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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1604
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad they won't run the streetcar again. That would do it.
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 1073
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think it has much more to do with southeast michigan being too much of an anti-urban crowd. i remember i was meeting with my family for dinner one night in downtown dearborn, and the people stuck in their cars, refusing to pay something like $0.50 to $3 to park were causing all sorts of traffic. and this was on a nice summer night, the weather was great, i just parked at one of the further parking lots, and i still only had to walk about 2 blocks.

its almost like lazy SE mich, cannot walk to park or pay to park. but ever go to a big box. after those cart parking boxes and the handicap spaces, you have to park a mile away. yet its free, so no one complains.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The non-military wing of Hamas is a respected organization in all of the world outside of the U.S. and Israel. Turn off the Faux News and think for yourself. The military wing is more controversial and doesn't have my support but is not as bad as as the U.S. or Israeli militaries. I think most people on earth would agree that the U.S. and Israel are the leading terrorist states in the Middle East. You may disagree, but this is reality.



Crawford,

What? Wow. What a post full of utter bullshit. First of all, what you posted is just not true. Second of all, Hamas is not as bad as the U.S. or Israeli militaries??? I think it's time you put your actions where your mouth is (or where your fingers are, in this case), and leave the U.S. since you apparently consider our military to be quite evil. How do you live with yourself paying taxes that support it??? Please, move to Gaza. I'll buy you your ticket. I'll even fly you over there first class. Good luck.

Now to refute your bullshit about "the non-military wing of Hamas is a respected organization in all of the world outside of the U.S. and Israel". It seems that Canada, Europe, Japan, the people of Turkey and Lebanon, and Human Rights Watch aren't too fond of Hamas either. But I know, Human Rights Watch, and the EU, are both under U.S. and Israeli control. Another damn Zionist conspiracy!:

"According to NPR, "Israel and many Western powers have struggled with how best to interact with a group that is at once labeled terrorist and, at the same time, is the legitimately elected leadership of the Palestinian National Authority."[112] Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by Canada,[113][114] the European Union,[6] Israel,[115] Japan,[116] and the United States,[9] and is banned in Jordan.[10] The militant wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, is listed as a terrorist organization by Australia,[117] and the United Kingdom.[12] According to the US State Department, the group is funded by Iran, Palestinian expatriates, and private benefactors in Saudi Arabia and other Arab states.[9] In a 2002 report, Human Rights Watch stated that Hamas' leaders "should be held accountable for the war crimes and crimes against humanity" that have been committed by its members.[118]
In a recent poll [30] "About six-in-ten Palestinians (62%) have a favorable opinion of the organization (Hamas), as do majorities or pluralities in Jordan and Morocco. Opinions of Hamas are divided in Egypt and Kuwait, and Hamas is viewed negatively in Turkey. The balance of public opinion in Lebanon is against Hamas (67% unfavorable), although the organization is rated favorably by half of the country’s Shia community. Hamas – a organization made mostly up of Sunnis – is overwhelmingly unpopular among Lebanese Sunnis.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H amas
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Miesfan
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Username: Miesfan

Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atwater, don't bore the room with all of your dreary facts and figures. Here try one of these little roquefort cheese morsels rolled in crushed nuts. Very tasty. Very subtle.
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Ptpelee
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Username: Ptpelee

Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, I live a mile from this strip, rumors of it's death are greatly exaggerated. With all the trouble at Ford's it's a miracle Downtown Dearborn looks as good as it does. Look back at what is was in the '80's and compare it to today and then we'll talk. THAT'S when all the retail left because of Fairlane! You want to talk about empty storefronts!?! and by the way, the Calvin Theatre was a dump! I saw roaches in the popcorn one night. And you never put anything on the floor there....Wow, it must have been a slow news day.....
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 557
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "and by the way, the Calvin Theatre was a dump! I saw roaches in the popcorn one night."

Yeesh..
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1187
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in "Westborn" and have never paid for parking when I go to "town". More often than not, the lots aren't even staffed, it's free parking.
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Rugbyman
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Username: Rugbyman

Post Number: 153
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Firstly, it's not as though you can't run errands- the first half hour is free. Cheap on the city's part? Yes. Complaining about paying 50 cents an hour? Even cheaper. As someone that frequents downtown Dearborn establishments, I don't think it's really that big of a deal. Pay your dollar and move on with life. It's not going to break you.

