 
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:39 am: |    |
Had to go to Livonia today to pick up some parts for a project. Haven't been there since they canned the bus service. Outrageously long trip getting to Westland Mall and then biking up to Levan and Plymouth. Sure glad it was nice out. The 295 use to go to the front door of this place, but thats long gone. Use to take less than an hour one way, not this two-hour one way crap. So anyone been staying up to date on Livonia and SMART? |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 881
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:41 am: | |
What's to say? Livonia kicked out SMART, pure and simple. Not sure what you're asking here. Livonia has apparently decided it's not part of the metro area. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10559
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:45 am: | |
I would assume thos eparts could have been purchased elsewhere. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6712
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
Those Nazis in Nazi-Livonia opt out SMART because of money problems, EVIL Super Wal-Mart and dealing with blacks, preventing them from moving into their communities. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 256
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:24 am: | |
I believe SMART doesn't want black folks working or living in their community. I know some brothers who had to find an alternate way to get to work because of the cancelled bus service. They are still working out there but it's not easy for them. It's a blessing that SMART and DOT have the bike racks on them. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2498
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:33 am: | |
Yeah I don't know what he's asking either. There is nothing ongoing with the Livonia-SMART situation. Livonia simply lacks to funding to pay for a bus service its residents don't use. Plain and simple.
So you found it difficult to provide yourself with a means of transportation? Well, it's not easy for other people to provide you with a means of transportation either, especially when they are in debt themselves. Livonia is facing money problems like everywhere else. It's population is getting older and it's youth are leaving the state.
Beggars can't be choosers and you all should be grateful that Livonia's residents chose to shell out their own money to allow you to get around town for as long a they did.
Contrary to popular belief, you are NOT entitled to reach into their pockets, especially when many of them are struggling...
P |
Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:35 am: | |
the-ed, i dunno, i've never seen a bike rack on a DDot bus, only on SMART |
Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave
Post Number: 805
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:59 am: | |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Livonia just transfer the money sent to SMART to their own, city-only transportation system? There's the question: how is that doing? |
Johnnny5
Member
Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 628
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:00 am: | |
Calling Trainman! Trainman are you out there? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:06 am: | |
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Livonia just transfer the money sent to SMART to their own, city-only transportation system? There's the question: how is that doing?"
Per your request, I will correct you. Livonia retained a couple of little community transit buses to serve the less that 1% of the population that used SMART. These are mostly elderly folks who can't drive themselves to the doctor's or are living on fixed incomes and can't afford to drive.
And to answer your question, I suppose it's doing fine, though I don't know how your really measure how a good a community service is doing. It's really no different than providing water, police, or garbage pickup...all of Livonia's city services have always been good, including it's community transit service. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10561
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
Per the city of Livonia (I will look for sources later).
They originally intended to divert all of the SMART funding into a locally managed transit system to transport those that live and work in Livonia. The transit for workers was to run at minimal intervals around the rush hour times. The rest of the money would be used in other city projects. None is going back to the taxpayers.
I'm curious how much state funding Livonia gets for roads and other infrastructure. I'm sure they are willing to take State dollars for projects even if everyone is paying for that. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 882
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:16 am: | |
Actually, from what I've read most of the people who used SMART service were driving from other communities to jobs in Livonia. Now they use the DDOT Plymouth bus, which goes into Livonia and connects to the community transit. So Detroit is paying for the service to benefit Livonia businesses, strangely enough. I don't know if Livonia pays DDOT to provide the service, but I doubt it.
Thank God Detroit has enough money to subsidize bus service in struggling Livonia. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:49 am: | |
"I'm sure they are willing to take State dollars for projects even if everyone is paying for that."
Uh, yeah,of course they are. That is a no-brainer...so what's your point?
This isn't an issue of morality...its about balancing the city's budget...cutting the service and then sending the money back to the taxpayers wouldn't accomplish this, and neither would declining state funding... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10564
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
quote:Uh, yeah,of course they are. That is a no-brainer...so what's your point?
