 
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10683
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 7:55 pm: |    |
quote:I donate as much time and money to the city as most of the residents there do, in other words, not much.
The comparison is not between 'most of the residents' and you. The comparison is you and I. Again you talk a big game and do nothing.
The offer still stands and i will happily send you the name of some good organizations. Of course it is easier to condemn others than to actually get off your rear and do something.
quote:I do have my causes though.
You have made those abundantly clear - your wallet, your ability to reduce taxes you pay, etc.
I'll keep an eye out for you during Tigers season saying how much you do for the city by paying $50 for a Tigers ticket. Bravo PG, bravo. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4815
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 8:04 pm: | |
What ails Detroit is not a lack of charity. It is a lack of private investment, the very kinds of investments Ilitch makes. This will not happen until public safety and city services improve. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 976
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 8:39 pm: | |
So, because Ilitch invest in the city, he should be viewed a savior who's above reproach? Now I could care less how money gives charity because its his money. But you'd have to be completely blind to not he gets away with things detrimental to city, that deter further investment in city. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4818
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
So now he is deterring further investment in the city. So he enjoys harming the very city he is investing in? What nonsense. |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 5111
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 9:23 pm: | |
Ok, so how much does he need to donate to charity? What is the exact amount he needs to donate in order to make YOU happy? |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 977
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 9:32 pm: | |
I never said he enjoys it. Just look at his vacant property holdings, his upkeep of these properties has been abysmal at best. Buildings simply left to rot, with no attempt whatsoever to maintain them. Are these the things that encourage investment? No, yet you talk about him being "loyal" to city.
A person loyal to the city doesn't own a vacant building for 10 years and then ask them to subsidize its demolition. By comparison you can bet when the GT Building was demo'ed to expand the Dime Bldg's parking garage the city didn't cut them a check. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 688
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 9:34 pm: | |
well, Jt1 you sure talk a big game, lets see what you do/have done.
Post what you've contributed to the city. Here and now |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10684
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
You are free to e-mail: jt1_detroit@yahoo.com |
Downtownguy
Member
Username: Downtownguy
Post Number: 90
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 10:52 pm: | |
The fact of the matter, as anyone in the non-profit community will tell you, is that Mike Ilitch's charity in his hometown is puny compared to other wealthy citizens. Note, too, that the $4.4 million dollar figure includes sponsorships--which may actually be marketing dollars, and "in-kind" donations--mostly pizza, which costs him cents on the dollar. It's truly a shame that this man, who could benefit this community greatly by sharing a small amount of his wealth, chooses not to. Of course, that's his choice, just as we can all choose what to believe of his true contribution to this city. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 595
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 10:59 pm: | |
What someone does with their money is their problem.
Dictating how much someone should contribute to charity is communistic. You can choose to support or not support these establishments.
The problem in Detroit is that there aren't enough competitors to equal Illitch's investments.
The solution is that the complainers need to form an LLC and buy up properties to compete with the big guys. Then they will have an invested interest in raising the bar. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 691
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 11:00 pm: | |
he also employs thousands of detroiters. Without him, downtown would be even deader than it is. more detroiters would be sucking unemployment dollars, and there would be even more blighted buildings downtown. Less tax revenue for the city would result in even more abysmal services. Thank god for Mike Ilitch |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 293
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
Let me tell you a true story of Mike Ilitch and the Ilitch Childrens Charity.
A few years ago, a friend of mine at work came home to find her husband swinging from the rafters by the neck in their garage. Fortunately their 3 young children didn't find their father first.
She had plenty of pictures of her children in their hockey uniforms. A boy sandwiched in age between 2 girls, but all of them played on hockey teams.
I called up Ilitch Children's Charities and asked if they could do something for the kids. Maybe an autographed souvenir for each of the three kids.
I gave them the contact info. for the department admin. asst. and left it at that. Later I learned that they were invited to the Ilitches' Suite to watch a game, got autographed jerseys, pucks, met the team, the whole nine yards.
Did they have to do that? No. Am I glad they did? Yes. Will I bad-mouth the Ilitch's? No.
Another encounter with the Ilitch's was when I took my parents to the Mother's Day game at Tiger Stadium in 1999. It was the first "Kid's (& Mom's) run the bases after the game" promotion. She was 70 and I was 38. We were told we were too old.
