  401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2007 |
Before everybody says HERE WE GO AGAIN!, I know this has been discussed before but I would like to throw out a few thoughts as I've had this idea for a while. Detroit remains one of the only major cities without a downtown dept. store and a viable retail strip. I strongly believe this does as much as anything to provide a negative image to visitors, not to mention Detroiters' self-image. When the city/state is providing all these financial incentives to companies, would it not make sense to provide some incentive to develop a mid-size dept. store? The Baskin Robbins store, I assume, was given free rent by Compuware. It is run by Goodwill, so probably with free rent there's enough revenue for small proceeds to go to Goodwill and Compuware gets a tax writeoff on the space. Why not do something similar with a dept. store? The city and corporations such as Compuware, Gm, the casinos, Quicken and Ilitch would get together with a Target or JC Penny and find a way to open a store. They could combine tax incentives with customer service/supervisory/entreprene urial training of employees. This would allow Detroit citizens to gain needed experience. They could then move on to positions with the aforementioned companies, or anywhere else for that matter. Wayne County Community College could partner and combine business courses/co-op opportunities. Dan Gilbert's Bizdom U could fit in here as well. A small dept. store to provide an anchor, combined with Quicken and more residents should be enough to spur growth of 12-15 retail stores along Woodward. The key is to combine the right urban/suburban/office worker product mix to make the store viable. I could go on but I welcome everyone's thoughts. | ||
Jmarx Member Username: Jmarx Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2005 |
I think it would be great to have shopping downtown! However, I personally think that for a department store or mall to be successful downtown, it needs (at least right now) some gimmick to also attract the suburban crowd -- that is, I don't think it can sustain itself by downtown/city residents and downtown business traffic alone. (even with incentives) One solution might be to have an upscale store that doesn't already have a presence in the area... This would make it a 'destination' for city and suburban dwellers alike, and from there you could have spin-off business that could eventually sustain itself. Without that, I think a store would have a hard time competing with its counterparts in the already built-up shopping malls in the suburbs... Just my thoughts though... | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3615 Registered: 10-2003 |
It needs an Ikea. People drive from all over Metro Detroit to go to that damn Ikea in Canton. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 1378 Registered: 02-2004 |
Dillard's Detroit? I think the closest Dillard's is in Toledo. Honestly, I don't think a major Department store is going to be viable in downtown Detroit anytime soon. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5745 Registered: 08-2004 |
I think that the strong Canadian dollar is a great incentive for Canadians to shop in downtown Detroit, rather than drive out the the burbs on this side of the border. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 906 Registered: 12-2006 |
The downtown area population has to increase in order for a major retailer to give the area a serious look. Also, since our public transit is minimal, any major retailer would be very concerned about parking, as follows: If I am Macy's and I own a store at Oakland Mall, there are thousands of free parking spaces so my patrons can easily and freely park when they come to my store. If I were to consider a downtown store, in a downtown of a city with poor transit, just about everybody will have to pay for parking, which makes them less likely to come shopping at all. So my response is likely to be that I will continue to ignore downtown since there's no compelling reason to locate a store there. Note that "that Ikea in Canton" has acres of free parking. I'm not suggesting parking downtown should be free; I'm suggesting since the only way most people know how to get around Detroit is by car, parking is going to be a big issue with retailers. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1478 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: Not to mention be legally required to PROVIDE that parking, at your (Macy's, etc) own expense. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2007 |
Gistok, I live in the Toronto area and you would not believe how many people are flocking to Buffalo. It's been on the news how 50 busloads were held up hours at the border last Sunday afternoon on their way back. People are also driving to Erie, Pa. The problem for Detroit is that Toronto is a 4 hour drive.The Detroit area should really be marketing the casinos combined with shopping and getting people to come down weekends. Half of the 5 million people in Toronto were born in another country. They have no opinions about Detroit - positive or negative. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 907 Registered: 12-2006 |
I'm not sure, Focus, I thought the CBD had zoning which did not require individual businesses to provide parking since there are lots of city-owned and privately-owned lots. But I could be wrong. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 380 Registered: 08-2007 |
no | ||
Resurget_cineribus Member Username: Resurget_cineribus Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2006 |
