 
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1150
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:03 am: |    |
who's paying for the new building??? did quicken find a stack of unused cash, ripe for capital investment? and, if quicken's not paying for it - well, we've got the whole credit crunch thing going on right now. lenders are skittish, especially in real estate. i'm a little confused! |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1151
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:04 am: | |
p.s. speaking of credit crunch - quicken deals in what? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 657
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:29 am: | |
"who's paying for the new building??? did quicken find a stack of unused cash, ripe for capital investment? and, if quicken's not paying for it - well, we've got the whole credit crunch thing going on right now. lenders are skittish, especially in real estate. i'm a little confused!"
Nice way to down on everything Thecarl. Apparently, Quicken has a plan if they're planning so big in so little time. |
Jonnyfive
Member
Username: Jonnyfive
Post Number: 73
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:02 am: | |
"And if the PM track are in the way, construction will temporarily cut the PM in one direction... "
uhhh.... it only goes in one direction... |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:10 am: | |
now, rise, please. don't get emotional. just think things through logically in a dollars-and-sense perspective.
it does seems like a strange time to make a big outlay like that for a company in the mortgage business - and even stranger yet that someone would want to finance the endeavor at this time, if quicken can't afford it.
just be pragmatic. |
Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main
Post Number: 1349
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:11 am: | |
Since he is thinking big, i think he will build big on The Statler site, BUT he will bring company and development to the Hudsons site. I belive there is going to be a lot of energy down there and all those companies he urged to follow suit, Will follow suit.
There will be a renaissance in the GCP area and an added boost on the hudsons site with a campus like mix use with a hotel, business park with 4 10-18 story buildings on site. |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:13 am: | |
quote:Since he is thinking big, i think he will build big on The Statler site
awesome! how much$?
(Message edited by thecarl on November 15, 2007) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5758
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:23 am: | |
Doesn't Dan Gilbert own much more than Quicken? Didn't he sell it for $550 million and later buy it back for $50 million? So he got $1/2 billion out of those 2 transactions. Sounds like he's got some money stashed away somewhere (besides the Cavaliers).
As for specifics... we all know they're still a year away from specifics. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 987
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:26 am: | |
quote:it does seems like a strange time to make a big outlay like that for a company in the mortgage business - and even stranger yet that someone would want to finance the endeavor at this time, if quicken can't afford it
Do you think Gilbert would've committed to such a deal if he wasn't confident in his ability to follow through? The man clearly likes the city, but I doubt he likes it enough to put the future of his company at risk
(Message edited by eric on November 15, 2007) |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1159
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:37 am: | |
eric, the question is there. i'm making an observation. do i think dan gilbert would put the company at risk? no. do i think that he might be leveraging debt in uncertain times? absolutely. do i think the deal might ultimately fail because of the inability to secure proper financing? yes. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 164
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:59 am: | |
For the Hudson's block I'd prefer to see KDG's design of 4 mixed use buildings on the site. A 5 story fill in for the pedestrian mall area would fill in the street wall.
The Statler and Tuller sites would work fine for the Quicken 40-50 story hi-rise, and a residential tower around 25-35 floors at the Tuller site. Both buildings distinct, and modern with stepped discrete setbacks.
Parking for both at the back of the Tuller site to be shared with the new Olympia stadium behind the Fox.
Also a large two floor overpass from Statler site across the GCP Face of the UA Bldg. to the parking garage set to clear the PM tracks.
How's that for thinking big? |
Jonnyfive
Member
Username: Jonnyfive
Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 2:08 am: | |
Do you think the real estate market in the US is dead for good? Nobody is moving into this building for 3-5 years. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 165
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 2:13 am: | |
For those who don't know, KDG is Kraemer Design Group. KDG Look under "our work", "consulting"," the woodward block". |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2752
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 9:15 am: | |
"The Statler and Tuller sites would work fine for the Quicken 40-50 story hi-rise"
If you go by the Rossetti renderings, they seem to be looking at closer to 20 stories for Quicken's building.
"For those who don't know, KDG is Kraemer Design Group. KDG Look under "our work", "consulting"," the woodward block"."
