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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2617
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This thing is gonna be a big deal if it gets built...

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20071106/METRO /711060361

"The $800 million proposal could symbolize an economic reversal for Michigan with a project that is 10 times larger, more than twice as expensive and could create almost twice the number of jobs as the Pavilions of Troy redevelopment of Kmart's former headquarters."

"From an economic perspective, the project is unique not just in Michigan, but nationally. Most big developments are built on farm land at the edges of urban population. This one is surrounded by an already well-established and wealthy population, said James Walewski, an Ann Arbor-based retail location research consultant."

"The buildings and their linking utility tunnels are popular with teens and "urban explorers" who come to Detroit from throughout the world to climb inside the area's many vertical ruins."
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 3388
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can a bunch of service and retail jobs change the economic situation? People have to have money to shop at the strip mall. A bunch of retail jobs paying $8 an hour isn't going to help anything. It will certainly not start "economic reversal".
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2618
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they're just saying good things happen to a local economy when someone invests $800 million in it...it doesn't happen over night, but this will likely be a 3-4 year process to get this whole thing built...

The construction alone creates a ton of jobs...the site is supposed to have retail, doctors offices, residential, etc...all kinds of builders and contractors will be needed...

And the type of residential being built there is the type that people actually want to buy...the type that retains its value...

And the article is correct in saying that this site sits right smack in the middle of a lot of already established wealth...there's plenty of money there to be spent on retail over the next 15-20 years or longer...
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1888
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the financing in place?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 3391
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I certainly hope it is a good thing the for that area, I am just skeptical about temporary construction jobs and service and retail having any real impact. I'm sure most of what moves into that space will be chain stores that also have other locations within 5 miles.

I guess I'm really tangenting off onto my belief that a service and retail economy will not be enough to sustain an American middle class, now that the manufacturing of actual tangible products from raw materials is being done elsewhere.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2620
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I'm sure most of what moves into that space will be chain stores that also have other locations within 5 miles."

Probably, but many of those other chain stores aren't a part of a walkable, village type community surrounded by residential...

Just look at the gaudy monstrosity that Livonia and Northville built along Haggerty between 6 and 7 mile...I don't know what they were thinking with their College Park design (typical suburban office/retail/dining park)...

This is a much better concept than the those.
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Kpm
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Username: Kpm

Post Number: 71
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting (from the article):

Walewski said one of his clients, Crate & Barrel, is holding off on plans for a new western Wayne County store in another location because the company doesn't want to miss the chance to be in the Northville Township development.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 508
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't think there is enough office space out there already?
Another case of a builder gone wild.
I'll believe this development when I see it. I'd also like to know where the money is coming from. There is strip mall just down the street (toward Northville Rd.) that is half empty.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2083
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^For once, I'm in agreement with this guy.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2621
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^yet you'd be jumping for joy if someone were adding retail or office space in downtown Detroit (which, unlike Northville, has too few residents with too little money to support such a project)...go figure

Your obvious biases aside, this project is a different animal than a strip mall or typical suburban office park...walkable, livable communities are what we need around here...

This is the right kind of development for this region and I'm glad to see things finally moving in this direction
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2084
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^yet you'd be jumping for joy if someone were adding retail or office space in downtown Detroit (which, unlike Northville, has too few residents with too little money to support such a project)

I don't jump for joy over anything. Do I believe Detroit is an under served retail market? I don't just believe it, I know it. Is Northville an under served market? I highly doubt it. I highly doubt that Northville residents of comparable wealth to their Detroit counterparts, travel as far as their Detroit counterparts to do their essential shopping, such as grocery, clothing, etc.

But I don't expect you to understand any of what I just said. Nor do I expect you to understand this next statement: Southeast Michigan already has a large municipality built around walkable communities.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 233
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the concept better than the usual strip mall? Yes. But isn't it ironic that someone feels the need to build a walkable retail area within spitting distance of downtown Northville? Doesn't that say it's more of a marketing gimmick than anything else? Most likely, this is just going to suck retail and office users from other locations in places like Livonia or lead to a retail use going here versus another nearby location. But this isn't a growth generator.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2622
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Southeast Michigan already has a large municipality built around walkable communities."

And yet no one seems to want to live there...huh...

Strangely, downtown RO, downtown Birmingham and Downtown Plymouth don't have this same problem...go figure...
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2085
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But this isn't a growth generator.

And that's really the issue. If you want to build it then build it, but don't lie about it. This will not create jobs nor will it create growth for the region.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2624
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Novine:

This isn't quite the same idea as a historic downtown like downtown Northville...you can't create one of those overnight...

And given that walkable communities are the way to go, it makes no sense to build non-walkable communities simply because there are other ones in the area...
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2625
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And that's really the issue."

Is that really THE issue? Seems like a minor point to me.

Schostak is trying to market their property by casting it in the best light possible, so they'll say all kinds of good things about it. So what?

Do you really think that's the main reason people want this built? Do you thin that's the reason people will shop at/move into this project? Because someone told them it was a growth generator?

Seriously.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2626
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I don't jump for joy over anything."

I'm not really surprised to learn this.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2086
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you really think that's the main reason people want this built? Do you thin that's the reason people will shop at/move into this project? Because someone told them it was a growth generator?

They are selling it to two groups of people. First, they are selling it to the township and the current residents who already live there in order for them to be allowed to build it in the first place. Then in the future, they are selling it to potential residents, retailers, etc.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 257
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live near the area and I've been kind of concerned about this development since it was announced.

1st off: Traffic. Haggerty is already a nightmare, particularly during rush hour. The left turns to 275 from Eight and Six Mile Roads stretch forever and the wait is horrid.

2nd off: Lots of surplus empty retail in the area: As Paulmccall mentioned, not far west of this development is a strip mall that is almost completely empty. (Reason for that is Farmer Jack leased a store there years back and, though they left it, they refused to release the lease until the went under.) Now there's another strip mall at Five and Newburgh with a BIG gap from another vacated FJ and Rite Aid. Kitty corner from that is a nearly empty strip mall that lost a Blockbuster Video to an expanded Aco that then went under. Oh, and some creative developer put ANOTHER NEW strip mall at Five and Haggerty. That one has all of two occupants: a tanning salon and a pizza joint.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1284
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Is the financing in place?"

^ that's first and foremost
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 258
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Schostak has the funding lined up because this has actually been going for several years. Northville Twp. held up the plans for quite a while and are still battling some of the details.
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Flybydon
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Username: Flybydon

Post Number: 193
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a rather large section of property. No wonder Schostak wants to build on it.











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