My point is that they claim they can't support others (SMART bus riders) but happily expect others to support them. I am not saying it is bad from Livonia's perspective to take the money just hypocritical.
quote:its about balancing the city's budget...
My understanding is that all of the SMART dollars will go to the Livonia transit and a few infrastrcuture projects. They are not reducing their budget by diverting the dollars. That is the important piece lost in many of these discussions. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2502
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:24 am: | |
"My point is that they claim they can't support others (SMART bus riders) but happily expect others to support them. I am not saying it is bad from Livonia's perspective to take the money just hypocritical. "
It's not hypocritical. They aren't saying that it's wrong to support others. They're saying they lack the funds to support others. And they're saying that those being supported do not have a RIGHT to be supported.
"My understanding is that all of the SMART dollars will go to the Livonia transit and a few infrastrcuture projects. They are not reducing their budget by diverting the dollars. That is the important piece lost in many of these discussions."
Ok, this is where I think most of your confusion lies. SOME of the money is going towards the local transit. If it were going to cost them the same thing, there'd be no reason to do this.
And you contradicted yourself with the last statement...the very fact that some of the money is going toward improving necessary infrastructure projects is precisely how this helps balance the budget. If you have two programs that cost money, but you lack the funds to pay for both, then by cutting one program and consolidating the funds into a single project, you've just helped your financial situation. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10566
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:31 am: | |
Yes, some is being diverted to infrastructure funds but the question is how much. Has the city ever released the allocation of the SMART dollars? If not I would be very curious to see what % is for the Livonia based transit. I believe that it was to be a large majority.
Of course we will see how the real finances work out after they close the books. I would be interested to see if that will become public knowledge. Given the fact that the city has not run their own transit system it may very well be something that faces large overruns.
Do you know who I may contact in the city to get a break down of the costs to see how much they are really saving based upon what % is going to the Livonia run transit system.
There will certainly be additional managment and middle management work/positions that will be required that SMART previsouly performed. There will be ongoing costs for maintenance to their assets, planning and logistics, etc. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2503
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:43 am: | |
^So your saying that you think they jumped through all the hoops to eliminate SMART just so they could end up in the same position they were in before? What would be the point of this?
If you're interested in getting a breakdown of the costs, you'll probably need to file a simple FOIA request and they should get you what you need.
(Message edited by thejesus on October 23, 2007) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10567
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:54 am: | |
I am not saying that was their intent but you have to question some of the esttimates when they are essentially getting into a new service business. These are the type of things that are often underestimated with a lot of 'soft costs' ignored.
I am not saying with certainty that they are paying the same but I suspect the savings to divert to infrastructure projects will be much lower than they originally planned.
SMART offered a lot fo shared expertise in logistics, maintenance, planning that Livonia will now have to absorb completely on their own. Leveraging these services across multiple cities offers a great benefit of scale. Livonia will have to create positions that were previously managed by SMART.
Never thought about the FOIA request. Good suggestion. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 684
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:16 pm: | |
I am doing a project for university on Livonia and how all Metro Detroit suburbs should have to have bus service and should have no option to opt out of a regional system.
As for how much is costing Livonia to run their own buses. It can't be much considering they only run like three trips in the morning, and three at night.
The system is not that large to need a whole bunch of managers, etc.
(Message edited by miketoronto on October 23, 2007) |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2504
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:19 pm: | |
"Never thought about the FOIA request. Good suggestion."
I did this (FOIA request)about 6 years ago to find out what the salaries were of Livonia's mayor and city council members... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10570
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:48 pm: | |
quote:I did this (FOIA request)about 6 years ago to find out what the salaries were of Livonia's mayor and city council members...
How is that stuff not public record for all elected officials, regardlesss of city? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2507
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
It is public record...I think the FOIA form just makes it simpler for all parties. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10572
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
Got it. Thanks. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 238
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:09 pm: | |
Forget SMART.
BUY A CAR! SUPPORT THE US ECONOMY.