Age wasn't mentioned in the promotion. So I eventually found Denise Ilitch-Lites home phone number and complained. They sent me 3 tickets for the Father's Day game. Same promotion, no age restriction. The line to run the bases circled the stadium, so we blew it off.
We later took the Tiger Stadium tour for $5 when the Tigers were on the road in August. Got on the field, saw the visitors clubhouse, the press box, $500 urinal troughs. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2720
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 11:39 pm: | |
I won't get involved in this pissing match.Other then to say it really is pathetic that a thread about what Illitch has or has not done for Detroit gets upwards of forty posts.............and the one I started (incidentally) some time ago about the mayors confidant ms Beatty gets maybe half that.........
Any question at all about who(between those two Beatty/Illitch) is fucking the city up the ass?
I don't worship anyone Illitch included but he has invested in Detroit when he did not have to. Hell if you all are gonna bitch, do it about the city council.For the money they get they are shafting you all royally every day. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5649
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 12:19 am: | |
I guess it's all a matter of perspective...
Ironically we dis Ilitch because even though he spend hundreds of millions of his own money in Detroit, he has his way with the city government largesse. Not very good PR.
But then there's someone such as Bill Davidson, who also contributes millions to Detroit charities, but doesn't contribute a nickel to rebuilding Detroit... he gets off with a free pass, i.e. a lack of criticizm by this forum.
Ilitch has probably the worst PR team of any Michigan tycoon.
Also, one correction on this thread. Chuck Forbes purchased the Fox in 1984. He didn't have the money to restore it (he wouldn't get his windfall for selling land to the stadia until the late 1990's). He maintained the Fox in its' already deteriorated condition, until CAY sort of gave him an ultimatum to either restore it or sell it to Mike Ilitch... which is what he did in 1987.
The Ilitch's spent $12 million "refurbishing" the Fox. There was very little damaged plaster, since no pipes had burst in the theatre (heating and the roof were maintained in the building). Basically they cleaned the theatre surfaces, did some repainting and did a few minor restorations.
A chunk of that $12 million was for mechanical upgrades. 16 tons of grime and nicotine were removed from the Fox interior. The Fox reopened in November 1988. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3367
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 9:49 am: | |
How dare that guy redevelop a huge area of downtown, employ a ton of people, and continue to invest in a city that most other large corporations gave up on years ago. The nerve. How dare he tear down derelict buildings filled with crackheads that nobody had any realistic intention of restoring, and contribute to blight in what is supposed to be the heart of the city. The nerve of him. And then he ONLY gives millions a year in charity?? Throw him out of town. We must continue to send the message that large corporations and tycoons are not welcome in the city of Detroit. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3692
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 9:55 am: | |
I'd be curious to see the breakdown of Ilitch's charitable contributions versus the amount of public subsidy he has received. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4824
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 9:58 am: | |
What the hell do you care about public subsidy Dan? You are certainly for it when it involves your favorite subject... |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3368
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:01 am: | |
Is this counted?
http://mlb.mlb.com/det/communi ty/foundation.jsp
Was this included?
http://ilitchcharitiesforchild ren.org/
What about this?
http://redwings.nhl.com/team/a pp/?service=page&page=NHLPage& bcid=com_default |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2604
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:02 am: | |
This thread exemplifies the entitlement mentality of so many people on this board and in the city of Detroit...
Not only because of the "gimme, gimme, gimme, I'm entitled to more of your money" comments, but also because these people fail to appreciate anything Ilitch does for the city of Detroit...
They never stop to think of what the city would be like without his investment dollars, and you can bet if he ever decided to pull out and invest elsewhere, they scream foul and claim they are entitled to have him invest here. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3703
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:16 am: | |
quote:They never stop to think of what the city would be like without his investment dollars, and you can bet if he ever decided to pull out and invest elsewhere, they scream foul and claim they are entitled to have him invest here.
It's that attitude that permit Ilitch to remain, simultaneously, one of the city's biggest slumlords and welfare queens. He's got you guys by the balls (and the checkbook). |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 978
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:19 am: | |
Criticizing the man personal giving is going too far and there's no doubt that Ilitich's investment have improved the city. But I don't think it's entitlement mentality to expect a billionaire to keep up his property. The problem is there too many who think like you running this city, that so appreciative that you're to willing turn a blind eye these problems. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3704
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
"Ilitch's investment have improved the city."