I also like how any time there's a discussion about Dearborn Hamas somehow comes to the party.
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Oakmangirl
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Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 592
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in "Westborn" and have never paid for parking when I go to "town". More often than not, the lots aren't even staffed, it's free parking.

Hmmm...I frequent the Wine Merchant and the booths are staffed.

I see a demise in the planning of West Dearborn; nearly all the independent retailers have closed (I fear Lynch's is next) to be replaced by ubiquitous chains. All one sees is the almighty car along Mich Ave. and too much parking. Did they even think of people wanting to stroll or enjoy a book in a small park? It all began with the closing of Jacobson's...it's sad they didn't go in a more progressive direction.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 146
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atwater, you are an utter moron. You're either absolutely brainwashed by Bush and jingoistic America Rawks! crowd, or you just hate dem A-rabs. Whatever your motivation, you are part of the reason this country has gone from the most loved to the most loathed power on earth.

You also have no logical reasoning skills. Just because the U.S. foreign policy is horrible doesn't mean I would prefer living in the Gaza (which you apparently don't know is a poverty-stricken enclave that is under full Israeli domination). Also, just because I disagree with idiots like yourself and the killers you elect to office does not make me less of an American. If you knew anything about this country, you would know that dissent IS patriotic, particularly when your country is willfully going down the tubes.

Since you apparently have more love for killing people and disagree with about 95% of the planet, I suggest YOU leave the U.S. and hide from society in caves with your other warmongering friends.
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 1075
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

uh... hmm.

ok.


back to dearborn.

i always thought that the creation of that new "urban style" strip mall was a good idea, but the parking lot in between both of those structures? huh? imagine if they just put a park or a foutain there like Campus Martius. That would have been good urban planning. but then it would be too far of a walk for some.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 351
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's get this thread back on track. If something else is so damn interesting, make a new thread in the off-topic forum.

Danny and others may think that this area is under demise but I think they are looking at too small of a timeframe. Compare what Westborn has going for it now, and how far it has come, within the last seven years. Look at all the new retail/eateries in that strip in addition to the places that already existed there.

Also compare it to the other "downtown" that Dearborn has: Eastborn. I don't see anyone romantizing the two Payless Shoe Stores they have within a 5 block distance of one another. Or the billiard and sandwich shop that just closed up it's doors not too long ago. Aside from the magnificent Arab American Museum, what big developments have happened there in the past seven to ten years? Montgomery Wards closing (let's hope it doesn't clash with the Schaefer Building across the street)?

One reason that many tenants on that strip are feeling the crunch is that most tenants are food joints. What's one of the first things you do when you're tight on money? You don't go out to the bars or out to eat as often.

On the other hand, maybe Dearborn is trying to place Westborn as a destination for food and drinks. Further down towards where the old Crowleys used to be you have big-box retail, sure, but try to think of any small or cool kitschy shops that might feel right at home in A2 or Royal Oak; there's not too many. But thinking of places to eat bring up plenty of spots: Einsteins, Mongolian BBQ, BW3's, Buddy's, Rio Wraps, Pizza Papalis, not to mention all the bars one could hop from on the weekend.

And how many of the places that have vanished in the past decade do you really miss? The few shops that I frequent are still there: Dearborn Music, Westborn Market, Merchant's Wine, Buddy's Pizza, etc.

Someone commented about the Moes openning up on The Hill (as my family calls that general area where the VA and landfill used to be) affecting the Westborn store. This is pretty much a non-issue. If they could somehow saturate the market, then why the hell did Target open up a shop right there? Same with Best Buy. They already have stores in Taylor between US-24 and I-75 but also have shops right up M-39 on Ford Road.

Point is, you cannot tell me an area is declining without both comparing it to another similar area and giving an elapsed time frame.

(Message edited by Sticks on November 08, 2007)
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 502
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always though Detroit could learn some lessons from suburbs like Dearborn, Birmingham, and others to attract retail and give them a more urban revision.
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 140
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I go to Dearborn often, and shop at Westborn, eat at Buddie's, dine at Annam, coffee at Starbucks and Caribou, sandwiches at Panera, sometimes buy CDs at Dearborn Music, buy wine at Merchant's, and frequent a few other places, too. It always seems busy to me. The strip mall with Michael's and Aco down by Military is just that-- a strip mall. It has free parking, to boot, but I don't even think about the parking issue. If I'm going to drive a car, I have to park it, and if it costs, that's part of the deal. I could go to a mall, but that's basically Anywhere, USA. The places I want to go aren't in a mall.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4561
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vernor in SW Detroit isn't exactly very busy either. Many apartments, including some recently renovated, have very low occupancies, and some are even now boarded up from the last time I noticed them. The same can be said for more of Vernor's retail stores.

