  Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 85 Registered: 04-2007 |
With all of the natural disasters, such as fires, floods, etc., occurring around the country, have you given any thought to your reaction if a natural disaster or man-made one occurred locally. Where would you evacuate to? And what would you take with you? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1235 Registered: 12-2005 |
Unfortunately, like most waterfront population centers, our evacuation route directions are limited to only half of the compass. When Houston residents were told to evacuate ahead of Hurricane Rita in 2005, they created gridlock as they all tried to head in directions away from the approaching storm. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1847 Registered: 12-2005 |
.........and ran out of fuel at the gas stations that were at each exit along the way. The emergency officials did not authorize the use of in inbound lanes for emergency evacuation soon enough (EMS/fire to use the shoulder) and there were little or no plans for towing breakdowns, e.g. having roll-backs arranged to be stationed at regular intervals, connected by radio. It was a mess. My cousin tried to leave as instructed with her husband, who requires regular kidney dialysis, her mother and children. After 18 hours of going nowhere they turned around and went home and braved the storm, which thankfully wasn't as bad as predicted. Houston really pointed out the problems to be solved with such evacuations, I'm sure the Bush team is right on it. (Sarcasm) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3867 Registered: 02-2005 |
This is Michigan, nothing crazy happens. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2510 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Unfortunately, like most waterfront population centers, our evacuation route directions are limited to only half of the compass." lucky for you guys, there are plenty of freeways and avenues that will easily take you far, far away from the city in any direction except towards the water. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 850 Registered: 08-2007 |
"This is Michigan, nothing crazy happens." October 5, 1966, the new Fermi breeder reactor in Monroe had a partial meltdown, and an unknown amount of radioactive release into the atmosphere. News was quiet and no one was evacuated. Some time later, after the seriousness of the accident was realized, significant evacuation plans were discussed. John Grant Fuller wrote a book, We Almost Lost Detroit, castigating the nuclear industry. There is a description of the accident here (page 205) by Philip Smith: http://tinyurl.com/yt4jjy | ||
Southofeight Member Username: Southofeight Post Number: 111 Registered: 07-2005 |
Hasn't there been an ongoing evacuation in this city since, I don't know, the late-60s? | ||
Karl_jr Member Username: Karl_jr Post Number: 141 Registered: 06-2007 |
yea, it's damn near already evacuated! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1969 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hasn't there been an ongoing evacuation in this city since, I don't know, the late-60s? Mid 50s. | ||
Mkhopper Member Username: Mkhopper Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2006 |
I think a total city evacuation would be a hopeless case. Even opening up all freeway corridors to route in a single direction would still result in a whole lot of nobody going nowhere fast. Picture the roads during the blackout a few years ago, and that wasn't even considered an 'emergency' in the sense that there was a threat to life and limb. I think it's sad to say, but anyone in the city would be incinerated, drowned, gassed, irradiated or other long before they even reached the city limits. There just aren't enough ways to get out. Maybe the first Sunday of every month, at noon, should be "get the hell out in a hurry" practice?, he asked facetiously. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1972 Registered: 04-2006 |
Picture the roads during the blackout a few years ago, and that wasn't even considered an 'emergency' in the sense that there was a threat to life and limb. That's a bit different because it wasn't an evacuation. People weren't trying to get out, they were trying to go home. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10812 Registered: 12-2003 |
Being the contrarian that I am, I'd have to go to the water...on a sailboat, about 22-24 feet long...with a few solar panels recharging the batteries the trolling night motor would require. You can fit quite a bit in a sailboat, although it always wants to go downwind. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 330 Registered: 09-2007 |
THe only natural disaster I can picture for all of SE Michigan would deal with Deadly industrial Chemicals (the weather is boring, we're not flood prone or hurricane prone, the air's typically too moist for fires). It shouldnt be too bad though. There's ways to get out of here E-W- and -S. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1390 Registered: 02-2006 |
You can't compare to the blackout, because traffic control devices weren't working, so every intersection becomes a 4-way stop. There are plenty of roads out of Detroit. First thing I'd do if I needed to leave the city would be to hit the old radial roads. Screw the interstates. I'd be going 60 down Grand River, laughing at the gridlock on 96. In fact, since I currently live in Chicago, I would MUCH rather be in Detroit for evacuation purposes. The same processes that encouraged suburbia made for very easy evacuation. Whereas here, I can't easily evacuate on Metra (I suppose I could, but what happens when I get to the last station?) (Message edited by focusonthed on October 24, 2007) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2833 Registered: 10-2003 |