No seriously. People come on here crying that not enough consumers are buying American cars and it's affecting the economy, and all this doom and gloom, then they come on here Crying over poor mass transit, the kind of transit that makes cars unneccesarry.
So which is it? Sorry, but I see what appears to be hypocrisy. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 688
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:18 pm: | |
Transit does not mean cars are not needed. Infact in healthy cities, people with cars are a large % of the transit riders. |
Udmphikapbob
Member
Username: Udmphikapbob
Post Number: 489
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:17 pm: | |
Contact Councilwoman Terry Godfroid-Marecki, she's one of the creators of the opt-out plan. IIRC, we (I live in Livonia) were sending $2.3 million annually to SMART. The Livonia Community Transit short buses are costing a few hundred thousand to run, and the rest is funneled into pet projects, er, "capitol improvements". I'd check whichever fire station and playground is closest to Mrs. G-M's house first. |
Udmphikapbob
Member
Username: Udmphikapbob
Post Number: 490
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:32 pm: | |
quote:The SMART Proposal
The Problem:
· The city of Livonia has lost 85 employees as the result of a three year old hiring freeze which has slowed city services.
· Health care costs increased by $488,000 dollars in 2005 while revenues increased by only $483,000 for shortfall of $5,000.
· There has been a capital outlay freeze for three years. As such, if Livonia is forced to replace a fire truck or make a major repair, it may be forced to lay off city employees and/or further cut city services.
· State shared revenues, which make up approximately 20% of the General Fund Budget have been cut or frozen every year for the past five years.
· Since interest rates are low, the amount of income that the city of Livonia receives from interest on bonds that it holds is down approximately $1,000,000.
· Revenue from building permits is down since new construction has slowed as the result of a sluggish economy.
The Plan:
· Keep and enhance bus services provided to seniors and disabled citizens who rely on the Livonia Community Transit program.
· Cut the large and long line haul buses, which travel empty throughout Livonia.
· Raise an additional $2,310,000 per year to provide transportation services to seniors and disabled citizens as well as needed capital outlay, such as fire trucks and ambulances.
· Cut taxes for Livonia taxpayers by 1/10 of a mill.
How can you cut taxes and bring more tax revenue to the city of Livonia?
Pass a tax of 5/10 of a mill for Livonia: + 5/10
Cut your SMART tax of 6/10 of a mill: - 6/10
Net Tax Cut -1/10
Important:
· The 5/10 of a mill Livonia tax to operate a Livonia transportation system will only take effect if the City Council withdraws from SMART and cuts your taxes.
· If the City Council fails to withdraw from SMART you will not have a Livonia tax increase.
· If the City Council does not withdraw from SMART you will not receive a tax cut.
· Only if the SMART proposal is adopted, will Livonia raise an additional $2,310,000 per year to provide transportation services to seniors and disabled citizens and provide more needed capital outlay, such as fire trucks and ambulances.
Questions?
If you have any questions or comments, please contact us at:
Councilman Don Knapp
Councilmember Terry Godfroid-Marecki
|
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 321
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
It's sort of Ironic that you never find Trainman when a Livonia/Smart thread comes about. |
Fordaspiregv
Member
Username: Fordaspiregv
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:05 pm: | |
I still don't know why you guys don't give Plymouth, Northville and Canton a hard time about SMART. SMART used to service Canton at one time, and like Livonia, discontinued the service.
Its not fair that this is being brought up all the time when other communities are not being cited for the same offense.
I am sorry you can't take the bus to Livonia, but the voters have spoken. At least Livonia citizens had a choice, unlike Jenny's new income tax hike. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 692
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:08 pm: | |
All the suburbs that opted out should be given a hard time. And on top of that residents should not be voting on basic services.
The bus service should be provided regardless.
Whats next a vote on fire service?
As far as I know, Michigan and other US states are the only places in the world where people vote on if to operate public transit or not.
It is a stupid bylaw and the faster it is taken down, and mandated that all Metro Detroit suburbs get buses, the better. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2516
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:35 pm: | |
"I still don't know why you guys don't give Plymouth, Northville and Canton a hard time about SMART."