Some of them are increasingly being shuttered, with their for rent/sale signs gathering dust. Do Mexicans get their hair cut that often? Barber shops and beauty parlors seem to have sprouted like mushrooms after a warm rain. One block alone has three of them, with others nearby. Is business so bad that barbering is all that's available for some shop keepers?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 511
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Some of them are increasingly being shuttered, with their for rent/sale signs gathering dust. Do Mexicans get their hair cut that often? Barber shops and beauty parlors seem to have sprouted like mushrooms after a warm rain. One block alone has three of them, with others nearby. Is business so bad that barbering is all that's available for some shop keepers?"

No, they pile all that Gel into their hair (mostly the men). Just like blacks put all that grease in their hair. I know I'm stereotyping, but many of the people I've seen do fall into it.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 512
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm still outdone by the 2 Krogers directly across from each other and the 2 Payless practically next to each other. The city would be lucky to get one Payless per retail district or one Kroger.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4562
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those two FJs were the direct result of heavy auto traffic forbidding left turns there for several years. Hence, there was one FJ on one side and another on the other. Quite sensible, for Westborn. It would be sheer folly for, say Seven and Gratiot--where the traffic is very light compared to what it once was there thirty/forty years ago.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 75
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Atwater, you are an utter moron. You're either absolutely brainwashed by Bush and jingoistic America Rawks! crowd, or you just hate dem A-rabs. Whatever your motivation, you are part of the reason this country has gone from the most loved to the most loathed power on earth.

You also have no logical reasoning skills. Just because the U.S. foreign policy is horrible doesn't mean I would prefer living in the Gaza (which you apparently don't know is a poverty-stricken enclave that is under full Israeli domination). Also, just because I disagree with idiots like yourself and the killers you elect to office does not make me less of an American. If you knew anything about this country, you would know that dissent IS patriotic, particularly when your country is willfully going down the tubes.

Since you apparently have more love for killing people and disagree with about 95% of the planet, I suggest YOU leave the U.S. and hide from society in caves with your other warmongering friends.



I'm an utter moron? Ha. Yeah. First of all, let's note which one of us came in with the ad hominem attacks first. That would be you. I attacked your argument, calling it "utter bullshit". You attacked me, calling me "an utter moron". Hmm, I guess you liked my use of the modifier "utter" enough to copy it. Cool.

Now, as for what you said.. I am neither brainwashed by Bush, nor anyone else, nor do I "hate" Arabs. I just happen to know some facts that dispute what you claimed. In this case, that the non-military wing of Hamas is NOT "a respected organization in all of the world outside of the U.S. and Israel", as you said it was. I presented facts to the contrary. You seemed to ignore them.

One more time. Human Rights Watch stated that Hamas' leaders "should be held accountable for the war crimes and crimes against humanity", to quote them. And public opinion in Egypt, Kuwait, Turkey and Lebanon is NOT clearly in favor of Hamas. Oh, and the EU.. and Japan.. more places Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization; more refutations of your argument.

It seems that you and I disagree on a whole lot. But I chose to post a response to you the first time because of that one particular statement that I knew was just asinine- that only in the U.S. and Israel was the non-military wing of Hamas not respected. What you said is not true. So, do you care to know the truth, or just maintain your propaganda?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 519
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always found Seven Mile and Gratiot a very interesting intersection for a long time. It's in a funny part of the city. In one part, you have mostly Middle Class residents. On the other, you have mostly poor/poverish residents. I'm sure there's enough traffic to support decent retail though (it's gridlocked during rush hour). However, I belive what scares many retailers and shoppers away is a lot of the crime. Of course, then there's the ripple effect. The Middle Class residents aren't going to shop at places where they fear their safety or will experience a low standard of customer service.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the club, Danny. What will KING O'REILLY do? To use your phrase, Dearborn will soon be ghetto.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4563
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the Detroit dailies considered 7 & Gratiot as being Ground-Zero for Detroit murders during a bad stretch of time for murders about five years ago.
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Raggedclaws
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Username: Raggedclaws

Post Number: 98
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 7:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ptpelee hit the nail on the head. The story was an overreaction to some natural & normal shake-out. There's been a lot of activity in that area - some businesses have stayed, others have made the decision to close up & move on.