Geez, Gannon you stole my post. I'm leaving on a 45 foot sailboat. (why forsake luxury just because the world is ending.) I'll be towing my 15 foot powerboat behind. Modern sailboats go upwind just fine. Just not directly upwind. This isn't the 17th century where you'd have had to wait for a trailing wind. They are slowest dead down wind and stopped dead upwind. You never want to take a sailboat directly up or down wind. They're fastest with the wind flowing 45degrees over the front. Sailing racers generate polar charts of the boat speed to the wind's angle and speed. From this information you can calculate your Velocity made good (VMG) for any wind speed and direction the boat will encounter. Yes, one of my hobbies is racing sailboats. I'm currently looking for a boat for next season. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 332 Registered: 09-2007 |
"There are plenty of roads out of Detroit. First thing I'd do if I needed to leave the city would be to hit the old radial roads. Screw the interstates. I'd be going 60 down Grand River, laughing at the gridlock on 96." Eh, Avenues wouldn't be your best bet either. They were also gridlock since they run right along the major interstates, people would have thought of that idea long before you had. Besides, you will have to get on it eventually because our Avenues only go so far. The craziness of our society that confuses me is why don't we as a human race prepare for the worst so when it comes there wouldn't be as much havoc? I mean half of the traffic from the blackout were caused by dummies with damn near empty tanks in the driving lanes. If y'all kept those tanks full, then we wouldn't have had to deal with that issue. Then there's the emergency items. Why didn't everyone have those items knowing something like that could happen at anytime. It's just craziness in my opinion. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10585 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: My wife. Everything else is merely a possession that may be replaced. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2834 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You're assuming the power infrastructure won't or hasn't failed in said emergency. When the power did go out the only streets moving were the freeways. They don't rely on electricity to operate. The only places they bogged down were places where a great deal of people were exiting back to surface streets. During the blackout I made it from Auburn hills back to downtown in the same amount of time it takes me to get home on a busy traffic day. Most of my suburban co-workers were not so lucky. Most of them took much longer to get home due the the failed traffic signals. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 278 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ndavies, you're right... back when I lived with the 'rents and worked in Farmington, it took me 2 hours to get home. Something like 5 miles on Middlebelt Rd. Detroit doesn't have major natural disasters... We'll never get the Bomb dropped on us because we're too close to Canada (wouldn't want to piss off two countries if you're gonna do something like THAT). Fermi seeems like the only real threat. What else... Earthquake? Once every 2000 years we get something like a 5.6 or greater. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10587 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: And relatively insignificant on a US or global scale. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 1005 Registered: 09-2005 |
Well, several major automakers are headquartered in Detroit and those automakers still control a significant portion of North America's manufacturing capacity -- something that would be very important if ever the USA (or Canada) had to fight a war on its own soil. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2835 Registered: 10-2003 |
Don't kid yourselves, Detroit is at the top of the list for nukes from Russia or China. We have idled plants that could be brought back on line. We are surrounded by working auto plants that could be quickly converted to munitions production. We have one of the largest concentrations of industrial, mechanical and electrical engineers in the world. We have a large number of embedded software engineers. We have some of the largest R&D facilities for mechanical products. We have a couple of large steel mills not running at anywhere near full capacity. We are a leader in manufacturing logistics. We have large underutilized docks and airports. Detroit would become very important in a world war. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3223 Registered: 10-2003 |
If there was a major catastrophe and people in Michigan were frightened, you KNOW they'd all head North. Just look at where wanted criminals flee after a crime. Talk about a fudgie invasion! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10589 Registered: 10-2003 |
