Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 470 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 2:09 pm: | |
"This is a national emergency," the civil rights leader said. "The entire economy is in jeopardy." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071019/BIZ/710190422/1001 - Then the solution Jesse, is to get all the people you know, to form a loan pool to make loans on all these poor victims. "Michael DeVoss, executive director of Michigan State Housing Development Authority, told the audience. "They're in foreclosure because a new loan product was introduced that preyed on urban areas." - SO he is admitting that his agency was the cause of this problem for not "protecting the victims" - I guess the both of them will also admit that the credit card companies are predatory lenders as well. - They must also admit that Detroit's schools failed them because they can't do math or read. (Message edited by lefty2 on October 22, 2007) |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1952 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 2:12 pm: | |
So was your intention in posting this to ignite another racial argument? |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 471 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:10 pm: | |
no. a cause and effect argument for understanding, and to bring a sense of reality to incorrect claims made by people who make inflammatory statements to serve their own interests. not to deny that abusive lending doesn't happen, it does sometimes. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1534 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:16 pm: | |
Yeah. C'mon. How is the industry supposed to maintain profits of hundreds of millions of dollars a year without a few unhappy campers. Naturally, these borrowers brought it on their own heads. What's that? The banking system is in trouble? Naturally, they hadn't anything to do with their predicament. Let's bail'm out! |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 472 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:39 pm: | |
The reason is that their lending standards were too loose and they made risky loans, it is a two way street. People accepted bad term loans and overpaid, their fault. Lenders made many bad loans and investors got stung, their problem. A few were crooked. I don't favor bailouts either. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1535 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 6:50 pm: | |
If you don't favor bailouts, then raise your voice good and strong against them. Petty shit like fuelling blame against minority borrowers takes the heat off the incompetent, criminal, idiotic people who run lending institutions. Same old game, we get worked up over the petty shit, then rob us blind while we're griping at each other. Divide and conquer. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2491 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:18 pm: | |
"You're racist for not giving us loans!" Ok, we'll give you loans... "You're racist for giving us loans!" |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 473 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:24 pm: | |
i just did. do you want me to stand on a corner with a sign? do you favor homeowner bailouts? I blame both sides, Lenders/Investors got burned by making bad loans. I didn't blame minority borrowers. i think desperate people who make unwise financial decisions should not expect a bailout either or blame others when they signed the loan documents. You obviously don't understand the secondary mortgage market which is fine, but the old argument still holds true, people are responsible for their own decisions behavior. it sucks trying to make ends meet when jobs are scarce, i've been there more than once. |
Ray Member Username: Ray
Post Number: 1034 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:29 pm: | |
I don't understand the debate. I am white and I have an ARM and they payment is going to double next month. I don't think selling ARMS is about racism. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1536 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
Right, Lefty2. I could see how even-handed you were in your original post. You know, the one practically guffhawing at the idea -- the VERY IDEA! -- that credit card companies and other lenders could have predatory practices. "I blame both sides." Great trope. Here's another one in case that gets shopworn. "I tend to think the truth lies somewhere in the middle." See, once you blame both sides, the peace of mind you get is priceless: Never having to consider who is the predator and who is the victim. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1537 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 7:53 pm: | |
Maybe not, Ray. Maybe not. But if black people are hit disproportionately by these practices, then it is something worth a second look, I'd say. White poverty ain't much different from black poverty, but, statistically speaking, black people in America have more than their fair share of troubles. |
Deputy Member Username: Deputy
Post Number: 99 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:01 pm: | |
The subprime loans are killing lenders, people are foreclosing on loans left and right, leaving the lenders holding real estate that is declining in value and which isn't selling. Not sure how they can be accused of being predatory...more like suicidal. The ignorant will blame one side or the other. While the truth is that the government (Yes, We the people....) are to blame. Our nations economic history is littered with overzealous markets and risky lending resulting in chaos. It's barely been 20 years and we are repeating the same mistakes of the S&L fiasco that cost us (taxpayers) an estimate $125 Billion dollars. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1538 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:07 pm: | |
Deputy: Wait till we bail them out. Just like S&L, I'll wager they'll walk away scot-free and we'll have to clean up the mess. |
321brian Member Username: 321brian
Post Number: 480 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:13 pm: | |
Lenders prey on anyone who doesn't know the process. They only see Green. |
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 552 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:20 pm: | |
We had a similar debate last month; I wonder if Miss_cleo will join you? https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/107211/112925.html?11892 88773 |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1959 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:03 pm: | |
Wait till we bail them out. Just like S&L, I'll wager they'll walk away scot-free and we'll have to clean up the mess. Pssh. We already did! That was two months ago... http://rawstory.com/news/afp/F ed_pumps_38_bln_dlrs_into_mark et_i_08102007.html |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1540 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:16 pm: | |
Right, and remember all the debate we had over that? Funny how there was no finger-pointing then and the whole thing happened quietly. Anyway, I don't think that amount represents a full bailout. In psychological terms though, I'd call it "enabling." Why should they clean up their act when the fed just keeps pouring money into them? |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1960 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 10:30 pm: | |
^Well, right after this happened, I read somewhere that a couple of very large financial services firms were in very big trouble from this and that move by the fed kinda saved their ass. |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 474 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:52 pm: | |
