Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » SmartCar manfacturing in Detroit? « Previous Next »
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Hybridy
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Username: Hybridy

Post Number: 179
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't Penske have something to do with SmartCar locating somewhere in the states for manfacturing??
Would they ever come to Detroit?
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 262
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes and no, believe it or not the original inventor of the SmartCar is the founder of SWATCH.

yeah, the trendy watch company.

He teamed up with the Damelier folks over a decade ago to build his car. The only Smart work being done in metro Detriot is engineering tweaks to a 3 cylinder diesel engine with Robert Bosch ... also some paint work was done with BASF
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1642
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SMARTS are built in Europe I believe.

Penske's AutoNation (I believe that is his company) is responsible for the sales.

BTW, I'm predicting right now: car is hot for maybe up to a year, then everyone has one that wants one, and they take a huge dump. Final assessment: SMART car sales are terrible.

As long as they aren't expecting too much, that is okay.
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As much as its needed, this type of car will never thrive in a US market.

I remember while I was in Rome a couple of years ago how great these cars were. They're so small that you can fit them on sidewalks. At night the sidewalks would be filled with SMART cars. You'd never think they'd fit, but they certainly did, and it was amusing to see.

I used to drive a BMW hatchback that was all the rage in Europe, but stopped production in 1998. The hatchback/small car has never done well in this country, whether it's a econo compact or luxury compact. It's a shame.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 265
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The smart car is a niche market car. Period. Complaining that the "compact will never take off" is the kind of thinking that got the Big Three into the mess they're in.

"If it ain't huge, I don't want it.'

Take the Pontiac Fiero, a cool car looking car that they marketed as a sports car when in fact it was a under powered commuter car. But the marketing folks pushed the sports car angle and sales EXPLODED. 200 300 400 thousand units. Couldn't build them fast enough.

In fact they built a brand-new factory inside an old factory up on Baldwin Rd in Pontiac. Not only did they build this new factory they instituded a team approuch to building a car. A complete change from the old assembly-line paradigm of motion studies and repetative tasks. The Fiero Team Approuch was to have groups of eight people build a car from the ground up with pre-assembled parts.

The idea was to build a competive spirit within each team and to have each team be responsible for its output.

But sales started falling... the public had figured out they could never be James Bond with a 85 hp engine.

Sales leveled at about 50 thousand units and then GM killed it because it was a dismal failure. Too expensive to make - or - they didn't make enough profit on each unit. When car folks want to make a negative remark about a vehicle they say, "the next Fiero" meaning "all flash no cash".

Meanwhile the Mazda Miata showed up in 1989 and was essentially the same car. A underpowered toy that is fun to look at. It's cute. It's a hit. They've improved it but it is a car built for a niche. The damn thing is a success. There are car clubs and fan mags and a whole cult of miata freaks like those for the Ford Mustang. Car guys say, "It could be the next Miata" meaning a car with a loyal solid core set of buyers.

In the U.S. sales of the MIata peaked in 1991 at 35 thousand units, hit a low in 2004 at 9 thousand units but has rebounded and leveled off at 16 - 18 thousand

The peak of Miata sales was 15 thousand less than where the Fiero leveled off at!

Fiero a failure at 50 K, Miata a hit with a leveled off sales volume of 17K a year.

Go figure.

The Smart Car will explode in popularity when it get here as a second or third commuter car, college students, retirees, secretaries, service workers. The original beetle demographic.

The Smart Car is never going to be a Big Three success model until the Big Three figures out that making a huge profit on each vehicle is what is killing them.

http://www.miata.net/faq/produ ction/MazdaMX-5_AnnualSalesGlo bal_CY1989-2006.pdf
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree. I bought my BMW 318ti hatchback on ebay, drove it for 4 years, and sold it for what I bought it for. The car has such a cult following.

I hope the SMART Car picks up, as long as its pricing is realistic. You have to shell over $20K for a mini-cooper or beetle.
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Bigjeff
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Username: Bigjeff

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Penske has the rights to the franchises in the US. His company is called Penske Automotive Group. Before July 1st it was known as United Auto Group.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 674
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With oil barking at the door of 100 bucks a barrel - and the soon-coming-5-bucks-a-gallon at the pump, everyone will consider downsizing their vehicles a notch.