NDavies - Good points. You certainly changed my mind. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3224 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ndavies, don't forget about Williams International. http://www.williams-int.com/co ntact.html I've always heard it was a high-priority target for the Russians in the Cold War. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4267 Registered: 10-2003 |
IMO, the greatest and most possible natural disaster we face would be a prolonged ice storm with high winds. The electrical backbone would be broken for weeks, the roads next to impassible from fallen trees and power lines, and gas stations with out power. Ndavies and Gannon would find their boats iced in and everyone would be pretty much frozen in place. Now toss in a meltdown at Fermi and we would have a huge mess with NO evacuation possible. Probably the best escape vehicle would be motorcycle, particularly a dirt bike. That would open rail lines as an option or allow one to weave through stalled gridlocked cars on the roads. Pistols for protection from pirates and cigarettes for currency should also go in the survivor backpack. Cheery thoughts eh?  | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 337 Registered: 09-2007 |
Lowell, I really think SE Michigan can take the worst that Mother Nature gives them. We have some o fthe craziest weather in the country (when it comes to how it changes). However, I don't think people in Metro Detroit would be as badly affected as the ones in Toledo or Port Huron by a Fermi Meltdown. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 3050 Registered: 11-2003 |
So, stock up on the canned food and shotguns?  | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 852 Registered: 08-2007 |
A Fermi problem would cut off the southern evac route. I like going up north, but don't you think being stuck between the lakes would be a bit of a problem? If you couldn't get across Mighty Mac, the only routes would be back this way in case of problems up there. And of course, once you are in the UP, the only way out that isn't dependent on a bridge or ferries is west. Don't discount fires in this area. Much of the lumbered areas burned over in the 1870s and again in the early part of the 1900s. WHole towns were wiped out. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1735 Registered: 11-2003 |
And there was the huge fire in the Newberry area of the UP this summer. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2007 |
If something catastrophic were to happen in SE Michigan, I doubt there are any regional or citywide emergency plans waiting to be implemented. Many other states, regions, and cities have these sorts of plans. Some of them are very intricate. SE Michigan, however, is not organized at all in this regard. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1736 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: You doubt. Meaning you don't know. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 853 Registered: 08-2007 |
In this 2006 Report, Detroit gets an F for Evacuation Capacity, along with 20 other cities including Denver, Atlanta and Chicago. Among 37 cities rated, Detroit ranked 28. http://www.highways.org/pdfs/e vacuation_report_card2006.pdf | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 1064 Registered: 08-2004 |
There was a section in the Free Press back in the mid 80's depicting what would happen if a nuclear bomb went off (airburst) above Tiger Stadium. It went into damage predictions, targets of interest (auto plants, TACOM, etc.). It was pretty interesting. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 915 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm reminded of the movie "Airplane" when the flight attendant said "Alright now everybody, get in crash positions." I'm think I'm going to go that route and just start screaming. If nothing else it takes the least effort. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 344 Registered: 09-2007 |
'I'm reminded of the movie "Airplane" when the flight attendant said 'Alright now everybody, get in crash positions.' That would be sort of pointless considering if a plane is crashing, chances are everyone will either get hurt or (god forbids) die. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4268 Registered: 10-2003 |
Chicago is in even a worse position that the D in an ice storm + nuclear meltdown scenario... it is ringed by three nukes has much denser population and less surface evacuation routes. Ice storms tend to get overlooked because one has never really hit a major US metropolitan area. Consider the great mainly Quebec ice storm of 1998... "For six days in January 1998, freezing rain coated Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick with 7-11 cm (3-4 in) of ice. Trees and hydro wires fell and utility poles and transmission towers came down causing massive power outages, some for as long as a month. It was the most expensive natural disaster in Canada [history]. According to Environment Canada, the ice storm of 1998 directly affected more people than any other previous weather event in Canadian history. Date: January 5-10, 1998" source: http://canadaonline.about.com/ cs/weather/p/icestorm.htm I can't find a source now, but I once read that cold is the biggest cause of death among natural disasters, but doesn't appears so as it is spread out in individual cases, like heart attacks from shoveling now, related car accidents etc. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2007 |
Susanarosa, "I doubt" meaning "lack of faith" in MI leadership. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3609 Registered: 12-2005 |