Because there's no substance to the reason they're giving Livonia a hard time. They all read something in the paper 4 years ago that some Livonia resident showed up to a city council meeting and made a racially insensitive comment, so now Livonia is the #2 poster child for white racism and hatred of Detroit, right after Troy.
So you see, they don't really have that big of a problem with the lack of bus service to Livonia...rather, they simply love to hate on Livonia |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 241
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
"so now Livonia is the #2 poster child for white racism and hatred of Detroit, right after Troy."
Since when did Troy have this reputation. I lived there for years and this is the first I've heard of it. Troy is a diverse city. So please cite specific cases. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10592
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:04 pm: | |
quote:Because there's no substance to the reason they're giving Livonia a hard time. They all read something in the paper 4 years ago that some Livonia resident showed up to a city council meeting and made a racially insensitive comment, so now Livonia is the #2 poster child for white racism and hatred of Detroit, right after Troy.
Says the guy that stereotypes Detroiters as anti-white, racist criminals in tons of posts.
Hello Pot. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2519
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
^no, I'm the guy who stereotypes Detroiters as being anti-suburbs...
the other stuff you just completely made up...or you have me confused with someone else |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2520
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:12 pm: | |
"Since when did Troy have this reputation. I lived there for years and this is the first I've heard of it. Troy is a diverse city. So please cite specific cases."
To Detroiters, Troy is the poster child for all that is wrong with SE Michigan..hang around here long enough and you'll see what I mean |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10593
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 4:36 pm: | |
quote:To Detroiters, Troy is the poster child for all that is wrong with SE Michigan..hang around here long enough and you'll see what I mean
More generalizations from someone that has probably never spoken to a Detroiter that lived outside of the greater downtown area. Staying true to your biased, non-sensical opinions. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6726
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 6:42 am: | |
Udmphikapbob,
Cut the SMART bus system In Nazi-Livonia to prevent a tax increase. That proposal is "AD MISERACORDIAM!" Lot's of businesses in Nazi-Livonia have lost a lot of jobs especially the African American workforce that help shape that plesantville community. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6727
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 7:09 am: | |
Great Post Miketoronto,
Public transit is need for a clean enviromental friendly service and not for public trouble. I know some folks in Nazi-Livonia who have cars, but can't drive because their cars broke down either from engine trouble or a simple accident, traffic violations and various health problems. That last year, the vote to opt out SMART in Livonia are mostly the racist middle class white folks who don't want to have higher taxes and the people who want keep SMART bus system in Nazi-Livonia are the elderly people and other businesses.
NOTE: Do you know that Gov. William Woodbridge, a progressive reformer started a proposal called Initiative, where people can vote any services to be cut or be provided. Referendum, where politicians can vote to have any proposal to be cut or be provided and RECALL, where people can sign a petition to recall any political leader of he/she did poorly in their first year in office.
So far that proposal has passed by the Michigan Legislature and it used today. Opting out the SMART bus system from Nazi-Livonia was a initiative by the voters of people due their reason and theirs nothing we could do to stop it. It would take a initiative decision from the people of Nazi-Livonia ONLY to opt in the SMART bus system and its NOT going to happen until we the people in the metro Detroit area step up the reform these people from out of their racist minds. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 270
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 8:50 am: | |
Danny-
Please stop reffering to Livonia as NAZI Livonia. The NAZI rounded up 12 million people, murdered them and either buried the corpses in mass graves or burned the bodies.
The citizens of Livonia by a vote of 10+ thousand vs 8 + thousand opted out of a program that didn't make financial sense for them.
They didn't kill anybody and they didn't cremate anybody.
Comparing Livonia's decision to not fund SMART to mass murder belittles those that were slaughtered. Please stop. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 544
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 3:23 pm: | |
It was the lack of leadership in Lansing that cost all of us together in metro Detroit to lose SMART bus service. Transit officials came to the transit supportive city of Livonia and did an excellent job working with area businesses to attract more riders.