Those images are posted in the following thread, along with some commentary on them:
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/116901.html?1193236579 |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 380
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
Warrenite,
I like that KDG design, however, I know there are some pretty people on here who feel pretty strongly about preserving the "canyon" effect of the streetwall. |
Bussey
Member
Username: Bussey
Post Number: 611
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
I'm thinking something like this...
|
Fjw718
Member
Username: Fjw718
Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:04 am: | |
bussey - you should see that building in real life. last time i visited pyongyang i got to get about 4 blocks away from it on the tour....the government wont let you get any closer and refuses to acknowledge that construction has even stopped on it. (it stopped around 1990) |
Bussey
Member
Username: Bussey
Post Number: 612
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:07 am: | |
That is the most crazy country ever. Why would they put that much money towards a project like that when their economy is in such shambels? |
Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge
Post Number: 335
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:09 am: | |
good one Bussey, now when is that majestic hotel celebrating its grand opening? ;-) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2190
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:12 am: | |
I like the KDG design better for the Hudson's site. |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 3589
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
"construction came to a halt in 1992 due to lack of funding, acute electricity shortages, and the prevailing famine. Official pictures of Pyongyang often show the building illuminated at night, but this is due to photo manipulation."
wikipedia
gotta love those krazy N. Koreans |
Marcnbyr
Member
Username: Marcnbyr
Post Number: 682
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:19 am: | |
Ok people...let's not all get swept up in the euphoria of the announcement and throw logic aside. I am admittedly 100% ignorant about all things engineering and development related, but let's use some common sense. Compuware when they moved, had 3700 employees; and they all fit into 16 stories. Quicken has slightly more employees, but not a significant increase...I don't think 30+ stories seems realistic. I would imagine that Quickens HQ will be comparable to Compuware, maybe a few stories taller due to a smaller footprint. Until someone can come on here and show solid, dependable evidence to the contrary, I don't think we should expect anything crazy (30-50 stories as some are claiming). |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2191
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
^As has been discussed before, the footprint of Compuware's building is pretty large compared to the sites offered to Quicken. |
Southen
Member
Username: Southen
Post Number: 346
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
The Broderick Tower would be the tallest abandoned building in the world if it werent for that monster in North Korea. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2193
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:33 am: | |
quote:The Broderick Tower would be the tallest abandoned building in the world if it werent for that monster in North Korea.
Well, technically that building in N. Korea isn't abandoned because it was never occupied, right? |
Marcnbyr
Member
Username: Marcnbyr
Post Number: 684
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:34 am: | |
I understand Compuware has a larger footprint, that's why I said that Quicken would probably be a little bit taller, but even 10 stories taller would put it at 26...not the 30+ people are claiming. And I don't think it's reasonable to assume it will be 10 stories taller...the employee numbers are pretty comparable, so taking in the smaller footprint, maybe 5, 7 stories taller? Even that is low 20's. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 381
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:39 am: | |
I'd assume that Quicken would build the structure based on plans to expand. If they have 4,000 employees now, I wouldn't be surprised if they build it based upon a max occupancy of up to 6,000 employees. |
Southen
Member
Username: Southen
Post Number: 347
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:50 am: | |
Iheartthed - I dont think occupation of a building directly relates to abandonment. I still consider the place abandoned, especially if you read up on its history a little bit.
Marcnbyr - I doubt that Quicken will go up one height throughout the Statler site. My guess would be that a tower portion would go up on GCP and the rest of the site would act more like a pedastal for it. I think something around 30-35 is reasonable. IMO they arent gonna come near 50 stories. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2753
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:00 am: | |
"Well, technically that building in N. Korea isn't abandoned because it was never occupied, right?"
Technically, that wouldn't even make it abandoned...it would just make it vacant.
For property to be abandoned it would generally have to not only be unoccupied but the owner would also have to voluntarily relinquish all rights, claims, title to and possession of the property with no intention to reclaim ownership in the future.
The Egyptian Pyramids were abandoned...the Ryugyong Hotel and Broderick Tower are vacant.
(Message edited by thejesus on November 15, 2007) |
Matt_the_deuce
Member
Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 762
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:05 am: | |
Remember - the whole footprint doesn't have to rise to the maximum height like Compuware, it could be more like the Book tower. A lower base and a tower on the park etc.