I'm curious what would happen if a tornado were to head directly into downtown Detroit. Would the buildings disrupt the airflow enough to dissipate the tornado? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 347 Registered: 09-2007 |
"I'm curious what would happen if a tornado were to head directly into downtown Detroit. Would the buildings disrupt the airflow enough to dissipate the tornado?" Probably not if the dynamics are perfect and the instability is there (like it would have been that night that Michigan had that Tornado Outbreak). However, 3 tornados did actually hit downtown if you want to get technical. It just wasn't to the extent Nashville's or Salt Lake City's tornado(s). | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 279 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: You mean SOUTH to Canada, right Johnlodge? ;-) | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 607 Registered: 04-2006 |
that ranking system doesn't seem to take in CHANCE of a major catastrophe... Earthquake? nope Terrorist Attack? I doubt it MAYBE on the bridge... but not IN the city... Nuke? Low risk... we only have one plant and it is far away SERIOUS Flooding? nope Hurricane? hell no. Tsunami? " Tornados are basically the only thing we need to worry about... and they aren't a great risk... why do people keep moving to places with higher degrees of risk? i don't know... | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 351 Registered: 09-2007 |
Andylinn, people would do anything for luxuries (money, economy, etc.). Apparently, SE Michigan isn't luxurious enough for them. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 484 Registered: 07-2007 |
i would head to the manoogian | ||
Clark1mt Member Username: Clark1mt Post Number: 101 Registered: 06-2005 |
Other than the random tornado, a catastrophe at Fermi would be worst. And the distance isn't a big factor. A release of radiation would ride the winds, which would most likely be towards the north and/or east. Winds in the right direction would put large areas of the metro area in a fallout zone. Of course, the wind can blow in any direction, but at least above about 1km above ground, the wind almost always is blowing in a direction between east and north. This kind of consideration applies to any facility that handles hazardous materials. Think Bhopal. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3613 Registered: 12-2005 |
The Bhopal disaster | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 280 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit's industry might be struggling -- but we have higher standards than in 1980s India, and there isn't a pesticide factory in Detroit. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3619 Registered: 12-2005 |
Agreed. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1639 Registered: 11-2003 |
Have a plan. Hope it works. In any big urban area, even if they use all roads in "reverse" fashion only, you can still predict chaos. Breakdowns, accidents, etc. And depending on the severity of the situation, who knows what else. Radiation would make people desperate. You'd see people stealing other's cars, shooting people on sight, etc. Sometimes you wonder if it is worth even bothering. I live in Chicago now. I'm hoping if something happens I could maybe get out. But I'm pretty realistic. You can't move 3 million city dwellers N S or W all at the same time. It just won't happen. Probably best to hit the ground on foot. Driving would be useless. Trains too (assuming they'd even run). I'd probably grab a bit of food, a backpack, some shells and my shotgun and be on my way. Especially living pretty much in the loop, I probably wouldn't make it very far. So goes life. I hope nothing serious ever happens. And if it does, that most people end up okay. But I refuse to live my life fearing that type of stuff. Just be ready. I'm so much more likely to die doing a zillion other things I do every day than a catastrophe. Not saying it couldn't happen, just saying I like to keep the odds in mind when I think about that kinda stuff. Kinda like people get all worked up over West Nile virus cause a few people die from it each year. The chances of even getting sick, much less dying are so small. More people probably die in a week from pneumonia than from west nile. Yet we never get breaking news alerts for pneumonia. We don't really worry much about pneumonia, but lots of people are afraid of west nile, specifically because they see it on the news. Be smart, enjoy life, remember the odds, and be ready. Really, beyond that, there isn't anything else you can possibly do. Oh, and in relation to the blackout, I'd like to think an evacuation would go more smoothly being that you could decree "all roads one way out" as opposed to gridlocked intersections. However, you gotta figure everyone on E/W streets is gonna have to turn N/S or vice versa, and each of those intersections is gonna be a mess. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1392 Registered: 02-2006 |
Jerome81, no doubt. Chicago would be screwed. Good thing I have a motorcycle! Assuming the trains weren't running, I'd ride it up the stairs/elevator at a Metra station and ride the empty rails out of town, like Lowell said. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2006 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Talk about a fudgie invasion!" jeezus dont say that... |