(Message edited by Trainman on October 28, 2007) |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6728
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 8:58 pm: | |
Gnome,
Nazi-Livonia has a ver bad rep on race issues and it remains to this day the only WHITEST suburb in the metro-Detroit. Those folks want to keep it that way in a pleasantville manner. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 271
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 9:41 pm: | |
Danny-
There has never been a mass murder in the City of Livonia that I know of. Certainly not one based the extermination of an entire race or ethnic group.
If you have any, I repeat, any information that would support your claim that the citizens of Livonia support or harbor NAZI sympathizers, please be so kind and let us all know.
I take the threat of NAZI's quite personally and I want to know the factual basis for your claims. Dates, incident, names, web links. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 545
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:16 pm: | |
The SMART buses were nearly full on the Middlebelt 285 route in the mornings and late afternoons. The SMART buses ran on time. There is presently industry support along this route to get SMART to return.
What is desperately needed at this time is mass transit leadership in Lansing to make it more attractive to get communities to join county transit authorities. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 888
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:17 pm: | |
Train,
Do you know why Wayne and Oakland counties decided to allow communities to opt out? Livonia is perhaps the most well known but lots of communities have opted out and a few have opted in who weren't in originally. In addition to Livonia, you have Lathrup Village, Rochester, Rochester Hills, and others.
Macomb County, on the other hand, did it all or nothing: either the entire county gets transit or the entire county does not. So in every City, Village and Township in Macomb County, there is some kind of transit service, from curbside reservation to fixed-route. Therefore SMART's revenue is more reliable and predictable, and there aren't weird gaps in the bus route maps.
If Wayne and Oakland had done it - or do it in the future - like Macomb did, I have no doubt transit service would come to every community in those Counties as it is in Macomb, and the 285 would return, and more.
Oh, and Danny - please cut out the Nazi references. Voting not to have bus service or choosing to live in an ethnically non-diverse community is nothing like the systematic slaughter of millions of defenseless people, and your use of that term in this context is sickening. We get your point: Livonia is more heavily Caucasian than you think it ought to be. Okay, I agree. But that doesn't make the reference appropriate.
Prof. Scott |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 716
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
I just talked with my urban planning professor about this opt out issue in Metro Detroit, as we just had a lecture about giving the community some power to help plan.
And she even said this opt out situation is not good and should not be allowed to happen, as votes like this do nothing to make life better for the community. They are just allow people to vote on issues they know hardly anything about and that does nothing to address the real issues. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 898
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:49 am: | |
Hm. The list of threads says Train just posted, but I don't see his post. Bummer. Hopefully it will pop up shortly. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 280
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:49 am: | |
MikeInToronto-
It sounds like your professor doesn't have a problem expressing an opinion about something they know nothing about. I guess that's ok for a PhD but not for the folks that foot the bill. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 718
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 9:31 am: | |
Actually so far everyone I have talked to about this issue, says it is Michigan that has it wrong and does not know what it is talking about.
American cities are the only cities that allow suburbs to vote on transit. If you have a regional system, then you get buses. I have never heard of voting on something like a bus.
The buses should be running down the roads of Livonia no matter what the local population says.
When the region on Waterloo did a massive transit expansion a couple years ago, a rich suburb in Waterloo City was upset that a bus was going to go down their local street instead of on the main road. they faught it, and lost, because the region of Waterloo felt transit that is only a 5min walk from people's homes instead of a 15min walk(by sticking to main roads) was more important. Their rational was that the system is a regional transit system and everone is going to have transit within close walking distance to their homes. Today the buses continue to run down those local streets, and the residents are doing just fine.
Sometimes the government has to take a lead. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 9:52 am: | |
Mike-
There are two bus systems in the Metro region: DDOT and SMART. They are in competition with one another and constantly fight and squabble.
The solution is to have a single bus system, but the dear citizens of Detroit refuse to even meaningfully discuss the issue.