Quite a few options I'd say. UA building? ...... |
Matt_the_deuce
Member
Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 763
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:17 am: | |
Southen has quicker fingers... |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 664
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
There will be a lot of spurred growth from Quicken. Particularly when you consider them the World's largest Mortgage lender. If we don't get anymore headquarters, we will surely get more financial and tech jibs (but on a larger scale). development downtown. Look at all the tech jobs Compuware spurred when they moved... (Price WaterHouse, Ernst and Young, Visteon Initially, EDS, etc.) |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 717
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
they are not the world largest mortgage lender. they are only the 12th largest in the country. when you dont know what you are talking about, shut up. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:54 pm: | |
El_jimbo,
That is such a large site for a single building to preserve the streetwall effect.
I figure a 5 floor base over the entire site would be enough to give a streetwall effect. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 167
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
Question for those in the architecture field:
Did the set back laws for hi-rises, (NY & Chicago), get repealed when the purchase of "air rights" came into being? When?
(Setbacks were required for hi-rises in NY in 1916 and Chicago in 1922 so air and light could get down to the street and reduce the "canyon effect.) |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1338
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 1:11 pm: | |
no, they didn't. anyone who purchases air rights still has to abide by zoning and codes per that particular region. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 3:51 pm: | |
How many stories?
Well that depends..Let's say that none of the employees overlap.
A story about the boss and his secretary will only use up 2 employees, leaving 3800 employees to fill up stories.
The company Christmas party of the other hand could be one story that uses up well over half of the employees.
For the most flexibility, I would design about 10 stories for the 4000 employees.
1st Story: The boss and the Secretary = 2
2nd Story: The Christmas Party = 3183
3rd Story: The Company Fundraiser for Cancer = 102 (There would be more, but really...aren't these all separate tales within the bigger Story)?
4th Story: My Life in the City, Living and Working in Grand Circus Park = 58
5th Story: Dan the Man. How One Man's vision reshaped Detroit = 1
6th Story: Quicken Night at the ballpark = 622
7th Story: How Dan got Pete and Mike to sit down for Dinner = 3
8th Story: The Quicken Champ Car Memorial Day Race on the RaceTrack at Belle Isle...Roger does it again! = 22
9th Story: Livonia Transit System onboard for Express line to CBD = 6
10th Story: Santa ears red at New Knowledge Center development = 1 |
Nyct
Member
Username: Nyct
Post Number: 84
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 4:21 pm: | |
... |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5339
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 5:54 pm: | |
lol @ those 'stories'... |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 1:30 am: | |
Rsa when did NY and Chicago allow the modern box design without the set backs? The 1950's? |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 978
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:15 pm: | |
Am I the only one who finds it very difficult to believe that Quicken employs 4000 people, even in all of its offices combined? |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 407
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
If you compare the one floor square footage of the Statler and the Livonia headquarters, the Livonia headquarters is double the size. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 721
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2007 - 9:33 pm: | |
Quicken has a total of 685,000 sq. ft. of office space throughout metro detroit... so, however many floors that equates to depending on the footprint of the site they choose would be a good estimate. tack on a couple of floors for growth and a couple for atrium/lobby retail operations, and thats a good estimate. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:38 am: | |
warrenite; technically, chicago and NY have always allowed those "modern box" designs. if you notice all of those usually have a "plaza" or open greenspace in front of the building. older buildings primarily started at the sidewalk, then stepped back as the code demanded. the new solution to allow for a straight facade all the way up was to push the entire building back from the sidewalk so that the top floor was still within the limits. |
Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3840
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:38 am: | |
Industry standard is about 200 sq ft per employee. Cubefarms like Rock use much less per employee, but just go with the industry standard for now.
200 x 4000 = 800,000.
The Hudson's site is 2.3 acres. 1 acre = 43,560.
At a true zero lot line build out like the original Hudson's Building you have 100,188 in buildable space.
So 8-10 stories for the business operations.
Any retail and needed additional parking will push it to 15-18 stories.
Pretty simple. Knock off the blithering. |
Nyct
Member
Username: Nyct
Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:45 am: | |
can we still blither about the statler site? |
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