Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » Starbucks going after local coffee shop.... « Previous Next »
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 5092
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did anyone hear about the Starbucks issue with a small coffee shop in Mt. Clemens? Starbucks is claiming that Conga Coffee & Tea’s logo is too similar to that of Starbucks. What do you think of this? Is this a case of corporate greed or does Starbucks have a legit concern?

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/14435160/detail.html

http://www.myspace.com/congaco ffee
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Bvos
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Post Number: 2241
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like strong arm tactics from the evil coffee empire. As if this is going to affect Starbucks business.

This is the sort of stuff that gets the highly qualified pro-bono attorneys riled up and on the side of the little guy. Hopefully someone will come to Conga's rescue before someone makes the horrible mistake of accidentally confusing the elephant for that woman on the Starbucks logo and end up getting a great cup of coffee by going to Conga instead of the brown stuff they're pumping out at $tarbuck$ these days.
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Shark
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Post Number: 293
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Starbucks has a right to go after them. When it comes to coffee shops, everyone equates a circular green logo with Starbucks.
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Lefty2
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Post Number: 541
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a little bullying, probably, it is a pretty close copy of the logo green circle with logo, i would take it to a jury trial if a lawyer went pro bono based on free publicity.

Patrick, what do you think?
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Johnnny5
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Post Number: 631
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree with Starbucks on this one. There is no way the owners of Conga did not notice the striking similarities between their logo and the Starbucks logo. If Conga's logo was recently created it's reasonable to assume this was done intentionally
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Jerome81
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Post Number: 1643
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm....questionable. Though the green circle with the stuff in the middle might be close enough to give Starbucks a legit lawsuit. Maybe not a blatent ripoff, but close.

I could go either way. In a quick, 1 sec glance at Conga, can't say I immediately think of Starbucks.

I don't know where this ever came from, but I don't understand people's hatred for the "big evil corporations". These companies are the way they are because they are the best at what they do. Why is that bad? It is the American way to start a business and try to grow it into the biggest, best place you can possibly make it. Just cause they're big doesn't mean they have bottomless pockets, or deserve some sort of retribution (see Big 3 and Big Oil). Anyway, if Starbucks has a legit complaint, they have every right to go after these people. I don't look down upon them for it. If it were my business, I'd probably consider the same.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1624
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just another case of corporate whores kicking the little guy. I think the fact that Starbuck assumes that people will get confused by the logo is insulting to the intelligence of their average customer.
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Rooms222
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Post Number: 66
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't really like it, but there have been cases about "trade dress" that say the same green and shape is too close......Look at the Qualitex Case on this page......Interestingly "functional" colors don't count---e.g. orange for peanut butter, brown for chocolate, blue for the sea.....

http://www.yarbroughlaw.com/Pa tent%20Articles/Tradedress2.ht m
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Meaghansdad
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Post Number: 149
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As an aside, the stuff Starbucks out is absolutely horrible!.UGH...
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 889
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Meaghansdad, Starbucks is God-awful. I prefer the coffee at pick-your-local-diner, and I enjoy really good coffee. When I had more free time, and money, I would go out to a roasting house in Ann Arbor (from way out east-side) because they had in my opinion the best coffee in those days (early 90s).

By the way, look at this from another angle. You can't buy the kind of publicity Conga is getting from this. Ask Larry Bell how much it hurt his business to have Molson sue him years ago over the name of one of his beers.
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Wash_man
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Post Number: 489
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Close call, but I think Starbucks has a point. What if someone used the Ford blue oval with another name in it?






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Rjk
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Post Number: 921
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they didn't draw the line you'd see a lot more coffee shops trying to see how far they could push Starbucks before they'd take action against them. They're a little guy, but if SB lets this slide there will be a lot more little guys doing the same thing.
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Patrick
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Post Number: 5093
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I honestly do not know what to think about it. At first, it does look similar to Starbucks, but the Elephant gives it away well as the font. What if they changed the color to maybe blue or yellow?
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 890
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Putting your name in a circle around a picture is one of the oldest logo styles out there, and green is a fairly standard color. In fact, the highway department uses signs with white letters on a green background all over the place; Starbucks should sue them.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 4497
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was mentioned on WJR today that Starbucks plans to double their stores in SE Michigan.
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Perfectgentleman
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Post Number: 4501
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Starbucks sucks, their coffee always tastes burnt. The logos aren't that close, the case should be dropped.
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Dialh4hipster
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Post Number: 2221
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mtclemensyes.com
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Eriedearie
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Username: Eriedearie

