  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3490 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ahh. That seems like it would be not too hard if you were single, a little harder if you were married, and exponentially more difficult with each child. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2126 Registered: 04-2006 |
>How do you get your groceries home? Well, I don't live that far from the store I frequent (less than a 5 minute walk), so I just carry them. In the time most people walk across a Meijer lot, find their car and unload their groceries into their car, I'm at home putting my food away. A lot of people here also use those fold up carts to transport their groceries. I haven't bought one yet because I generally don't have that much to carry. I can either carry what I buy or stick it in a backpack. At the more upscale stores like Whole Foods you can also have your groceries delivered. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10726 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What's funny is that the people that live a 5 minute walk from a grocery store in SE Mich would never think to walk there. Most people around here would drive to a pharmacy a block away. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3956 Registered: 02-2005 |
That's been the story of the last few months for me, Fury13. It's a luxury having a decent grocer two blocks away, but I've lived off small, frequent trips to that store, and only gone to the Ann Arbor outskirts once or twice, bringing back small quantities on the bus. I feel I've lost very little of my time compared to driving. The motor car is a luxury item. There is no doubt about that. Yet it is not treated as such in Michigan and many other places. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2127 Registered: 04-2006 |
but I (and many others, I'm sure) have angry memories of waiting more for an hour for a bus that never came (that's when I'd start walking)! If anything, my car has liberated me. I know the experience. I have had to ride DDOT bus before and had the same experiences waiting hours on end for a bus. The difference is that it's the epitome of how a mass transit system shouldn't work. Especially not in a major city the size of Detroit. | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 234 Registered: 03-2005 |
321, I said "entirely car-dependent." You could drastically cut down on the need for an automobile by living and working in the same city, such as downtown Detroit, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Dearborn, etc. I lived for years in Ann Arbor without a car. Today, I'm unfortunately a slave to my wheels, but I at least appreciate and take advantage of the walkability and pedestrian scale of my home city. Most of the new developments that will be built in Clarkston or Holly Township or wherever, by contrast, won't have sidewalks or anywhere to walk to. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3491 Registered: 10-2003 |
"You could drastically cut down on the need for an automobile by living and working in the same city" No doubt it would be convenient if I could find a job in Ferndale. Until that happens though, I'll have to deal with reality. I'm certainly not moving out of a house I bought in a city I love, to live somewhere I hate (where my job is). That is the reality for a lot of people. Be understanding of that. It's hard to decide where your job is going to be. It's not always that easy to move near it. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1019 Registered: 11-2005 |
If this happens, the inner suburbs will see a lot of that urban decay their people are trying to escape. No way in this housing market and economy can you build, build, build without taking away from other areas. When will people learn? | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 803 Registered: 10-2003 |
English: I think it's a little silly to "ask permission" to move to any area based on any factor. Now whether or not you would feel completely comfortable would depend on you, your personality and tastes, etc. I grew up in exurban Rose Township, in NW Oakland County. There was an African American family on the same street as ours, and another large AA family on the next road over. AFAIK, there were NEVER any racial issues they had to deal with, no wierdness or funny looks. I can't say from firsthand experience that they never experienced prejudice, but this very white area of the county is very low key, laid back, and easy going, not caring one way or another. Everyone basically minds their own business and keeps to themselves. I think that is what many people are looking for when they move to areas like this, with 10+ acre, heavily forested lots on dirt roads. They just want to be left alone and do what they want. If a black family moves in, it's a non issue. I recently was able to stay in a Chicago neighborhood a few miles north of the loop. For one weekend, i lived a COMPLETELY urban, car-free lifestyle. Riding the train into the loop. We walked EVERYWHERE and it didn't kill us. We bought groceries at the store 3 blocks from our home, an el stop was 4 blocks away, numerous restaurants a couple blocks away, it is entirely possible and feasible, and you get LOTS of excercise. Maybe it's no fun in the middle of winter, or during a thunderstorm, but you just dress and plan accordingly. It was refreshing to shun the car and to walk everywhere. Where I live now is hardly urban, and there are strip malls everywhere, but i have and can walked to my dentist, car repair, video rental, grocer, Wal-mart, and bank, they are ALL at the most a half a mile away. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6782 Registered: 02-2004 |
