 
Fjw718
Member
Username: Fjw718
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:58 pm: |    |
I lived here through it. We lost more freedom of speech, assembly and expression in that period than any other time....the cops were out of control, acting like criminals without fear of repercussion....clubs, galleries and lounges were all cracked down on.
all in the name of a crime drop that was in line with what the rest of the country saw.
oh, and we got the disneyfication of our city.......great.
but now theres no graffitti on the subways! yipeee! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3216
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:01 pm: | |
"ugggh, if you really think its the homeless that keeps people away from detroit......"
PG's post above pretty much sums it up.
As a lot of people say on here, perception is a big deal for the city. If I try to take friends or relatives who haven't been to Detroit in who knows how long downtown to show them how much things have changed, and they are accosted 10 times between the car and Fox town, they ain't buying it. They'll remember the zero times they were accosted/threatened/begged at between their car and Somerset, and stick to what they're comfortable with. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2982
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
^^have you asked them what stands out in their minds, without prompting about any panhandlers? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3217
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:06 pm: | |
Depends who it is. Some people deal with it better than others. Detroit can't afford to be that selective, though. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4216
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:07 pm: | |
Fjw718 -
Your definition of success I guess differs from most people, you really think that people in NYC would prefer a return to the Dinkins days?
I guess you preferred the version of Times Square that was a haven for dope dealers, hookers, porn houses and criminals. You did have the right to get stabbed on the subway I guess.
I have never heard anyone accusing Rudy of suppressing free speech and freedom of assembly, someone should have told Al Sharpton about that. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2983
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:25 pm: | |
PG, what *is* your definition of success, in general? |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4220
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:41 pm: | |
A great city should have the following attributes in no particular order:
Low crime rate
Strong sense of community regardless of race or ethnic mix
Good city services
Good schools
Economic opportunities and jobs
Good, affordable housing
Good retail and shopping districts
Clean and well maintained
Decent transportation and roads
Good parks and playgrounds
Recreational opportunities and good lodging
Quality infrastructure
Access to a good airport
Have a good rapport with suburbs and the region
State of the art hospitals and medical facilities
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on October 23, 2007) |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2984
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:45 pm: | |
Now what is it on a personal level - what defines a successful life? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3218
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:50 pm: | |
/threadjack |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1495
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
THREADJACKTHREADJACKTHREADJACK THREADJACK |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4221
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:04 pm: | |
John, it is a threadjack and I understand the game Lilpup is playing. I will end the jack here. In no particular order, success on a personal level:
Strong family ties
Good health
Love of country
Having fun, being happy
Educating yourself
Good job, financial security
Following your dreams
Helping others in the community
Leaving the world a little bit better than you found it
Lilpup -
If you are trying to imply that wanting to enforce laws and keeping the bums out of certain areas means you don't care about them then you are wrong.
They should receive help, but asking private businesses to be homeless shelters is not the answer. Nor is allowing them to further erode the image of the city which makes matters worse.
With increased prosperity in the area we can offer more options to help them. If they are mentally ill, maybe we need to go back to having state homes and mental health facilities. Folks on both sides of the aisle got rid of them in an attempt to mainstream the mentally ill but maybe that was a bad idea.
In the meantime, Detroit needs dollars. Businesses that have invested in the area and are employing people need to be protected. |
Fjw718
Member
Username: Fjw718
Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:07 pm: | |
protected? from what? people that dont have homes?
i cant stand people who are bothered by homeless/panhandlers.
it is a part of EVERY major urban city in the states....and it happens A LOT
I get hit up for cash on average 3x a day in NYC.....big deal |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4223
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:11 pm: | |
Protected as in ensuring they can do business without having people chasing their customers away. You like getting hit up? Good for you. Most people don't and given the choice they will frequent areas where they don't need to put up with it. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2985
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:23 pm: | |
Panhandlers are not Detroit's primary problem. Panhandlers will not keep people away.
Your less than neutral focus on them reveals a lot about yourself.
(Message edited by lilpup on October 23, 2007) |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4225
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:26 pm: | |
quote:Panhandlers are not Detroit's primary problem.
Right, crime is. But they ARE a problem that relates to issue #1.
quote:Panhandlers will not keep people away.
