Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » Jackson: Lenders prey on minorities in Detroit « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 470
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"This is a national emergency," the civil rights leader said. "The entire economy is in jeopardy."
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071019/BIZ/710190422/1001

- Then the solution Jesse, is to get all the people you know, to form a loan pool to make loans on all these poor victims.

"Michael DeVoss, executive director of Michigan State Housing Development Authority, told the audience. "They're in foreclosure because a new loan product was introduced that preyed on urban areas."
- SO he is admitting that his agency was the cause of this problem for not "protecting the victims"

- I guess the both of them will also admit that the credit card companies are predatory lenders as well.
- They must also admit that Detroit's schools failed them because they can't do math or read.

(Message edited by lefty2 on October 22, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1952
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So was your intention in posting this to ignite another racial argument?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 471
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no. a cause and effect argument for understanding,
and to bring a sense of reality to incorrect claims made by people who make inflammatory statements to serve their own interests.
not to deny that abusive lending doesn't happen, it does sometimes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah. C'mon. How is the industry supposed to maintain profits of hundreds of millions of dollars a year without a few unhappy campers. Naturally, these borrowers brought it on their own heads.

What's that? The banking system is in trouble? Naturally, they hadn't anything to do with their predicament. Let's bail'm out!
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 472
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason is that their lending standards were too loose and they made risky loans, it is a two way street.
People accepted bad term loans and overpaid, their fault. Lenders made many bad loans and investors got stung, their problem. A few were crooked.

I don't favor bailouts either.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1535
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't favor bailouts, then raise your voice good and strong against them. Petty shit like fuelling blame against minority borrowers takes the heat off the incompetent, criminal, idiotic people who run lending institutions. Same old game, we get worked up over the petty shit, then rob us blind while we're griping at each other. Divide and conquer.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2491
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"You're racist for not giving us loans!"

Ok, we'll give you loans...

"You're racist for giving us loans!"
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 473
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i just did. do you want me to stand on a corner with a sign? do you favor homeowner bailouts?

I blame both sides, Lenders/Investors got burned by making bad loans.

I didn't blame minority borrowers. i think desperate people who make unwise financial decisions should not expect a bailout either or blame others when they signed the loan documents.

You obviously don't understand the secondary mortgage market which is fine, but the old argument still holds true, people are responsible for their own decisions behavior.

it sucks trying to make ends meet when jobs are scarce, i've been there more than once.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 1034
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't understand the debate. I am white and I have an ARM and they payment is going to double next month. I don't think selling ARMS is about racism.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1536
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right, Lefty2. I could see how even-handed you were in your original post. You know, the one practically guffhawing at the idea -- the VERY IDEA! -- that credit card companies and other lenders could have predatory practices.

"I blame both sides."

Great trope. Here's another one in case that gets shopworn.

"I tend to think the truth lies somewhere in the middle."

See, once you blame both sides, the peace of mind you get is priceless: Never having to consider who is the predator and who is the victim.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1537
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe not, Ray. Maybe not. But if black people are hit disproportionately by these practices, then it is something worth a second look, I'd say. White poverty ain't much different from black poverty, but, statistically speaking, black people in America have more than their fair share of troubles.
Top of pageBottom of page

Deputy
Member
Username: Deputy

Post Number: 99
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The subprime loans are killing lenders, people are foreclosing on loans left and right, leaving the lenders holding real estate that is declining in value and which isn't selling. Not sure how they can be accused of being predatory...more like suicidal.
The ignorant will blame one side or the other. While the truth is that the government (Yes, We the people....) are to blame. Our nations economic history is littered with overzealous markets and risky lending resulting in chaos. It's barely been 20 years and we are repeating the same mistakes of the S&L fiasco that cost us (taxpayers) an estimate $125 Billion dollars.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1538
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deputy: Wait till we bail them out. Just like S&L, I'll wager they'll walk away scot-free and we'll have to clean up the mess.
Top of pageBottom of page

321brian
Member
Username: 321brian

Post Number: 480
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lenders prey on anyone who doesn't know the process.

They only see Green.
Top of pageBottom of page

Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 552
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a similar debate last month; I wonder if Miss_cleo will join you?

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/107211/112925.html?11892 88773
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1959
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait till we bail them out. Just like S&L, I'll wager they'll walk away scot-free and we'll have to clean up the mess.

Pssh. We already did! That was two months ago...

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/F ed_pumps_38_bln_dlrs_into_mark et_i_08102007.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1540
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right, and remember all the debate we had over that? Funny how there was no finger-pointing then and the whole thing happened quietly.

Anyway, I don't think that amount represents a full bailout. In psychological terms though, I'd call it "enabling." Why should they clean up their act when the fed just keeps pouring money into them?
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Well, right after this happened, I read somewhere that a couple of very large financial services firms were in very big trouble from this and that move by the fed kinda saved their ass.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 474
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons.
Do pawn shops prey on low income people?
No one held the borrowers up and said sign theses loan papers or else. caveat emptor
Top of pageBottom of page

Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 1483
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Nobody, certainly not black people, gives a shit about Jesse Jackson, or what he says, anymore.
2. I agree with 321brian. The only color involved here is Green. Moneylenders prey on financially disadvantaged folks. Their lack of interest in skin color is so complete that it would be admirable but for its avaricious origin.
3. Despite Jackson's severely faded Relevance Quotient, he is doing a good thing by trying to call attention to this evil, accelerating trend.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10557
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I disagree with Jackson but I do have some major issues with the housing bust right now. I am curious why foreclosures are an issue now. People have faced foreclosures for years but now the demographic has changed and it is an issue?