I'm not celebrating urban Sprawl. It's EVIL!, it's stabbing other urban cities in the back like Detroit, killing off nature's forests and wiping out traditional farmland. It has to slow down. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 723 Registered: 09-2005 |
Mindfield, I think the phrase, "heavily forested" is a far stretch. I am sure that there are many trees on these 10-acre lots, but when you put a house, garage, one or two out-buildings, and a pool or garden, every 400 feet, then it is not "forest". | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2724 Registered: 07-2004 |
The affect crim has had on Detroit is inmeasurable.You all that downplay or attempt to dismiss it as not very important are simply wrong. Until crime is reduced in Detroit, if it is, we will never know the benefits. I don't blame the police their hands are tied by an idiotic city council mentality and a culture of lawlessness that is intractable. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2717 Registered: 11-2003 |
Crime and schools are the 2 big issues | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3963 Registered: 02-2005 |
So, to rehash: Detroit has a bit of a crime problem. [Leaving aside the fact that many parts of the city are very safe and while are very crime-ridden and the high statistics on average create a perception that the whole city is dangerous, which is false] Therefore, continued suburban sprawl, reaching the doorstep of Flint, is understandable? Considering the context of the last two posts, that's what I'm gathering. Regarding schools, again, why would people have to go to the fringes, where there isn't much of a tax base, and where there are townships instead of cities, to find good schools? A good school is found anywhere there is sufficient funding and families that care-- believe it or not there are even some in Detroit. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3116 Registered: 10-2003 |
"I am sure that there are many trees on these 10-acre lots, but when you put a house, garage, one or two out-buildings, and a pool or garden, every 400 feet, then it is not 'forest'." You know, 10 acres is quite a bit of land. Typically, those 10-acre lots come in approximately 330 X 1320 parcels, but if you're lucky you can find one with more frontage/width, so it could be more like 660 X 660. Even with space cleared for a house and backyard area, there's a lot of room left for woods and open meadows. If you space outbuildings, ponds, etc., 400 feet apart, that's a LOT of space in between. Consider that the normal city lot is only 30 X 100 and larger suburban lots are often about 75 X 150 (which is what I have now). A 10-acre lot can still have a decent percentage of "forested" area. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 725 Registered: 09-2005 |
Sure, in terms of downtown Detroit those lots appear large. Actually, however, 400 feet is not very far, and 10 acres is a very small parcel. Those new houses bring wandering dogs, wandering cats, kids with B-B guns, and teenagers with loud radios and roaring dirt bikes. Typically, the houses are not put at the front of the lot, so there is a 250-foot long driveway cleared out. In addition, trails get cut for walking and dirt bike paths. Real estate agents want to maximize road frontage, so most often the parcels are "bowling alleys", 165 feet wide by 2,640 feet deep. Species that have adapted to suburban environments, such as raccoons, deer, skunks, and canada geese are present, but other species that need real wooded, secluded areas won't come within a half mile of a residence; they are pushed out or die out. Some of those exurban estates are very pretty, but the very fact that they are there destroys any forest value the area may have had. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 402 Registered: 02-2007 |
It sounds as though some have no concept of what is entailed in an acre, let alone ten. Ten is an enormous piece of land - if a pack of wild Detroit pitbulls were to chase a frowning urban runner across a ten acre plot the anti-sprawler would be dead tired at the other side. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1452 Registered: 02-2006 |
I don't understand why we're still talking about Detroit's crime and Detroit's schools. We're talking about people moving from past M-59 to past 35 mile road. I'll have to tell my grandparents (who have since moved to Florida) that their former home in Lake Orion off Bald Mountain State Park is now "not rural enough" | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2726 Registered: 07-2004 |