So, since the Fox reopened nearly 20 years ago, exactly what kind of investments are we talking about here?
What Ilitch gives to charity is his business. Given that, as a billionaire, he's taken a lot of money from the public trough, though, I expect better. To continue giving him a free pass for something he accomplished 20 years ago is a bit naive, wouldn't you say? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
$4.4M is nothing, if that is an accurate figure. Heck, in the paper today UW-Madison B-school alumni gave the B-school $85M not to name the school after anyone for the next 20 years. How much did Alfred Taubman give to the U-M B-school? I'm sure it was a hell of a lot more than $4.4M. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3705
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:50 am: | |
quote:How much did Alfred Taubman give to the U-M B-school? I'm sure it was a hell of a lot more than $4.4M.
If I recall correctly, Taubman's (highly ironic) gift to U-M's School of Architecture and Urban Planning was $30 million. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2068
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 10:57 am: | |
^Yeah, my bad, I was thinking about Stephen Ross.
From the wiki:
quote:In 2004, Ross made the single largest contribution to the University of Michigan by donating $100 million to the school. The University renamed its business school, The Stephen M. Ross School of Business in his honor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_M._Ross
(Message edited by iheartthed on November 05, 2007) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5651
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:58 am: | |
A few years ago Mike & Marion Ilitch funded a hospice in Midtown in memory of Marion's late parents. Since I don't know what her maiden name is, I can't recall the name of the Hospice. But I think it might be south of Mack Ave., south of the DMC complex.
How does one measure a gift that keeps on giving?
The sad thing on this debate is that nearly everyone is right... the Ilitch have had their snouts in the public trough, and yet they have spent more of their own money on the city than any other family. They have been the city's worst slumlord, demo'ed some of their buildings, and yet they are now fixing up their remaining inventory of buildings.
Love them or hate them... the Freep says it best in describing them... "flawed brilliance". |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2610
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 12:05 pm: | |
"$4.4M is nothing, if that is an accurate figure. Heck, in the paper today UW-Madison B-school alumni gave the B-school $85M not to name the school after anyone for the next 20 years. How much did Alfred Taubman give to the U-M B-school? I'm sure it was a hell of a lot more than $4.4M."
Well, if it's so insignificant, I suppose you'd have no problem if he pulled the money right back out of the programs and charities it went to.
I mean, why should he give even that much if people are just going to bash him |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2072
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Well, if it's so insignificant, I suppose you'd have no problem if he pulled the money right back out of the programs and charities it went to.
Depends on where it went. I'm pretty sure he wasn't sponsoring the programs that I volunteered with when I was still living in Michigan. Is he sponsoring any of your programs? |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 692
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
Ilitch also gives thousands of tickets to charities each year for the baseball and hockey games. These are either used in fundraising auctions or to give to the less fortunate kids. I doubt those numbers are included in his charitable contributions, as they are on behalf of the respective teams, but they are his none the less and he sure as hell doesnt have to do it.
Again, Detroit would be FAR worse off if it werent for Mike and Marian |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4834
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:08 pm: | |
He should pull the Wings out of Detroit and show folks that there are other choices out there. Perhaps the ingrates will be more appreciative of his efforts. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3374
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:12 pm: | |
Now, now PG. That isn't fair to those of us who love the Wings and Tigers, and don't hate Ilitch. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4835
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:16 pm: | |
To be perfectly honest charity is not nearly as effective in the long run as private sector investment. I would take a billionaire who is creating 10,000 jobs in perpetuity and who greedily holds on to every dime he earns over a philanthropist who donates a few million here and there, that sadly, despite good intentions, oftentimes has no lasting effect.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on November 05, 2007) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:25 pm: | |
He should pull the Wings out of Detroit and show folks that there are other choices out there.
If Detroit has to continue to subsidize them in order to keep them, then I say let them go. Sports will not save that city. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4837
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:33 pm: | |
Sounds good, I am sure the city would be better off without any entertainment and/or sports venues period. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2074
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:51 pm: | |
Sounds good, I am sure the city would be better off without any entertainment and/or sports venues period.