West Dearborn, Westborn, 2nd Downtown...whatever you want to call it...dying ?

Hardly.

Oh, and gotta love the spirited discussion about Hamas. There's more to Dearborn than its Middle East connection.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 10882
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike,

I believe you are correct, Hezbollah, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of the Lebanese organization for sure.

Crawford, did I throw you a curve ball on this one, too?
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Ericdetfan
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Username: Ericdetfan

Post Number: 221
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats what I said...

Michigans economy sucks...but OMG Moes closed we had better call the national guard cause we all know that no businesses have been closing in michigan lately...something must be wrong!
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Treelock
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Username: Treelock

Post Number: 236
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The U.S. government tried to link La Shish owner Talil Chahine with Hezbollah - not Hamas. That said, much of what's been said about Hamas holds true for Hezbollah: a terrorist organization to some, humanitarian agency to others.

The official indictment unsealed against Chahine says nothing about supporting terror, but hey - that kind of formality has never stopped a federal prosecutor in Detroit from making potentially explosive allegations before, so why should it now?

And for the record, Chahine has been MIA for years and is believed seeking asylum in Lebanon. His wife was sentenced to jail time for tax evasion a few months ago.
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Oakmangirl
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Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 593
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And how many of the places that have vanished in the past decade do you really miss?

Many places. I miss Little Professor, Retro Image, F & M, the classic 50's era motel with the original coffee shop, the funky Mad Hatter café, the incredible vinyl selection at the better music store...it's now a bland, any suburb USA strip dominated by chains. I would hate for Detroit to model after that area.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1190
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 50s motel was the Mercury and it had a damn fine breakfast! Used to stop in on my way to work at Greenfield Village. Dearborn Music is still there on the corner and still has a great selection of vinyl.
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Island
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Username: Island

Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dearborn Music still has the creaky wood floors in the jazz/blues room that Plymouthres misses. Anyone remember the Happy Apple that used to be across the street and a few doors west?
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i was there last night, met with a few friends at one of the chain coffee houses. my friend pulled in, didnt find immediate parking, so he had to pull out a little further in one of the new parking structures, and bitched that it was a little further and about having to pay $.50.

im telling you, michigan is just not built to sustain, let alone ignite an urban lifestyle.
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Nz qp8tWZsQ

those damn crazy arabs, they are killing dearborn with this garbage.
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 65
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

at least millers bar is still there, i still miss the little professor,oh well i miss alot of stuff
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Neilr
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Username: Neilr

Post Number: 601
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Mike. That brightened my morning.
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Ericdetfan
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Username: Ericdetfan

Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

howells is still there, too i think
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6792
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So far the " Eastborn " section of Downtown Dearborn is doing fine. while the " Westborn " section of Downtown Dearborn is going belly up.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4579
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, where is Eastborn? The former store that two of my uncles formerly owned and ran for decades at Lois and Michigan in the eastern part of Dearborn is still vacant for the past two/three years. The two buildings next to it were demoed and are now vacant lots, and the former Shell gas station in that block is a parking lot.

There are other such vacant stores all along Michigan from Wyoming to further west out by Outer Drive. That's par for the course for a declining region. Many strip malls in all three metro Detroit counties have similar vacancies. Others do well, or at least, are doing business.
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 1084
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my friend just showed me that video, it actually takes place in the new parking structure put up in downtown dearborn.

i was looking at the dudes in the video, and I think i went to high school with those guys.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 355
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So far the " Eastborn " section of Downtown Dearborn is doing fine. while the " Westborn " section of Downtown Dearborn is going belly up.

Westborn probably has more money coming into it than there was five years ago with more retailers, eateries, and bars when compared to what seems like a stagnant Eastborn area. A new Kroger?! Sweet! But I hear that the Shaefer building is near 80% occupancy, which is great.

I consider ground-zero for Eastborn the intersection of Michigan and Shaefer. You have the Shaefer building on the NE corner, Dearborn City Hall on the SW corner, SE corner you have the old Montgomery Wards (which will be turned into something nicer than an abandoned building, check my earlier post for a link), and on the NW corner you have smaller shops. So essentially Michigan Avenue, between Greenfield on the west and Oakman on the east.
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Ericdetfan
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Username: Ericdetfan

Post Number: 233
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

eastborn is dirty

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