  Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 645 Registered: 08-2006 |
Over the weekend I ended up at ground zero of hated metro Detroit sprawl. The new mall on Hall Road. First I have to admit I was surprised by the development. Performers, socalizing, nice brick work, hidden details, 340 year old tree! I know all of the ills of this type of development adding to the sprawl machine. As I was walking around the mall I was thinking of how everyone was intrigued and excited for a whole new unique place to shop. Or is it? I thought of another mall and what it must have been like that day 12 miles almost due south of where I was standing. I dont know much about when it was an open air mall and was surprised it was cause today you would never know. Most people say Eastland is dead but when I was there last a few years ago it was pretty busy and quite nice. I thought of what it was like 51 years ago when Eastland MAll opened. New, exciting, people probably said a lot of things similar to people in the papers recently commenting on the new PArtridge Creek MAll. such as "It is so nice and new and exciting" or " This is really something different for the area we needed something like this." I wonder if Partridge Creek will be another struggling mall in 50 years. Nothing special or noticed much like Eastland compared to other malls today. Partridge Creek is about 4 or 5 miles south of the "development line" of metro Detroit much like Eastland was when it opened. I wish the mall was more connected that it is to allow foot traffic but that is unlikely going to happen. I wonder if in 2058 a new mall will open on 32 Mile Road with all of the fan fare and excitement of this new mall, which is quite nice i must admit, but at a price. Maybe we wont have to wait to 2058, maybe the plan has been scrapped but about a year ago there was talk of opening a high end shopping area at 32 and Powell. by 2058 at this rate the new mall will open in Sanilac County! (Message edited by fareastsider on October 22, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1943 Registered: 04-2006 |
How is Great Lakes Crossing doing nowadays? | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 239 Registered: 03-2006 |
I like urban sprawl. But it seems weird to me that a mall would open now in the Metro Detroit area. Who has expendable cash now a days? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9880 Registered: 10-2003 |
...and I like solid block text. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2485 Registered: 06-2006 |
"How is Great Lakes Crossing doing nowadays?" It's doing good...the mall just held a high job fair two weeks ago to fill a bunch of open spots... There has been minimal turnover with their tenants...new ones seem to pop up to replace the few that do leave... G by Guess is opening a new store there soon, H&M just moved into the space where that JC Penny outlet thing was that closed back in '02....I know Urban Behavior is opening a store there soon... It'd be kinda hard for that mall to fail given all the retailers they attract and the amount of wealth in that area... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3493 Registered: 10-2003 |
Can't wait until the center of Metropolitan Detroit is up in the Thumb. Sprawl on! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1945 Registered: 04-2006 |
Can't wait until the center of Metropolitan Detroit is up in the Thumb. It will definitely implode before then... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2486 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Can't wait until the center of Metropolitan Detroit is up in the Thumb. " In all fairness, there are a ton of established subdivisions up in that area...this was more of a case of infill than sprawl... Even if Detroit could open a simple strip mall downtown with a few high-end retailers, residents of Clinton township and its surrounding areas would not be willing to drive an hour south just to shop there... This project is so far north that it doesn't affect Detroit as much as projects in places like Troy or Novi do... Shoot, from Clinton Township, it's a shorter (time-wise) drive to Port Huron than to Detroit... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3494 Registered: 10-2003 |
Infill? How can you possibly claim that greenfield development is infill? This isn't a neighborhood retail center--this is an enormous regional shopping destination that will displace economic activity further outward in the region, and exert negative pressures on existing retail centers in the core. No one is naive enough to think that the only retail center in the region should be downtown Detroit. But this is more of the same ludicrous overdevelopment that has been ongoing since Hudson's built Northland. When are people going to learn to stop perpetuating the downward spiral? | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 256 Registered: 06-2007 |
When Detroit shows it can manage itself well enough that businesses can derive the same profit closer to the city. No profit, no development. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1947 Registered: 04-2006 |
When Detroit shows it can manage itself well enough that businesses can derive the same profit closer to the city. So Detroit's corrupt city government is pushing people past 16 Mile? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3495 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: That's a whole different issue entirely. First of all, profit potential has little to do with how well the city government is managed. Second, and more importantly, this mall is creation of yet more retail space in an over-retailed market with zero population growth and a declining economic forecast. So you tell me: how does this NOT have a negative economic impact somewhere? But hey, hooray for people driving miles on end to sit in traffic jams on Hall Road in their SUVs. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2487 Registered: 06-2006 |
"When are people going to learn to stop perpetuating the downward spiral?" The established residents of Clinton Township and its surrounding areas don't feel that it's a downward spiral...they find the location of this mall to be quite convenient given that it near the place the chose to live out their lives When are people going to learn that the suburbs are here to stay and that as much as you hope that they'll be bulldozed over and everyone will be force to move back to or near Detroit, that's simply not going to EVER happen... If an urban lifestyle is what your after, I'm afraid your simply never going to find it in SE Michigan... | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 258 Registered: 06-2007 |