It's already happening.

SMART will get their share.
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 93
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another issue that helped kill the Fiero was the insurance industry. Fiero body panels use adhesive and shims everywhere, making them a bitch to do collision repair on. Most body shops hated to work on them and would fight the insurance appraisers for extra repair time.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2931
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Smart Car will explode in popularity when it get here as a second or third commuter car, college students, retirees, secretaries, service workers. The original beetle demographic."

That demographic is already being served by the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris hatchback. $13K-$16K and 35 mpg, along with decent cargo room.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 288
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

fury13, don't forget the entire Scion line-up, the Mini-Cooper, the new Beetle, and a host of others. Each one appeals to separate audience.

We have over 50 different 4-door sedans/wagons an equal number pick ups and more SUVs than one can count.

There is always room for a new stylish entry in every category. IMO the issue for SMART will be servicing the vehicle, if it's too exotic the average Joes and Josephines will shy away from the SMART.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2937
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they could somehow deliver around 50 mpg with the Smart car, I agree it would have a huge market. But with US emissions controls, it won't offer much more than 40. Still, if they keep the price low enough...
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 290
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My neighbor is an engineer with BOSCH, he's been working on a three cylinder diesel engine that gets about 60 MPG. He brought one home last year and we went for a spin.

The neighbor said he was got almost 70 mpg on a weekend trip to the Thumb and back. The inside is surprisingly roomy. I'm almost 6 foot and couldn't touch the firewall with my toes and shoulder width is quite commodius.

I was pretty impressed with the car. Now, while I didn't drive it, the pick-up was remarkable for a 3 cylinder and certainly compared well to the daughter's honda civic.

True the storage behind the seats is pretty tiny, but I'd guess you could carry 2 golf bags or 5 bags of groceries.

I really like the convertable roof and driving around with the top down in that thing was a blast.

The SMART is a simple commuter car, I don't see carpenters or plumbers running around in a SMART, but folks who commute may find it attractive.
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 369
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you drive over to Windsor some time you will see SMART cars on the road. They have been for sale for over two years now and sales have been fairly good. Sales in the larger centers like Montreal and Toronto and Vancouver have been good. As mentioned its a good commuter vehicle, some people even use them on the highways like the 401 and it does fit in some very tight urban parking spaces. The biggest obstacle is the average North Americans resistance to driving such a small vehicle. ( safety concern, room etc).
In the larger urban centers this vehicle really does makes sense for many people who do not need to haul around many people and live in densely populated areas.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2947
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that the Smart Car has a built-in roll cage and crumple zone in the front, which makes it fairly safe in most collisions.

Gnome, if they could put that 3-cylinder diesel Smart into production and bring it here, they'd have a hit, for sure. 60 mpg and easy to park? That's a great commuter car.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 291
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, I know they were having trouble with getting the diesel past the EPA, but the neighbor was pretty closed mouthed about things and I didn't want to push him on details.

DetroitBill is correct with the fact that the SMART car is all over in Toronto. The SMART is also a grey market import through ZAP in SanFransico ... if you want to try one, there is a Budget Rental place in Evanston, Illinois that rents them for about 50 buck a day.
There are some SMART crash videos on youtube and while it looks ok, but it's not like a Volvo 240. To drive the SMART would be a risk on the local Indy 500 = the Lodge. The issue is, and will be, economy vs safety.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 201
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think you will see a bunch of SMART cars in metro Detroit, but NY, chicago, San Fran, San diego, LA, Florida Retiree communities, These will be the markets for SMART.
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Gingellgirl
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Username: Gingellgirl

Post Number: 73
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took a smartfortwo for a test drive. Surprisingly roomy, responsive (hell, it only weighs 1600 pounds) with some decent pick up. I'm thinking about it as a first car for my daughter. Cheap, safe, easy to park and best of all, only one friend can fit in the car with her.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 292
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GG, where did you test drive one? I didn't know they had them in showrooms yet. Gingellgirl, for me it was a bit strange getting into the SmartCar becuase it seemed like it expanded once you got inside.
Almost the exact opposite of getting into a Hummer...huge monster and inside you feel like you're in an upolsterd crawlspace.

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