A bit of a crime problem Mackinaw? I am guessing you don't actually live in Detroit do you? The rest of your post is useless rhetorical bullshit. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10735 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What an asshole. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3121 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alan55, we're talking about two different things. You're talking about exurban subdivision lots while I'm referring to existing rural parcels, usually on dirt roads. As I have said, I'm not in favor of exurban cookie-cutter cul-de-sacs plugged into former farmland acreage. I have NEVER seen a parcel out in NW Oakland County that measures 165 X 2640 (I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but I don't think that configuration is common). Some rural townships even mandate a minimum width of 300 feet for a lot. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 404 Registered: 02-2007 |
Thank you for that, JT. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10738 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No problem. I'll just hope that you or a family member get attached by a pit bull. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 406 Registered: 02-2007 |
^Nice thought, but I've not seen a pitbull since I left fair Detroit. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3968 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah CL, just useless rhetorical bullshit that cuts right into the argument that people sprawl 40 miles away from the city center because of crime and schools. What was rhetorical was my "bit of a crime problem" statement, which was understatement of course. Detroit could be Baghdad but it still doesn't explain why people have preferences over ___ Twp. in NW Oakland over established and perfectly safe suburbs in the inner ring. How can you pass that off as rhetorical BS? Funny that you claim to be superior to me in terms of judging Detroit's crime because I don't live in Detroit yet...we both live in the same damn city. | ||
Michigan_snowflake Member Username: Michigan_snowflake Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2006 |
I dont know why its so hard for some of you to understand that some people just dont like cities, or cookie cutter suburbs. Some of us like to live on dirt roads with wells and septic, no street light, neighbors etc. Some people want 10+ acres and a buffer zone from life and noise and people. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3533 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Some of us like to live on dirt roads with wells and septic, no street light, neighbors etc." Yes, like my parents 20 years ago. Unfortunately their dirt roads, no street lights and such are now paved roads and gridlock six hours out of the day. Time to move again, and abandon everything behind! Someone will take care of it, right? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3969 Registered: 02-2005 |
There's still no excuse for consuming so much land and needing so much space. I don't see how a nice urban backyard or a city park can't do the job. My family lives a block from Mack and the big, scary city. It is so eerily quiet and dark there at night. Very peaceful. Arguably more quiet than the cabin we go to in northern Michigan, which, being off of a high-speed 2-lane road, is not very in tune with nature because of that high speed traffic. There's a backyard with trees and gardens and little animal critters to look at (sorry no deer). (But I guess it's not worth it if you have to pay the damn taxes for your sidewalks and paved streets. I think it borders on immature the way some people want all the economic benefits of society/being in a metro area (i.e. employment) but hate people and anything that's out of their control so much that they have to withdrawl so far. I can understand retired people moving far away from the city; I can understand people who crave wilderness and can find other ways to make a living wanting to move out; I don't understand all these people who want one foot in either pond. They want the benefits of the city, but don't want to contribute to it. The psychology of it seems fascinating. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2727 Registered: 07-2004 |
Forgive me Mackinaw I was rude and I am sorry. My contention(Doron Levin et,al) have written it as well is that were Detroit to reduce crime in a significant and noticable way many of those people moving further out would not be inspired to do so. Here is an article http://www.racematters.org/rev ivalinharlemsheart.htm I have linked several times.If you have read it already I apologize.I think it is indicative and a realistic portrayal of what crime reduction has done and might do in Detroit. I don't disagree with you. However it is difficult I believe to criticize people that move further and further out when the major central city(Detroit) is in such turmoil. I thought it interesting that your family lives (if I understand correctly)just outside of Detroit.There, where they live it is quiet and peaceful.You have to know that those inside the city do not have that luxury.......although it should not be considered a luxury. I think you would find people would move into and back into Detroit if they thought it was safe. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 647 Registered: 07-2007 |
I think a ton of people would move back in if they KNOW it IS safe. There is the crux. |
