  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3644 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Consumer Reports' 2007 "Annual Car Reliability Survey" is out, and Toyota has declined slightly from its established position as unimpeachable quality king, while Ford's domestic brands have improved. The independent product review think tank, based in Yonkers, N.Y., says the V6 version of Camry, the top-selling mid-sized car in America, and the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the Tundra pickup--both of which were redesigned this year--now rate below average in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability rating. The all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS sedan also received a below-average rating, and therefore no longer makes CR's "Recommended" list." "The survey is also giving kudos to Ford Motor--saying that Ford reliability is the best it has been in years, with 41 of 44 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury models scoring average or better in predicted reliability in the survey. Standouts are Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans, and two-wheel-drive Ford F-150 V6; Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX, as well as the freshened Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator, were all average or above. David Cole, chairman of the University of Michigan's Ann Arbor, Mich.-based Center for Automotive Research, says the results may conceal what he says is a near parity among automakers. "Fifteen years ago there were real measurable differences, but there is not a whole lot of difference in quality between products today."" http://publications.mediapost. com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Artic les.san&s=69329&Nid=35342&p=40 0825 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3645 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =EWjTbiYo3x0&feature=related Toyota Tundra bed bounce (which Toyota denies) demonstrated in comparison with Chevy and Ford trucks. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1746 Registered: 08-2006 |
If only pictures of smug Toyota owner's grins disappearing could be posted with the article. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3646 Registered: 10-2003 |
"The news was far more upbeat for Ford, where 41 of the 44 models in the survey scored average or better reliability. The Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ midsize sedans all scored near the top of their class, just behind the benchmark Honda Accord; the Ford Edge and Taurus, Mercury Sable and Lincoln MKX had strong showings as well. Champion said Ford was approaching the kind of across-the-board quality buyers used to associate only with Japanese brands. “Ford is moving the whole company up,” Champion said. “There’s consistent improvement at Ford. Apart from their diesel and four-wheel-drive trucks, they seem to be doing very well.” The Consumer Reports study follows a J.D. Power analysis in June that also found Ford had improved its quality, even for brand-new models that are typically Detroit’s downfall. “We’re very pleased with the results, and we’re seeing consistency in the indicators that we’re substantially improving our quality,” said Graydon Reitz, Ford director of quality for the Americas. " http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20071016/BUS INESS01/71016050/0/SPORTS15 | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 675 Registered: 09-2007 |
And I'll guarantee you, some idiot Americans despite of this will still double-cross the big 3 for them. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5143 Registered: 10-2003 |
Finally, the media is catching on that Toyota isn't all it was made out to be, at least from a PR standpoint. I'm waiting for the 5 usual suspects on DY to post some bullshit experience about a Chevy Corsica in 1990 and how Detroit's cars suck and yada yada yada | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2005 |
Well said Patrick. What this really is, is redemption for the domestics where "quality parity" has been a reality for a number of years. Unfortunately, it was going to take something as drastic as a stumble by Toyota to wake up CR, who some may know I've been very critical of in the past. The fact that they gave "automatic" recommended ratings to Toyota/Lexus/Scion up to this point shines a light on the weaknesses in their testing and their long-term bias toward Japanese brands. That same Chevy Corsica was, and is, tainting CR's ratings of the vastly better cars being produced today. (Message edited by fastcarsfreedom on November 15, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10798 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: It won't disappear. The American consumer hears what they choose to hear especially when it comes to the company that they prefer. I'm guilty of it as well. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1511 Registered: 02-2005 |
Consumers still like the Lexus: http://www.jdpower.com/corpora te/news/releases/pressrelease. aspx?ID=2007270 Also, I just read an article the other day stating the Jaguars and Lincolns depreciate faster than nearly all other cars (retaining a much lower % of their original cost after 5 years). Yet, both did quite well in the quality surveys. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 583 Registered: 02-2007 |
Fury? What say you??  Seriously, it's about time a report like this comes out. The media has people in this country believing, if you buy foreign, your transportation troubles are over. Even our own local news stations rip apart the domestics with complaints like mirror placement, legroom and other such BS. Cambrian, thats a great visual. | ||