Something like Ikea would be a great draw. Follow this link Downtown Detroit retail lags despite rise in residents http://www.cnu.org/node/1070 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10782 Registered: 10-2003 |
How about people support the existing retail downtown. I always hear 'downtown needs this and downtown needs that' but never see people shopping in the existing places. How can any chain consider moving downtown when local places struggle as bad as they do. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2007 |
My old hometown, population 11,000, now has a Wal-mart and a Zeller's (very similar-see Windsor). Transit or not, I just can't believe downtown couldn't support a Target store with the right tax incentives. I keep hearing how so many city residents have no car yet they get to Northland and Oakland Mall? Not to mention the growing Mid-town/downtown population. | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 153 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think a department store could survive downtown. Parking will be the biggest issue due too there not being a good transit system yet. People don't feel comfortable carrying bags from a nice store on a city bus, but would do it probably if there was a train or trolley.(Just my thought)There would have to be parking vouchers given to customers for unlimited parking around downtown. One of the real problems is that the current stores like J-Bees, Athlete's Foot, Tall-Eez, etc. don't advertise or market themselves enough. It took me to walk all around downtown to start shopping down here. On my lunch breaks I found out that there really is shopping here. No big department store yet, but there is shopping. So yes a department store can survive in my opinion but you have to really market, advertise, and offer parking vouchers to attract customers(for start-ups and small businesses).But if a big names comes in they wouldn't have to do as much because they are already known. Detroit needs to really awaken its entrepreneurial spirit once more. Look at Detroit's past. The Detroit of the past had people who opened up there own shop and didn't wait for big names. So when the stores like Hudson's Crowleys, & Kresge's were small stores, eventually they became big names. Have you ever seen any of the current stores downtown really market themselves with a commercial, newspaper ads, billboards, or radio ads, to get customers to come here. Office workers alone can't be the only ones. There has to be a connection beyond office workers who work in the ara. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4585 Registered: 10-2004 |
No! Nor could a vibrant city like Madison WI support any department stores or dime stores downtown, even small ones since the late 1960s. That's why there aren't any now, and there will be none. Just who would actually go to downtown Detroit for a department store? There's not enough people down there outside of business hours, and those there bug out of town quickly after work, and few live downtown. | ||
Artistic Member Username: Artistic Post Number: 61 Registered: 09-2006 |
Detroit may very well find it's future as a vibrant bustling downtown with no Dept. store at all. Many European cities such as Paris...yes I know there are dept stores there however you can walk for many blocks throughout the city and find so many stores and not one dept store. The question is "Do we need them any longer"? | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2007 |
If Madison can't support a dime store, it's hardly vibrant. What about free parking on the Cobo roof/Joe Louis garages? You could validate at the store for parking and people mover tokens? Remember, the idea is to improve the image of downtown with city and corporate support behind the project also. If a small dept. store won't work, does this mean we will never see any retail along Woodward or do you not need any type of anchor store any more? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 908 Registered: 12-2006 |
401, the number of shoppers at Northland or Oakland who get there by bus is a very tiny part of the total shopper population. Go to one of those malls and watch the bus stop for a couple hours. Lots of people get on and off the buses but most of them are transferring to other buses. And, the Wal-Mart and Zeller's in your old hometown are surrounded by hectares of free parking, I reckon. At Northland and Oakland and the other 'lands, the vast majority of shoppers drove there and parked for free. 3420 gives a history lesson but forgets that when Hudson's and so forth were growing downtown, Detroit had one of the finest transit systems in the midwest, unlike today. If people are driving, which is pretty much the only way most Detroiters get around, they will only park in paid lots if there is some compelling thing going on they can't get elsewhere, such as a Red Wings game. A Macy's won't do it; you can go to a different Macy's and NOT pay to park. LY, downtown could become a shopping destination if it had an unusual and attractive mix of stores; that's how many big cities set up their downtown shopping districts. But we have some unusual infrastructure problems, as mentioned. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4587 Registered: 10-2004 |
Madison is very vibrant, but its former downtown was replaced forty years ago with a number of megamall "downtowns" several miles away from the Square. Back in 1970, whatever small amount of shopping that still remained there only had one night weekly when some stores stayed open to 8 PM. Otherwise, they closed around 5 PM. But the mega malls were open to ten--later for the multiplex theaters and food courts. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1479 Registered: 02-2006 |