I feel bad and believe we should help those that face foreclosure due to losing a job, etc but that has never been a concern. Now that foreclosures are hitting wealthy neighborhoods it is an issue.

The fact that this is being touted as an issue just reeks of classism.

As much as I dislike Eminem I think these lyrics are certainly appropiate in this scenario:

quote:

When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school
And they blame it on Marilyn (on Marilyn).. and the heroin
Where were the parents at? And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class ci-ty



If the poor folks make bad choices they are idiots but now that all classes made mistakes it is a national issue shows how the country really works and thinks.

S\Why is the gov't considering bailing out people buying million dollar homes by overextinding themselves but never thought twoce to tell people f off when their 50K homes were being taken by the banks.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes

Post Number: 57
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow. Amazing. I can't believe that there is a conversation about blacks getting preyed upon by lenders. It isn't a race thing at all. All people that weren't able to afford loans were given these ARM's so they could 'afford' them. Most people that can't afford and that don't understand what an ARM is for got themselves into trouble by signing one of these.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2233
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a point of clarification, MSHDA (Michigan State Housing Development Authority) is a quasi-governmental organization that has never issued predatory loans. Quite the contrary, they offer some of the best home-buyer education available (usually required for their loans) and offer solid loans to first-time home buyers when they're ready for a home loan. DeVoss is pointing out the reason why so many African Americans, and Americans in general, are in trouble with their house.

Now as for mortgages and black folks, black folks on average have a disproportionately higher percentage of their wealth in their home than other financial investments. So the mortgage implosion will affect black folks and their wealth more than other races, hence Jackson's tour. He's addressing a system problem.

I've worked with elderly homeowners in Detroit and have meet many who are in serious jeopardy of loosing their homes. These elderly (largely) women trusted the loan officer who sold them the loan, often times via a telemarketer. I would read the terms of the loan and ask if they knew what they had gotten themselves into. They'd say "that wasn't what Mr. _________ said, the nice man who helped me with the paperwork". They'd then rattle off the verbal promises they were given with the loan (ability to make some home improvements, cash to supplement income, take trips to see family, etc.) with no payments or very low payments. 2-3 years later a huge monthly payment would start that was equal or greater than their monthly Social Security and/or pension check.

These were women who's husbands had always handled the major financial matters of the house and had owned their homes free and clear for one to two decades. The only source of wealth they had and the only thing of financial value they had to pass on to their children was about to get turned over to the mortgage company due to some huckster who sold a gullible old lady a bogus loan and ran to the bank before the commission check bounced.

It's a serious problem.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1961
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons.

Explain.
Top of pageBottom of page

56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1846
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ever notice there is no Aaron's or Rent-a-center in B'ham or Grosse Pointe?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10565
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found this article a little frustating to read:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/ economy/housing/2007-10-23-cou ntrywide_N.htm

quote:

The plan would benefit Countrywide borrowers who:

•Are in default on their loans because of an interest-rate reset in the past few months. Countrywide will send a letter offering to roll back their rate to the previous, lower level. Countrywide expects to modify 10,000 of these loans, totaling $2.2 billion, by the end of this year.

•Are likely to have difficulty affording an upcoming rate increase and are unable to refinance. Countrywide will modify the loan to a rate that will keep borrowers in their homes. The lender says it expects to modify 20,000 loans totaling $4 billion through the end of next year.

But those borrowers who fall behind because they've lost their jobs and lack enough income to keep up with a mortgage won't qualify.



SO they are giving a free pass to people that are ignorant or greedy but if you lose your job it's too bad.

The fact that these people are getting breaks from mortgage companies makes me sick. WHy aren't they being held accountable for their stupidity and/or greed.

I still believe that this is now considered a crisis because of the demographic that it is hitting.

Looking back I could have saved some money taking an ARM then asking my mortgage company to bail me out. Of course I would never do that but it is upsetting that stupidity/greed is being rewarded.

This whole thing is absolute garbage.
Top of pageBottom of page

Vas
Member
Username: Vas

Post Number: 838
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would you bring the Detroit Public Schools into this?
Iheartthed is right, a hothead trying to inflame a thread. Great like we need more of this behavior on this site.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 475
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons"
see - http://www.federalreserve.gov/ newsevents/press/monetary/2007 0810a.htm
or - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ news?pid=20601087&refer=home&s id=aWvmnW7kB4rM

The Fed buys/sells Treasury bonds, they raise lower the reserve ratio for banks, they infuse money into the banking system, etc. to adjust the money supply to the needs of the economy, ie stability or growth or inflation fears. Depends on the needs/situation.

"Ever notice there is no Aaron's or Rent-a-center in B'ham or Grosse Pointe?" -
Probably because they can get better stuff for less elsewhere.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.