Totally incorrect. They already have.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on October 23, 2007) |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5235
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:26 pm: | |
PG just hope and PRAY that you never find yourself in that position. Majority of Americans whether they choose to believe it or not are one or two paychecks away from being homeless...q |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3219
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:28 pm: | |
"i cant stand people who are bothered by homeless/panhandlers."
The fact is a lot of people ARE bothered by being panhandled/threatened/accosted five times between their car and the baseball game. They don't stop to worry about what Fjw718 thinks about it. It would be one thing if it was "can you spare some change"? But when it is a whole spiel, and they follow and walk with you, and sometimes are aggressive, that's different. Now, that's the street, and that's a little different, but in a private business establishment? They have every right to throw that out in order to keep their clientele from being unnecessarily hassled. Just like they have the right to throw out some guy who's drank too much and is being abrasive towards customers. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4226
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:29 pm: | |
quote:PG just hope and PRAY that you never find yourself in that position. Majority of Americans whether they choose to believe it or not are one or two paychecks away from being homeless...q
Wrong. Most people are NOT 2 paychecks away from being homeless. If I ever did find myself in that position which I won't, I wouldn't be pestering people at the casino, I would be too busy trying to get a job. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3220
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:33 pm: | |
DS I do have sympathy, but you do have to draw practical lines. Especially when dealing with as daunting of a task as trying to revitilize Detroit. Having shelters, providing food, doing things that help people back onto their feet, that is all good an useful. Allowing people to be hassled when they are out for a night of entertainment/romance/etc. in private establishments in the city does not help anybody involved. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5236
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:35 pm: | |
I mean I do agree with alot of what is said here JL. It is just he manner in which it is being said yanno? |
Iseries840
Member
Username: Iseries840
Post Number: 505
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:35 pm: | |
A lot of these begging creeps are not even really homeless. It is just a hustle to trick you into giving them cash. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3221
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:40 pm: | |
"I mean I do agree with alot of what is said here JL. It is just he manner in which it is being said yanno?"
Yeah, I know. The people/problem should not be ignored or swept under a rug. But we do have to try to make the entertainment destinations in the city safe, fun, happy places for people to go and spend their money. So, somehow we have to try to consider both. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5237
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:44 pm: | |
Agreed. But when you have assholes like PG spewing ignorance then someone has to slam his ass back to reality... |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4227
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:50 pm: | |
quote:I mean I do agree with alot of what is said here JL. It is just he manner in which it is being said yanno?
Yeah, we need to mind our p's and q's on these internet forums. Heaven forbid we should allow it to become a place where people can have a frank discussion without the PC police looking over our shoulders. It would be much better if we held back our true feelings on these matters.
Ironic that you are so worried about manners Stylin, you sure as hell are not too polite yourself most of the time. You rant on and call people cowards, punk asses, circle jerks, repugnican, racists, neandercons, jack offs, small minded fucks to name a few. And you say I spew ignorance?
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on October 23, 2007) |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5239
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:52 pm: | |
PG I meant is sense that you come off as an overpriviledged asshole who feel the homeless should be sent of to some concentration camp somewhere...
Is that clear enough for you? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2986
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:58 pm: | |
"without the PC police looking over our shoulders"
"PerfectGentleman," you're seriously confusing "PC" with common humanity |
Edziu
Member
Username: Edziu
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 6:50 pm: | |
I would rather give a panhandler a fin rather than a slot machine. At least they say "Thank You" |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 273
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:19 pm: | |
How about a 50% tax on the casinos that will go to building new shelters? That would solve the problem. Those idiots who say "take them to the shelter" have no clue. Do you think that we have even a tenth of the shelter space that we need to take care of our homeless population? The shelters are FULL.
Detroit has no where near the problem with the homeless that cities like San Francisco or LA have. What the people here want is to go downtown and have the same experience that they have in Novi - no homeless, free parking, etc. These people have obviously never lived in a major US city or they would not have the attitudes that they have. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4229
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
quote:What the people here want is to go downtown and have the same experience that they have in Novi - no homeless
Exactly. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5242
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:30 pm: | |
Oh I see PG.....
You see that is called 'entitlement/priviledged mentality'...
FYI |