Dan, Macomb County does have a large population of immigrants from Oakland and Wayne counties. Previously, it has lacked a "high-end" mall that caters to residents with higher disposable incomes. Generally, those with higher incomes in the Macomb County region live within a few miles of Hall Road. Residents were left going to Sommerset in Troy in order to get spend absurd amounts of money on consumer items. The approximate drive time from M-53 and M-59 to Troy and Somerset is 30 minutes on a good day. It can be an hour at peak periods. In other words, there was a market for this type of mall in this type of area. Macomb doesn't have -0- population growth. It has boomed over the last decade and there was a pent-up demand for this time of retail establishment. Could it have been done elsewhere in Macomb County through rehab, etc? Possibly. However, at the time the financing and development plans went through, we weren't in a recession. This thing started in the early 2000's; not 2 years ago. As for Detroit, I firmly believe that government can assist in the development of new residential, retail, industrial, and office projects by increasing efficiencies in services in relation to costs, by decreasing the amount of red tape needed to go through, and by providing excellent policing and infrastructure improvements. Detroit provides none of those requirements for project development. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3496 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: The REGION has zero population growth. As you've implied above, intentional or not, there will be impacts felt elsewhere in the region. I just don't understand how anyone can believe that repeating the same patterns of the past sixty years is going to improve anything. There is a severe failure in comprehending the nature of Southeast Michigan's lack of economic competitiveness. I predict that within 25 years, the entire region (and state) will be in for a very rude awakening if this mindless sprawling development continues unabated. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 648 Registered: 08-2006 |
fixed it for ya Goat! | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 4152 Registered: 03-2006 |
It would be great if the folks in the urban areas would worry as much about cleaning their own house as they do about sprawl. The folks that built this mall and the people who will patronize it are frankly not your concern. They don't need your input as to where to invest their money or where to shop. You should be focusing on how the city can be improved, there is enough to do there to occupy your time. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3497 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yup, PG, you're right. This is no one else's concern: quote: http://www.mlui.org/growthmana gement/fullarticle.asp?fileid= 16867 Pretty interesting, considering the budget deficit was just 17% of that amount. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1444 Registered: 04-2006 |
PG, if folks in 'urban areas' had the same incomes as those who are buy the mall I could accept this arguement. In addition, there are some pretty sleazy parts of Clinton Twp/Mt Clemens (which is just across the road from this place). You should really try going to Fairlane, it is spotless and will blow your theory out of the water. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 4153 Registered: 03-2006 |
Another lib with an opinion, the cheapest commodity in the world. | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 259 Registered: 06-2007 |
Dan, I'd disagree that there is a severe failure to comprehend the issues facing SE MI. There is a severe failure to address it. We all know it. I don't advocate sprawl but frankly, land is cheap here because it's cheaper and easier to build new. It also allows the racial divisions to continue. The reasons are too numerous to list frankly but sprawl is not what made us economically disadvantaged. If anything, the heyday of the automotive industry came with sprawl. Most cities who have vibrant downtowns have several anchors to the downtown. Huge service-oriented industries, financial services, corporate headquarters, etc. We don't have that here. We have government downtown and a few corporate headquarters that are battered markets struggling to stay afloat. The competitive disadvantages Michigan has frankly, are conservative lending practices, little entrepreneurial support, overarching and non-transparant regulation of businesses, over-specialization on industrial manufacturing and engineering, poor primary educational systems that do not prepare students for the marketplace, corrupt and/or incompetent local and state government leaders, a lack of racial discourse, lack of police coordination, lack of participation in community groups, lack of coordination between community groups, an outflow of native capital to other states and countries, and a mindset that failure in business is inexcusable. By the way, the land this mall sits on Dan, was formerly a golf course. This is not exactly "virgin farmland." | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 4154 Registered: 03-2006 |
I have been to Fairlane, what of it? | ||
Screamingfit Member Username: Screamingfit Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2006 |
Funny enough, this is the first I've heard of this mall. Expect Great Lakes Cursing to be the new Pontiac "Summit Place" mall within five years... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 4155 Registered: 03-2006 |
As if a mall in Detroit would be a big money maker. Believe me, if retail in Detroit could be a winner more people would be doing it. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3498 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Yet you don't seem able to develop your own opinions. Says a lot about you, doesn't it? PG, you blindly subscribe to empty rhetoric and repeat its assertions ad nauseum without fully comprehending the consequences or the relationships between parts of a whole. You can't simply isolate pieces just because your brain isn't complex enough to analyze them holistically. What I believe makes you truly an idiot, however, is that you fail to even consider information that may challenge your "infallible" world view. Your simplistic bumper sticker slogans aren't going to improve a God damned thing in the region or the State of Michigan. From the same article: quote: | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 260 Registered: 06-2007 |
Great Lakes Crossing is already the new Summit Place. That's why Summit Place had problems. The racial divisions continue in all honesty. Pontiac goes to Great Lakes, Auburn Hills, Rochester, and Orion go over the the Village of Rochester Hills. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3499 Registered: 10-2003 |
So how long until someone builds a new mega mall in Lapeer? | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 261 Registered: 06-2007 |
When Birch Run is paid off and fully depreciated. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 97 Registered: 04-2006 |
There is something very depressing about the design of Greats Lakes Crossing. It feels claustrophobic, like an endless tunnel. There is no portion of the mall where you can stand and get an overview of the mall's layout. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1948 Registered: 04-2006 |
When Birch Run is paid off and fully depreciated. Birch Run was nearly dead the last time I was there 3 or 4 years ago... |
