Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » The People Mover looks like the funny pages « Previous Next »
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 290
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does the People Mover have cartoonish ads all over it? I liked it better back when it was just normal.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 217
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if they can't get riders, they might as well get advertisers.
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Greatlakes
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Username: Greatlakes

Post Number: 49
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These "metallic" ads actually made them look rather slick.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 533
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mass transit at it's best :-)
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That_gurl_kat
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Username: That_gurl_kat

Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They make a nice little chunk of change on that ad space. Moving billboards in downtown Detroit.
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Peachlaser
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Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 134
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about? Putting some noses on these blunt beasts that represent new car models from Detroit? What if for $50K a month, you could put the hood and front end of your new model on the People Mover? It's a bit brash, but it's Detroit.

Personally, I prefer my trains devoid of advertising. But, if you are going to allow advertising, then make it fun, make a statement and show off your new products.

Can you imagine, one week a Chevy, the next week a Ford? It can become a whole new Detroit experience... whom can make the People Mover look the best? Think of all the marketing research money that could be saved.

I can just see the this site lighting up...'did you see what I saw today?' 'Well, I liked it, but...' Or... 'Awesome!'

Turn the People Mover into a revolving display of Detroit's new designs and find out what people think. It sounds a bit too much like 21st century stuff until you realize that it is. Paris, Milan and New York have their runways for style, so does Detroit have a runway for displaying Detroit's design and style. And you thought that train going in circles didn't have any purpose?

As always, thinking outside the box and looking for rain.

peach
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 527
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 5:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

funny... i vote for the new escalade truck. By the way, nothign wrong with the people mover. Its the same as the chicago loop.....right?...... we just havent connected any other trains to it......yet...we are only 15-20 years behind.....
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Texorama
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Username: Texorama

Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or a hundred years behind.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2008
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha, I haven't heard "funny pages" in a long time.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 5083
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of worrying about moving billboards throughout downtown, they need to worry about actually moving people on the people mover. Damn thing is empty 95% of the time.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 292
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of worrying about moving billboards throughout downtown, they need to worry about actually moving people on the people mover. Damn thing is empty 95% of the time.

Complete the system, bring it up John R, into New Center, and back down Second.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4479
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick! Shame on you! Don't let DDC see your post.

In fact, the PM was built so that they (whoever they are) would come. And they do--about five percent of the time, somebody rides.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2011
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of worrying about moving billboards throughout downtown, they need to worry about actually moving people on the people mover. Damn thing is empty 95% of the time.

Probably because it doesn't actually connect anyone from their home to their destination. The only two residential neighborhoods that it serves are Riverfront Towers and the Millender Center. It's the train from nowhere going to nowhere.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 373
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Iheartthed. Building the people mover the way they built it is like driving around inside fenced house.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 674
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

people mover ridership is continually rising since the renovation at GM was complete
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5582
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't say it's the train from nowhere to nowhere. It's great for finding cheap parking spots downtown, and then taking the PM to your venue.

It's nice to pay only $5 at the Michigan Building parking structure (or free on street parking where/when available), and then taking the PM to the ballparks or Cobo or whereever.

It's the schmucks who aren't savvy enough to use the PM to save money, that fork out that extra $15 or so for parking.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 421
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It's nice to pay only $5 at the Michigan Building parking structure



So, do you get a percentage every time you mention the Michigan Building on this forum or what?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2012
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't say it's the train from nowhere to nowhere. It's great for finding cheap parking spots downtown, and then taking the PM to your venue.

The monorail at Disney World takes you from the parking lot to the park entrance. Was the DPM built to mimic an amusement park train? If so, then job well done, because it serves as not much more than a novelty in current state. If it was built to be a part of a functioning transit system then it has failed horribly.
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Greatlakes
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Username: Greatlakes

Post Number: 52
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If it was built to be a part of a functioning transit system then it has failed horribly.



Um, I think it does its part pretty well actually. It's the other unbuilt or disconnected parts of that transit system that have caused the entire system to fail horribly.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5586
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright Dds, you caught me... I get thousands of free unused 1970's Michigan Palace rock concert tickets... :-)
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 195
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right on Gsgeorge, Take the DPM to New Center. That way it will connect downtown and mini-downtown.

I agree though, it's the other transportation that has failed. We have our loop, now where are the lines going off of it toward the burbs.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 294
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The thing is the People Mover was never really built for long-distance travel out to the burbs or even to places like Woodward & 8mile, Grand River & 8 mile, etc. All the radial roads need faster at-grade Light Rail lines, or at least BRT lines. The People Mover would be a great New Center-Downtown connector loop.

For example, say you needed to get to Wayne State from Royal Oak. You could take the Light Rail Woodward Line from Royal Oak to, say Woodward & Grand Boulevard where there is a People Mover connector. Then take the PM to Wayne's campus. If you wanted to go all the way downtown from Royal Oak, you could do that too--just take the Light Rail all the way to Campus Martius. If you wanted to make the short jump to the Joe, you could hop the PM downtown at the transfer station.

Likewise with Michigan Ave. Let's say you wanted to go from Dearborn to Wayne State. Hope the Light Rail down Michigan Ave to the People Mover connector downtown, and then take the PM up Second to Wayne State.

