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Norwalk
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Username: Norwalk

Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have lived in Hamtramck for the the last 7 years. The first 2 years I rented and then decided to buy. I purchased a 1500sq ft home built in 1920 for $87,000. A great house! I really can't imagine myself living anywhere else. About 80% of the people who live on my street are foreign but all very nice and we all look out for one another. In the summer everyone sits on their front porches. There are ton's of children which I take as a healthy sign. Great markets all within walking distance. Also you are right off the 2 major freeways. There also has been alot of new homes built and also a lot of new commercial sites as well.
The down sides are few, high taxes with very little city services. Insurance is high as well and to be honest its a dirty old town. and I love it! For wealth of information check out http://hamtramckstar.com/
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 277
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you move to Hamtramck, make sure to bring an old plastic lawn chair to use for your street-side parking.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 1108
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget to look into the West Village, Islandview Village and Woodbridge Historic Districts in Detroit proper.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 278
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouth isn't Royal Oak (except in prices) but you would get better schools and it's a nice straight shot to Ann Arbor for those who have work/school there. If you want an "urban" experience, I wouldn't tell people to move to the Novi/Northville/Plymouth area but I can get from Novi to parking at the Opera House garage for a Tigers game in 35 minutes or less. 275 to 96 can get you downtown pretty quickly and during off-peak hours, 96 to the Lodge will get you downtown from Novi in 30 minutes or less.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5787
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Billpdx, maybe if you were new to the area, you probably wouldn't be familiar with all of SCS. The housing costs run from about 80,000 to about 2/3 million $ or more for those on or near the water.

Take a drive down Greater Mack (it starts and stops several times) from 10 1/2 mile to about 13 1/2 mile. You'll be surprised at the wide array of brick homes available. Some of these are similar to those found in East English Village. And many of the lakefront canal streets are identical to EEV, but they have canal frontage in back. In fact many of the huge houses along the lakefront have a 3rd floor addition built onto the houses and some include a "widow's walk" on the 4th floor.

And if living near the water is beyond your pocketbook, take a drive down Alexander, Erben or Yale (or any of the other dozen streets in the area between 10 1/2 & 11 Mile). Between Jefferson and Harper they can match anything that can be found in Royal Oak, but at much less the price.

And there are some really nice restaurants among the marinas, such as Jefferson Beach Club.

Granted it's not as lively as Main Street in Royal Oak (most of metro Detroit isn't that lively)... but you get way more bang for your buck in SCS.

On the plus side is that you're also near the upscale shopping and restaurants on Mack Ave. in the Grosse Pointes.

Also some folks on this forum have an issue with law enforcement in Macomb County... I don't... it takes all of 3-4 minutes for a 911 call response in SCS.

(Message edited by Gistok on November 21, 2007)
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 3253
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Macomb County law enforcement is OK, if a bit heavy-handed at times. It's the court system and the politics in Macomb that are crooked, and there is an underlying racist tone there in many communities. Just my opinion.

I agree, though, Gistok, SCS is fairly nice in terms of neighborhoods and housing stock.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1410
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The greater Downtown Detroit area might be what you guys are looking for. Check out these neighborhoods:

Downtown
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/downtown.aspx

Midtown
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/Midtown.aspx

New Center
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/newcenter.aspx

Corktown
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/Corktown.aspx

Woodbridge
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/woodbridge.aspx

Indian Village
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/Thevill.aspx

East English Village
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/eastside.aspx

Mexicantown
http://modeldmedia.com/neighbo rhoods/mextown.aspx

Also, you might want to use an agent to find the right place. It won't cost you anything since they are paid by the landlord you sign with. I suggest Margaret Palmer, www.margaretpalmer.com, if you're looking in Detroit city proper. She lives in Woodbridge and is quite knowledgeable about the local real estate scene.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 279
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We are a young couple, in our early 20's. And we are looking for a town that offers diversity, entertainment, culture, and good food! Plus, a live music rock venue/bar and a close proximity to Joe Louis Arena would be great."

