening of the building. One of the "lucky ones" was a client so everything was hushed up. Doner really used to be a crazy place in the 70's and early 80's. I know of one conference room table tale and another one where a bra was rolled up into the screen of the conference room. Good thing my boss checked the screen before the client meeting. | ||
Detsterdale Member Username: Detsterdale Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2007 |
Spacemonkey - Leo Burnett will be doing GMC and Buick Ads. I think that starts this month. Won't see anything until start of next year though. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 201 Registered: 03-2005 |
Digitalvision & Barnesfoto: regarding using off shore talent. My family member has had the following experience in the auto industry. He is forced to train engineers in China to do the work they used to do in Detroit. The contractors promise the world to his company then the contractors don't deliver on time. The programming that is delivered is an inferior product. This is why I use local talent. If I need a face to face meeting I can do it. I take responsibility for bad business decisions not give it over to some one in a country I have never met. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 229 Registered: 03-2006 |
My first week at BBDO-Detroit (year 2000) a couple was caught having sex in a conference room mid day during work, him sitting in a conference room chair, she straddling him, bopping up and down. An account exec was giving the client a tour of the new building and opened the door on the two. I don't know who they were, but were described via the grapevine as two ethic-type people from the computer department. They did not get fired. That's the amazing part. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5046 Registered: 10-2003 |
A few things I notic ed... All the account exec girls are hot and they all drive Saabs and Audis that daddy bought them. I loved seeing the account folks battle it out with the creative types when they should have been working together. I still think advertising is one of the biggest bullshit fields out there today. |