All just a pipe dream, but it would work wonderfully if it was a reality.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 979
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 4:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm all for them. The ad-less DPM cars looked outdated and bland. It's not like the ads on the DPM cars are covering up a whale mural or anything (grumble). Anything that keeps them moving in non-hockey or baseball or auto show season is all right with me!
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 196
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats why I was always hoping for a Brodrick redevelopment, so the building wouldn't need to cover up the whale to keep from falling down.

BTW, dont mean to thread jack, but once when I was in CHicago I saw the same whale. Was ours painted first or what>
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2017
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um, I think it does its part pretty well actually. It's the other unbuilt or disconnected parts of that transit system that have caused the entire system to fail horribly.

Okay, that's fair. But it could be argued that a true functioning, city wide light rail system would have probably made the DPM obsolete. A two car DPM train carries what, 200 people? By comparison, a typical NYC subway train carries 2,000 people. It seems like the DPM line would easily be overloaded during peak hours if Detroit was running a light rail system to feed into it.

Does anyone have a copy of how the previously planned light rail lines were supposed to feed into the DPM?
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 297
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, dont mean to thread jack, but once when I was in CHicago I saw the same whale. Was ours painted first or what?

he's an artist out of Southern California. if you go down there the whales are on a ton of buildings. Not sure when ours was painted but I know it is one of his largest murals.


BY THE WAY, just to prove that the PM can be an effective system, Vancouver's Sky Train, which has 30 miles of track, uses the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY as the PM. It's nearly identical, fully automated. trains are three cars instead of two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V ancouver_SkyTrain


Does anyone have a copy of how the previously planned light rail lines were supposed to feed into the DPM?

Yes please, I've been searching for this too.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 886
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing was planned in detail so far as I've ever been able to tell. Some kind of rail-based service was supposed to extend from the Grand Circus Park PM station to somewhere in Oakland County.

Here's what I have heard, but maybe some of you were around and can correct this and fill in gaps. Mayor Young and the Oakland County Executive, then as now LBP, could not agree on one detail. Part of the rail line was to be below grade, and part at grade. The Mayor wanted as much of it below grade as possible, but as that is very expensive compared to surface rail, it meant the line could not extend as far into Oakland County (costs being a fixed constraint). The County Executive wanted it to go as far into the OC as possible, which meant it would be mostly surface rail.

So of course nothing ever happened, except the downtown loop portion of the system.
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The_ed
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Username: The_ed

Post Number: 411
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought that the PM was to go from Fairlane to Downtown Detroit and to Oakland Mall?
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Sumotect
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Username: Sumotect

Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was one of the Architects who worked on the Woodward Corridor LRT study back in the mid eighties. It was to have 17 stations. It was to be subsurface to somewhere around the new center. Then go elevated to seven mile, and then surface from eight mile to the Pontiac Silverdome. All the stations within the city were designed to schematic level before the project tanked.

The only place the DPM and the LRT would connect would have been at the underground-proposed grand circus station and the elevated DPM station at the David Whitney building. The connection would have been by stairway, and elevator. Maybe escalator too, but I forget.

The only station not to be designed was the one at the new center (Woodward and the Boulevard), no one knew if it was to be sub surface, or elevated. Either one would have had tremendous urban design consequences. To go sub surface would have required a very deep construction to clear the low elevation at I-94 and Woodward. To go elevated would have required that the two mile long portal (the massive slot where the system comes out of the ground) to occur in the middle of the cultural center.

The rumor at the time was that GM, who essentially controlled everything around the New Center at the time, could not decide as to what they wanted to do, or whether they wanted the system at all.

What I heard as to why the project tanked was that the City would not sign the contract presented to them by the Bechtel Corporation. This was, I think wise, since the Bechtel corporation contract had clauses regarding non-negotiable extras. It would have given them a license to steal. The City had to kick in a share on the cost of the system, which was estimated at a lowballed one billion.

Unfortunately, Bechtel was also the organization with the contacts in Washington. It would have been easy for them to secure the federal money.

There were also some small time representatives in Oakland County bad mouthing the project. Had Bechtel gotten their hooks into the city, they would have shut those guys up.

If we ever get it together to have an LRT, I see a totally surface system with dedicated lanes within the Woodward right of way. Functioning almost like a trolley downtown. I would like to see a better-designed vehicle and an innovative way to eliminate that god awful looking pantograph and catenaries. Maybe some kind of secured third rail.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3677
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If we ever get it together to have an LRT, I see a totally surface system with dedicated lanes within the Woodward right of way. Functioning almost like a trolley downtown. I would like to see a better-designed vehicle and an innovative way to eliminate that god awful looking pantograph and catenaries. Maybe some kind of secured third rail.



The streetcars in DC used to operate with a continuous slot in the roadway, and collected power similar to a third rail system. Where the streetcars crossed into Maryland, they had to stop and attach the pantograph for overhead power collection.
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 147
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kslice>> Whaling Wall number 76. Built just after Chicago (ww 73)

http://www.wylandfoundation.or g/whalingWalls/whalingWalls_in dex.cfm

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