Post Number: 14
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I worked in patent and trademark law offices for over 27 years. I've seen plenty of cases such as this. SB will have their attorney file a trademark opposition, unless Conga ceases using the mark to sell their beverages. The U.S. Trademark Trial and Appeal Board will then come into play. The whole thing will drag on for years...It will come down to the circle, the same shade of green, etc. Conga will put up plenty of money in attorney fees to defend their right to use the mark. Because in my experience I've never seen an Intellectual Property attorney do pro bono - that won't happen, no way, no how. SB will prevail. I say the marks are too similar and SB will argue that consumers will be confused and think they are getting SB coffee. Conga would get off cheap if they complied and immediately stopped using the mark.
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Flyingj
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 4:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jimmy Buffet has a lawyer in Miami whose sole job is going after businesses named after Margaritaville & Cheeseburger In Paradise knock-off's
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The_ed
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Post Number: 427
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the logos are only similar in the color of the circles, but Starbucks will prevail.
I only go to Starbucks if I need a strong coffee to help keep me awake in the morning; like this morning.
Ihavealargeredeyewithasquirtof caramel.Thatkeepsmegoingallmor ningandIcangetmyworkdoneearly!
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1261
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Move this thread out of the dyes section please :-D

We have bigger issues to worry about
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2026
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you can not copyright a color, nor a generic geometric shape. it will be a simple matter of a corporation smashing a small business with its sheer power. as if this little place takes away so much from Starbucks. pblah.

Ford HAS sued over "ford blue" being used. Can not copyright a color, they lost.

The logos are similar enough though - bad idea on Congos part. I cant believe their designer wasnt aware of that similarity.

"We have bigger issues to worry about"

Hahahaha !
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56packman
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Post Number: 1861
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a bar on the north side of Ford road west of Southfield. About 30 years ago they had a sign out front that used the blue oval with the same flowing script that read "Food". It didn't take long, the legal department of Ford hit them with a cease and desist and the sign went away.

as for Starbucks plan to double the number of stores, here's a bit of a sanity check-in form Lewis Black:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Z9iMgSNrwv4
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 491
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is kind of funny....
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Giv eMeABreak/story?id=1390867
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1186
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott wrote, "the highway department uses signs with white letters on a green background all over the place; Starbucks should sue them."

The point is that Conga is running a coffee shop. The highway department isn't running a coffee shop.It's not a threat to Starbucks.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 539
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Starbucks has copyright on a green circle? One more reason to stay out of these joints. :-)
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Track75
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Post Number: 2658
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few observations:

1. The Congo logo is strikingly similar to the Starbucks logo. Honest mistake? Not a chance.

2. Legally, a company has to protect their trademark from infringement or they risk losing their registration of that trademark. "Looking the other way" would be irresponsible on Starbucks' part. Their trademark is a huge asset to their business.

3. The "big company = bad, small company = good" line of reasoning is naive.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 279
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few observations:

1. Free advertising is great.

2. Before channel 4's report I'd never heard of Conga Coffee

3. I can't wait to order a latte at Conga Coffee.

(Message edited by gnome on October 30, 2007)
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1528
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mauser that's not true. Although you do see variations, you'd expect that if a company used the exact "swish" from nike, that they'd get sued.

The Nike Swish is one of the most recognizable and successful branding schemes in all history...and it's a very simple geometric shape.
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Fury13
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Post Number: 2842
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Free advertising is great.

2. Before channel 4's report I'd never heard of Congo Coffee

3. I can't wait to order a latte at Congo Coffee.


Free advertising, you say? Well, it didn't work with you.

It's Conga, not Congo.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 540
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Track, companies that worry about such BS usually don't last long. Just a hunch, but I'll bet Congo has better coffee(easy to do), and they are taking sales. Thats what has Starbucks flamed.

Artistic infringement issues run rampant in a lot of industries. The really good advanced secure companies don't care. Their products are better, by the time the competition catches up, they are releasing new design. Some companies need this kind of nudge to push forward.

In business, copyrights are a joke, they are cheap to get, but ridiculously expensive and difficult to defend. Any company under a 7 figure gross and much of it liquid, shouldn't even bother. One could easily put themselves under defending an idiotic logo. Starbucks should spend the 79 dollars and get a new one and forget about it. Similar but distinguishable.

This is just insecurity at the corporate level.
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Fury13
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Post Number: 2843
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All Conga has to do is modify the color to a aqua or turquoise, and remove the white circle borders on the logo. Voila!