The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons. Do pawn shops prey on low income people? No one held the borrowers up and said sign theses loan papers or else. caveat emptor |
Ravine Member Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1483 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:54 pm: | |
1. Nobody, certainly not black people, gives a shit about Jesse Jackson, or what he says, anymore. 2. I agree with 321brian. The only color involved here is Green. Moneylenders prey on financially disadvantaged folks. Their lack of interest in skin color is so complete that it would be admirable but for its avaricious origin. 3. Despite Jackson's severely faded Relevance Quotient, he is doing a good thing by trying to call attention to this evil, accelerating trend. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10557 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:05 am: | |
I disagree with Jackson but I do have some major issues with the housing bust right now. I am curious why foreclosures are an issue now. People have faced foreclosures for years but now the demographic has changed and it is an issue? I feel bad and believe we should help those that face foreclosure due to losing a job, etc but that has never been a concern. Now that foreclosures are hitting wealthy neighborhoods it is an issue. The fact that this is being touted as an issue just reeks of classism. As much as I dislike Eminem I think these lyrics are certainly appropiate in this scenario:
quote:When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school And they blame it on Marilyn (on Marilyn).. and the heroin Where were the parents at? And look where it's at Middle America, now it's a tragedy Now it's so sad to see, an upper class ci-ty If the poor folks make bad choices they are idiots but now that all classes made mistakes it is a national issue shows how the country really works and thinks. S\Why is the gov't considering bailing out people buying million dollar homes by overextinding themselves but never thought twoce to tell people f off when their 50K homes were being taken by the banks. |
Jerrytimes Member Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 57 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:35 am: | |
Wow. Amazing. I can't believe that there is a conversation about blacks getting preyed upon by lenders. It isn't a race thing at all. All people that weren't able to afford loans were given these ARM's so they could 'afford' them. Most people that can't afford and that don't understand what an ARM is for got themselves into trouble by signing one of these. |
Bvos Member Username: Bvos
Post Number: 2233 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:14 am: | |
Just a point of clarification, MSHDA (Michigan State Housing Development Authority) is a quasi-governmental organization that has never issued predatory loans. Quite the contrary, they offer some of the best home-buyer education available (usually required for their loans) and offer solid loans to first-time home buyers when they're ready for a home loan. DeVoss is pointing out the reason why so many African Americans, and Americans in general, are in trouble with their house. Now as for mortgages and black folks, black folks on average have a disproportionately higher percentage of their wealth in their home than other financial investments. So the mortgage implosion will affect black folks and their wealth more than other races, hence Jackson's tour. He's addressing a system problem. I've worked with elderly homeowners in Detroit and have meet many who are in serious jeopardy of loosing their homes. These elderly (largely) women trusted the loan officer who sold them the loan, often times via a telemarketer. I would read the terms of the loan and ask if they knew what they had gotten themselves into. They'd say "that wasn't what Mr. _________ said, the nice man who helped me with the paperwork". They'd then rattle off the verbal promises they were given with the loan (ability to make some home improvements, cash to supplement income, take trips to see family, etc.) with no payments or very low payments. 2-3 years later a huge monthly payment would start that was equal or greater than their monthly Social Security and/or pension check. These were women who's husbands had always handled the major financial matters of the house and had owned their homes free and clear for one to two decades. The only source of wealth they had and the only thing of financial value they had to pass on to their children was about to get turned over to the mortgage company due to some huckster who sold a gullible old lady a bogus loan and ran to the bank before the commission check bounced. It's a serious problem. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1961 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:30 am: | |
The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons. Explain. |
56packman Member Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1846 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:07 am: | |
Ever notice there is no Aaron's or Rent-a-center in B'ham or Grosse Pointe? |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10565 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
I found this article a little frustating to read: http://www.usatoday.com/money/ economy/housing/2007-10-23-cou ntrywide_N.htm
quote:The plan would benefit Countrywide borrowers who: •Are in default on their loans because of an interest-rate reset in the past few months. Countrywide will send a letter offering to roll back their rate to the previous, lower level. Countrywide expects to modify 10,000 of these loans, totaling $2.2 billion, by the end of this year. •Are likely to have difficulty affording an upcoming rate increase and are unable to refinance. Countrywide will modify the loan to a rate that will keep borrowers in their homes. The lender says it expects to modify 20,000 loans totaling $4 billion through the end of next year. But those borrowers who fall behind because they've lost their jobs and lack enough income to keep up with a mortgage won't qualify. SO they are giving a free pass to people that are ignorant or greedy but if you lose your job it's too bad. The fact that these people are getting breaks from mortgage companies makes me sick. WHy aren't they being held accountable for their stupidity and/or greed. I still believe that this is now considered a crisis because of the demographic that it is hitting. Looking back I could have saved some money taking an ARM then asking my mortgage company to bail me out. Of course I would never do that but it is upsetting that stupidity/greed is being rewarded. This whole thing is absolute garbage. |
Vas Member Username: Vas
Post Number: 838 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:39 am: | |
Why would you bring the Detroit Public Schools into this? Iheartthed is right, a hothead trying to inflame a thread. Great like we need more of this behavior on this site. |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 475 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:20 pm: | |
The Fed provides liquidity to banks on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons" see - http://www.federalreserve.gov/ newsevents/press/monetary/2007 0810a.htm or - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ news?pid=20601087&refer=home&s id=aWvmnW7kB4rM The Fed buys/sells Treasury bonds, they raise lower the reserve ratio for banks, they infuse money into the banking system, etc. to adjust the money supply to the needs of the economy, ie stability or growth or inflation fears. Depends on the needs/situation. "Ever notice there is no Aaron's or Rent-a-center in B'ham or Grosse Pointe?" - Probably because they can get better stuff for less elsewhere. |