Or maybe ones that the city doesn't have to fund? I hear land in West Hell is cheap, he won't need the tax cuts from the city to build there. MDOT will be more than happy to pave an 8 lane highway up to the front door, if recent history is any indication. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4838
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
Every city kicks in on sports venues, it would be nice to think that they wouldn't have to but that is not the reality. From what I read Ilitch paid a far greater share for Comerica than many owners around the country. |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 373
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
I think Illitch has done what he needs to. He has invested wisely, manipulated the city to get what he wants to, made alot of money , but at the same time made this city a much more attractive place to visit, funded successful sport and entertainment venues, employed thousands within its borders, and contributed a portion of those profits to charity ( what % who knows). I really can't find a ton of fault with him. He has covered most of his bases. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 226
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 2:27 pm: | |
Mike I and his wife were down at the Roostertail a couple years back when I was bartending. He got a drink from me and only tipped $2.00. What a jerk! I was expecting like a $100 or something.
{{{SARCASTIC COMMENT}}} - ok jrvass...... sheesh
If the city lost the great sports teams it has, I would probably leave. It is one thing that we as a city can actually be very proud of. We have had such an astonishing run at professional championships in all four of the main sports (women and men mind you) that no other city in the nation can compare with. Can any of you name one?
(Message edited by tkshreve on November 05, 2007) |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4839
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
You people want bread? Fuck a baker. Or better yet, start a business, work your ass for years, then you can start giving your money away and show us all how it's done. |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 716
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
"I would take a billionaire who is creating 10,000 jobs in perpetuity and who greedily holds on to every dime he earns over a philanthropist who donates a few million here and there, that sadly, despite good intentions, oftentimes has no lasting effect."
"You people want bread? Fuck a baker."
How Dickensian of you, Perf. (What! You want more gruel?) You no doubt want those greedy, selfish little 11-year-old orphans to get off their butts and gets jobs instead of mooching off your (non-existant) charitable dollars. Hey, 12-hour work days never killed anybody (Well, ah, actually they have, but they're too many of those orphans anyway. So what if some of them get bumped off).
Unfortunately, this "Golden Age" is what the neo-cons not only dream of, but are daily striving for.
Welcome to the new world of the Dubya era - the 1850's. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2078
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 3:19 pm: | |
You people want bread? Fuck a baker.
What a perfect gentlemen you are! |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 295
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 6:26 pm: | |
Tkshreve... how much was the drink? $10? you got 20%. You don't get to be a millionaire by tossing Franklin's at bartenders for a single drink. Get a clue.
And all this talk about the Ilitch's feeding at the public's tax money trough... are they holding a gun to the heads of the politicians you elect?
Do you tell your boss or your welfare case worker... "Oh no! I can't accept that much money from you. I don't deserve it!"
Give me a f!cking break! |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 339
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 6:29 pm: | |
^This forum desperately needs a formatting tag for sarcasm. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 229
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 6:37 pm: | |
Hehehe Bearinabox.
That is one of the biggest barriers on this forum. To many comedians and sarcastic posts. It's hard to know who is on what team. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 297
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 7:05 pm: | |
Tkshreve,
Not fair going back and editing your post. But if it was truly sarcasm, then I'll retract my comment to you.
The rest of my post still applies. |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 8:18 pm: | |
$4.4 Million a year may sound paltry to some of you ... but remember, he's been doing this for years. Let's say he continues for the next 15 years... that's $66 million!
The Ilitch's will always have criticism from people... They own the Motor City Casino for christ's sake, they're never going to be considered saints... |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2595
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 1:42 pm: | |
quote:$4.4 Million a year may sound paltry to some of you ... but remember, he's been doing this for years. Let's say he continues for the next 15 years... that's $66 million!
Yes, and if he keeps it for another 100 years, it'll make up for all of the subsidies he has received over the years from taxpayers. The stadiums. The Fox. The Madison-Lenox. They add up.
Here's a deal: you give me $1,000 dollars. I'll donate $20 to some charity and then you can run around telling people how generous I am for giving away $20. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 1:59 pm: | |
Drove by the old Lee Plaza again today. Since Ilitch gets his kicks tearing down old buildings, if he REALLY wanted to be charitable, he'd pay to raze the Lee. It is beyond saving and REALLY hurts New Center. Henry Ford, Fisher Bldg, GM Bldg are gorgeous, but the Lee... yikes. |
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