By the way, Conga has really good coffee.
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Track75
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Track, companies that worry about such BS usually don't last long. Just a hunch, but I'll bet Congo has better coffee(easy to do), and they are taking sales. Thats what has Starbucks flamed.

Conga's coffee may or may not be better, but this is clearly about trademark infringement, not the "threat" Starbucks feels from Conga.

quote:

Artistic infringement issues run rampant in a lot of industries. The really good advanced secure companies don't care. Their products are better, by the time the competition catches up, they are releasing new design. Some companies need this kind of nudge to push forward.

All large companies care. They understand the legal necessity of protecting a trademark from infringement, without regard to the insignificance of the infringer. If Starbucks lets enough little coffee houses parrot their logo then eventually some court will rule that Starbucks hasn't adequately protected their trademark and their registration of that trademark will cease.

quote:

In business, copyrights are a joke, they are cheap to get, but ridiculously expensive and difficult to defend. Any company under a 7 figure gross and much of it liquid, shouldn't even bother. One could easily put themselves under defending an idiotic logo. Starbucks should spend the 79 dollars and get a new one and forget about it. Similar but distinguishable.

Apparently you've never heard of Starbucks before. They have 15,000 locations worldwide and do $8,000,000,000 in yearly revenue. Their logo is an asset worth protecting.
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Doctors
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Post Number: 729
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When did people forget how to read? The sign clearly says Conga Coffee & Tea, not Starbucks!

And no, they do not "look similar" you can spot the difference a mile away.
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Wash_man
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Post Number: 492
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did some Googling and found another case, but I haven't found what the outcome was yet.



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Sstashmoo
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Post Number: 541
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Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "Apparently you've never heard of Starbucks before. They have 15,000 locations worldwide and do $8,000,000,000 in yearly revenue. Their logo is an asset worth protecting."

Yes, I've heard of Starbucks and I realize how many people will drink crap if they are convinced it's the cool thing to do. I was winding on about copyright and smaller companies.
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Soomka1
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Username: Soomka1

Post Number: 66
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conga might need to move south of the border. Here is my favorite Starbucks rip off. Santana's Coffee Shop in Rocky Point, Mexico.



They have been open for quite a while. Last time I was there I got a shirt with a huge Santana's logo.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 600
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, this is like Viacom and YouTube. I hate Conglomerates.
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Darwinism
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This Mt. Clemens coffee shop has just changed ownership within the past year or so. I had explored the idea of buying the business sometime last year, and the previous logo didn't look like Starbucks'.

As stated by many above, there are clear similarities in terms of the green background, the 2 inner white rings and black/white center image. The odds are against Conga, in favor of Starbucks, if the lawsuit proceeds. The Conga owner should comply and move on.
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Digitalvision
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't surprise me.. the cold hard fact is that if you do not vigorously defend your trademarks, brands, etc. you will lose them under American law. The law forces you, as a business, to not allow anything close or else you may lose all exclusive rights.

And yes - that logo is way too close to Starbucks, especially for a coffee shop. There isn't even the protection of looking somewhat alike but being in a different line of business - in short, Track75 has nailed it right on the head.

I've dealt with plenty a business owner who believe that copying the competition is the way to go, and we won't do work for those people. It's a legal sticky wicket, not to mention bad taste.

They should change it now, and not fight it. I ain't a lawyer, but from my previous experience, they will lose.
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Jerrytimes
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Post Number: 67
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw a Conga Coffee sign for the first time a little over a year ago and the first thing that I thought was the it looked like a Starbucks rip-off. Conga should just change the color.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

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Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Starbucks vs. Conga Coffee & Tea case is pure nonsense.

Let's start with the purely legal aspects of it. Conga Coffee & Tea has been using that logo as a registered trademark for 11 years, according to an article in the Freep. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2007711090415

Does the concept of a statue of limitations not apply to intellectual property cases? I'm fairly confident that any rights Starbucks may have had to sue in this matter expired years ago.

On the substantive issues, while both logos use a green bulls eye, that shouldn't be enough to establish trademark infringement. Both Ford and Toyota use ovals in their logos. That doesn't establish trademark infringement.

Conga Coffee & Tea uses a different shade of green and has a 4 color design as opposed to Starbucks' 3 color design.

Starbucks uses 2 stars in their logo; Conga Coffee & Tea doesn't.

Starbucks uses a mermaid in its logo; Conga Coffee & Tea uses an elephant.

The list of differences go on and on. There are far more differences between the 2 logos than there are similarities.

All of this, of course, is on top of the fact that Conga Coffee & Tea has been using this logo for 11 years.

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