Onthe405 Member Username: Onthe405 Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 |
Exactly what does "predicted" reliability mean? Sounds to me like Miss Cleo is the consultant on this auto marketing mumbo-jumbo. Some of the most disastrous models ever made were preceded with glowing JD Power satisfaction surveys conducted within the first year of ownership. The synonyms for reliability are "consistent" and "dependable". Neither one of these characteristics can proven without one crucial element: TIME. I can run a machine through exhaustive tests in a lab and end up with entirely different results once it is placed in the hands & environment of the user over the course of time. Toyota's only mistake is tinkering with a successful, reliable product rather than simply refining it. So glad to hear that Expedition & Navigator are among the highest quality products. I'm sure this information will be great consolation to the owners forking out $70 a tank at the pump for their behemoth dinosaur. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3181 Registered: 10-2003 |
What do I say? It's inevitable that Toyota's quality would slip a bit as production ramps up. For the record, I would never buy a Toyota truck. I don't think Toyota does trucks well... at least not yet. But I'm VERY happy with the build quality, reliability, and versatility of my $16K Yaris hatchback (that's loaded). And, it gets a dependable 35 mpg all day long. When Ford or one of the other domestic automakers produce something comparable (or better yet, something that is better in terms of my criteria) to what I have now, I'll certainly take a look at it. The big reason that I didn't buy American is because the US makers didn't build a car to meet my needs (low total operating cost, low initial purchase price with options, high mpg, decent cargo space). That, I believe, will change soon. I'll be ready for another new car in 2013. We'll see what the US companies offer at that time. (Message edited by Fury13 on November 15, 2007) | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 584 Registered: 02-2007 |
Consumer reports is about as reliable as the National Enquirer. I stopped reading it when they named the Vega "Car of the year" Any tradesman in practically any field, share a common opinion, Consumer reports isn't worth the paper it's written on. If a scandal emerged that they went favorable to the highest bidder, I wouldn't be surprised. Money and people breed such situations. 100k to sway a report? No obligation to any agency for accuracy? Hey there's a media opportunity for 20-20. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 719 Registered: 11-2006 |
Big news. Good news. For all the trouble the big 3 have been going through, in the long haul I believe this really will be quite beneficial, and all 3 will be able to return to profitability and prosperity, although on a smaller scale than the past. this will still be quite a feat | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 348 Registered: 05-2006 |
This is great news especially for Ford. However, it does not prove those of us wrong who have criticized GM and Ford in the past. Quote: If only pictures of smug Toyota owner's grins disappearing could be posted with the article. Unless they just bought a car this year they will still be smiling. The quality has improved this year but has no effect on older models. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2202 Registered: 04-2006 |
Here's some good news for GM. Tahoe Hybrid SUV named Green Car of Year: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/1 5/autos/green_car/index.htm?cn n=yes | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2472 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: If only quality rankings were the compelling reason that most people bought cars, Ford would be looking good. Of course we all know that is not the case -- right? | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1251 Registered: 11-2003 |
Right, its only the excuse that people who like exporting money to Japan use to justify themselves (in the past). Whats the new justification going to be? Ford Escape Hybrid gets 34MPG in the City. Better than driving a Yaris. Wonder what the Fusion Hybrid will get? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3193 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Ford Escape Hybrid gets 34MPG in the City. Better than driving a Yaris." Not quite. A well-optioned Yaris costs only about $15K to purchase. A well-optioned Escape Hybrid costs at least $30K. Some Yaris owners get 40+ mpg. I drive without too much care in trying to maximize gas mileage, and, as I said, still get an average of 35 mpg. And, what does it cost to insure an Escape Hybrid vs. a Yaris? Total operating cost is the key. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 273 Registered: 06-2007 |