Just recently we almost came to blows when Wayne County Sheriffs were placed on DDOT buses to stem the wave of attacks on drivers and law abiding passengers. The hue and cry was that the suburbs were going to take over DDOT and steal the bus system from Detroit. Joann Watson's claim that the plain to have the Wayne County Sheriff riding shotgun was an attempt to turn Detroit into a Plantation!
WTF?
The City Council finally gave in when the DDOT bus drivers went on a one day wildcat strike.
Face it Mike, the Council will never agree to Regional cooperation. You want the government to take the lead and then you blame Livonia voters for saying, "This shit is too broke to keep pouring money down a drain."
The truth of the matter is that the voters in Livonia did take the lead, but "top down" government sycophants aren't listening. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3623
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 9:56 am: | |
quote:American cities are the only cities that allow suburbs to vote on transit. If you have a regional system, then you get buses. I have never heard of voting on something like a bus.
Actually, Detroit is the only area I know of--even in the U.S.--where localities can opt out of transit service. The resulting service speaks for itself. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6740
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 10:17 am: | |
Gnome,
Is it better for Naz--I mean- Pleasantville Livonia, Canton TWP, Northville, Northville TWP. and Novi to opt out from the SMART bus system? Or maybe fewer white folks don't want ant ghetto mess from the big African American communities in Detroit?
Our public transportation in Michigan is now both an initiative and a referendum decision. Obiously we the people of Michigan are acting like a bunch of Mississippians. We want economic development but instead we're fearing other international companies. Most of them are afraid of Michigan because of our problems. If we want better jobs we have to move out of Michigan go to another state or city. |
Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch
Post Number: 1049
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | |
quote:Actually, Detroit is the only area I know of--even in the U.S.--where localities can opt out of transit service. The resulting service speaks for itself.
Maybe some of us opted out BECAUSE of the service.( or lack of ) |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 547
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 9:37 pm: | |
Our county commissioners voted whether we could opt out our not. In Macomb County only they voted to not allow communities to opt. out.
We as a majority helped to allow the present situation that broke apart public bus service as we did not get written accords in place first to protect all funding permanently. We need good competitive public mass transit to attract good jobs.
The FTA database documents the statistics and industries like sports fans keep track of the scores. The good mass transit leadership we deserve in Lansing is just not there, which unfortunately is exactly why Livonia lost the good on time bus service that SMART provided.
The property tax for SMART can work very well but it takes investments and industry support to do this. Hopefully, we will vote in leaders that can understand this and take the necessary actions to improve our public bus systems like actually allocate state funds for more buses and new technology for example, so cities like Livonia and Canton will want to opt. in |
Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 7:09 am: | |
thankfully, SMART-livonia was still operational during a time when I worked there and had no car. that 295 was ALways packed, mainly with blacks, people going to work. to ride the "community transit" you must make a reservation, and the little shuttle has specific pick-up times which makes it nearly impossible to catch a ride. since the switchover, i have never seen more than one person on that shuttlebus. i am sure that it's working just great for livonia. and i hope that their oil drilling works fantastically. i also look forward to the time when they (livonia) get payback for dissin the metro area. the SMART system is essential as it is our only means of public trans. by the way, DDOT only goes to Middlebelt. the vast majority of livonia business is well west of Middlebelt. there is no reasonable excuse for the axing of the 295. none.
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 556
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 11:59 am: | |
Quote
i also look forward to the time when they (livonia) get payback for dissin the metro area
End of Quote
The city of Livonia will never get payback. Many of us worked hard to keep the large buses for a long time.
Unfortunately, the mass transit leadership we presently have in Lansing SUCKS. The few who claim to support mass transit are obviously not from or represent Livonia and they refuse public debates because they want your vote first, then they will support their special interest friends, if elected. These people have little knowledge about mass transit and promote false propagandas. They just want to impose new or increased taxes on fast food or services on the local or county level to raise vast sums of money.
Hopefully, we will get the real mass transit leadership essential to improve and expand passenger bus and rail service soon to attract decent jobs and tourists. |