It still boggles my parents' minds when they come visit me in Chicago that the little mom and pop stores in my neighborhood "commercial strip" are open until 9 or 10 on weekdays. And I don't live in Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2188 Registered: 04-2006 |
The question is "Do we need them any longer"? Yeah, I'm thinking along this same line. Personally, I say no. Maybe there could be small to medium sized department stores in a few locations throughout the city like Bloomingdale's has here in Manhattan, but I think Detroit's ship has sailed on the big downtown department store like Macy's Herald Square. The main reason being that there are already so many big department stores in other parts of the area. There isn't much need for a big centralized department store anymore. Not unless it was a unique store that would draw attention you couldn't find elsewhere... Like say if Harrods wanted to open a store in the Detroit area or something along that line. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 3574 Registered: 02-2007 |
wasn't macy's considering closing the Michigan Ave store in chicago due to poor sales compared to the suburban mall stores? | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 3575 Registered: 02-2007 |
Any big shopping boom would almost have to be built-in to some new development, including a downtown grocery or department store. I do think a unique to detroit department store, like dillards (never been, are they nice?) or like the Century21 store in manhattan and bay ridge. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4588 Registered: 10-2004 |
Detroit's bus systems cover the city about as well as they did five decades ago. BTW, buses are faster and roomier than streetcars. Besides, people today don't want to use buses for hauling their booty home as they had to back after WWII. Times and customs have changed. Events won't change much just because a few people may move downtown. I do not foresee any critical mass of shoppers ever returning to Detroit's CBD--regardless of any mass or rapid transit. We're not living like our grandparents any longer. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3627 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bars and boutiques, along with restaurants, both local and chain are the most likely businesses to be successful. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2007 |
Livernois, I know what you're saying about Madison. Places like Dearborn and Windsor could be booming economically with their megamalls providing all their retail, but to the visitor they see a boarded up downtown and the impression is "this place is dead." In that respect, Detroit actually has more going for it than smaller cities who have only their retail downtown. I just worry that the demographics in Detroit don't support the upscale, smaller retailers that you see in Paris, Chicago, etc. Maybe Detroit needs to focus on more service- oriented stores on Woodward ie. the fruit market/deli, dry cleaners, florists, etc. We need anything that will fill up those spaces. I am excited about the changes the past 10 years. It was in 1966 when I first visited Detroit with my parents. Hudson's and Tiger Stadium kept me coming back every year for 30 years. It's just that I'm 50 now and I can't wait too much longer. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2007 |
Make that 40 years since 66. Man, I am old. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 381 Registered: 09-2006 |
I still think a store chain like Kohls or Target would do the best initially,,, good value, good prices, average quality, name recognition. Start there and progress forward.. To say there is not enough base downtown is totally incorrect. Look at all the neighborhoods, office workers, visitors, etc..... Towns like Howell can support it, there is no reason Detroit cannot. Its the typical old sterotyping thats preventing it. There are thousands of mid to good income earners from downtown along lafayette park, indian village, Harbortown, and farther along,Let alone Corktown, midtown, Southwest Detroit etc.. For some reason developers refuse to open their eyes, take a drive through the areas and evaluate | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 962 Registered: 10-2003 |
Offices are not a great deal of help towards a viable downtown shopping environment. You end up with 3 peaks. A small one in the morning as workers come into the area, a pretty good sized one at noon time, and a small one when workers go home. The other 6 hours of the typical retail day are dead. What many smaller cities have done to energize their downtowns is to encourage destination stores to locate downtown. By that I mean stores that carry an item unique enough that they may be the only store in the market to stock that type of item. The best shoe store, the best clothing store, etc. Stores that generate their own foot traffic without having to resort to having to use a department store as a draw. Develop a shopping district like that, and larger stores will follow. Once the population downtown increases, I could see a "junior" department store (Federal's sized), but I can't see a major coming in without both a massive population and income increase in and around the downtown core. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2793 Registered: 11-2003 |
I cannot see a dept store Downtown anytime soon. Not enough population, look at how the Wintergarden suffers and that is with that huge population of RenCen workers M-F. |