My belief is that Toyota had such a good reputation from the media, like CR, that they figured they had a monopoly.People swore off American cars forever in favor of Toyota.They'll always be back. So it was no worry if quality dropped. American companies thought "People are loyal, they'll forgive us and buy another one of our cars." They apparently learned from the mistake that Toyota is making. As I've mentioned in previous posts, my '94 Chevy had a self-destructive interior that was crumbling at 75,000 miles.At 95,000 miles, my 2000 model has a much more solid interior. The panels and overall assembly has improved. Looks like they may have gotten the hint that the buyers have other options and will use them.This should be interesting. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 585 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "My belief is that Toyota had such a good reputation from the media," I agree with that. I've owned an Toyota and Honda, back in my "whatever" phase. They were no better than the domestic brands, in actuality they weren't as good. The Toyota ate two front axle assemblies in the period I owned it and was very expensive to repair. The interior was just total junk. The sun ate some of the plastic as there was no UV protection, poor engineering. The air conditioning was a crap shoot wether it worked or not. Oh yeah, then the factory installed sun roof leaked after about the first year and was a constant battle trying to resolve that. The Honda was plagued with electrical issues and went through a few starters and alternators. All in all, I'd have to say the domestics are now better than the imports were a few years back. I don't think Toyota's quality has dropped, rather they are being given a more honest appraisal in lieu of our domestic car issues. No more apologies for their junk. | ||
Detroithabitater Member Username: Detroithabitater Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2006 |
"...Some Yaris owners get 40+ mpg. I drive without too much care in trying to maximize gas mileage, and, as I said, still get an average of 35 mpg. And, what does it cost to insure an Escape Hybrid vs. a Yaris? Total operating cost is the key." But there is a downside to driving a Yaris..... ...and that is....well that you're driving a Yaris. Agreed that total operation is key. (btw did you know brake pads on HEV Escapes last up to 100k miles because of regenerative braking?) But really they are different classes anyhow and that accounts for some of that price gap. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 201 Registered: 02-2007 |
WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA! | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 702 Registered: 09-2007 |
Buyamerican, meet the 2000s. 2000s, meet Buyamerican. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2739 Registered: 07-2004 |
Toyota has a good record for the simple reason that people have had an overall great experience with their cars. I am glad the domestics are catching up.The problem for the domestic however is this; how to get disgruntled customers back.............appeals to "buy american aint gonna do it.........too much money at stake. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 586 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "The problem for the domestic however is this; how to get disgruntled customers back............."" Oh it's easy. Soon as consumers realize the absence of their purchase from US markets DOES matter. When they see their neighbors getting foreclosed on and their own family members out of a job, their own job shaky. Plants closing and the American dollar dropping globally by the day. Then they'll realize. Sort of like whats going on right now. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 7176 Registered: 11-2006 |
Personally, I had a very bad experience with a 2003 Toyota. Add that o the fact that they have no exciting products, and the US automakers have a nice opportunity. Ford is the one US automaker that needs to spice up their product lines more than any. Since SVT went away, and the GT finished its' run, only the Mustang has any performance in its' stable. Everything else is a dog. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2740 Registered: 07-2004 |
Nope that aint gonna do it stsashmoo...... besides many people now work for toyota nad honda and whoever else in the u.s. The true test will be as someone else mentioned in several years.............can the u.s. co's match long term quality? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 587 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: ".............can the u.s. co's match long term quality?" I'm really wondering where this opinion is coming from. A few here keep chanting domestic quality issues. What domestic company or vehicle in particular had a substantial quality issue in the last 20 years? And was it ignored by the manufacturer? Personally, I don't know anyone that has bought a domestic car in the last 20 years and was sorry for it because of poor workmanship or parts. They may have not "liked" the car, but it wasn't an engineering issue. I drive a Ford, and I'll admit given their 70's 80's track record, I was apprehensive. I'd buy another no questions asked. It's been a flawless vehicle. Can you name any particular vehicles and any particular problems? In the last 20 years. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 274 Registered: 06-2007 |
"I drive a Ford, and I'll admit given their 70's 80's track record, I was apprehensive. I'd buy another no questions asked. It's been a flawless vehicle. Can you name any particular vehicles and any particular problems? In the last 20 years." The Focus was recalled for 7 or 8 different defects in the 2000 model. "Add that o the fact that they have no exciting products, and the US automakers have a nice opportunity." In some form at least. The latest Prius is without a doubt the ugliest car on the road today, and this is from a guy who has a Gremlin and thinks Pacers are one of the coolest cars made. Ok, the mid-70's Mercury Comet was the most vile looking car made, but the Prius isn't far off. |