Where is this in SCS? Great place to live if you own a boat or enjoy the water but not exactly the center of cultural attractions for 20-somethings, is it?
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 966
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where in the state would you be traveling? I'd think freeway access would be a consideration.....
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 4314
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JfNJ, welcome to the forum and welcome to the D! Both Royal Oak and Hamtramck are excellent choices, but I am partial to Hamtramck for its color, diversity, great ethnic shops and restaurants, art scene, music scene and much more.

It has a street life and is buzzing with activity and energy. It reminds me of a lot of neighhorhoods on Chicago's north side or some areas of Brooklyn -- vibrant, scrappy, and with a visual surprise at almost every turn. I lived next door in Highland Park for almost three decades and shopped in Hamtramck. The Polish New Palace bakery makes the best hard rye bread anywhere and the lean chunk sausage of the Ukranian Kopytko's Market in unsurpassed [get one that has been dried for about seven days]. There are a lot of upper-lower flat opportunities which tend to be very secure and you will be in the middle of everything in Detroit with easy expressway access to airports and beyond.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5625
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba reminds us that airport access may be a consideration. Sclepping to Detroit Metro often from the Eastside is NOT recommended. There is no decent rapid transit to speak of and taxi fares, shuttles, etc. are expensive.

Thus, a Westside neighborhood or an inner Westside suburb would be just fine as a rental.
There are 350,000 Arab-Americans in Detroit area, and they are mostly on the Westside.
Warrendale in Detroit and Dearborn's Eastern area are modest places, full of cheaper places to live.

Now Dearborn being Ford Country, you better abandon that Asian rice rocket before you hit the state line. Any GM or Chrysler product will also be ok. Auto insurance prices are higher within the Detroit City Limits, so we have warned you. That would include Hamtramck. Since you live in NJ, you know about car safety,
we are sure.

If you need to walk to synagogue or jonesing for a corned beef on rye, we recommend one of the Jewish areas on NW side. This would be nice neighborhoods of Oak Park, Southfield, or Farmington Hills areas. Although Jews live everywhere, 80,000 of us mostly live NW.

jjaba.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1180
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here's my take on royal oak: because i am a contractor, and i never know for sure where my jobs might take me, i chose r.o. because of its proximity to i75, woodward, and 696. the 20-25 minute radius from my house covers a lot of "employment centers," if you will, in southeast michigan. also, i can make downtown detroit in 15 minutes, as i'm near downtown (southern) royal oak, close to the expressway. that was a big factor for me, as detroit activities are a big part of my life (especially the tigers, lions, and wings!) (and, the architecture.) (and river.) (etc.)

being close to downtown r.o., i have a wide variety of dining choices (cuisine and ambience) and night club venues (although there are only two live music joints in the immediate downtown, that i'm aware of - memphis smoke is well-known among michigan's music pros). there is one live theater, and an art-film theater downtown.

there are three grocery stores in the downtown area: one is full-selection (i mean, they have practically anything you might want - including a sommelier) but is somewhat pricey; one is marginal-selection, but has low prices and a first-class meat department, and the other is a top-notch organic foods/herbalist store.

also, i have easy access to a downtown gas station, barbers, a hardware store (the kind with everything in it, and they know where everything is - as i found out when i went in this weekend to get parts for a blown-out water heater), a car wash, car dealers, auto repair, radio repair, musical instrument (lessons, sheet music, etc.) place, aquarium shop, major book retailer/community center (barnes & noble), community centers (ymca, salter center, high school with pool open to public, etc.), retail, bakeries, and a community college.

the taxes are probably high, but city services are top-notch. the police and fire departments have very fast response times, and the library just underwent major renovations. roads and drains are in good repair, and i've found out how lucky i am to have leaf pick-up service that vacuums up leaves that are piled at the curb. my home has enough of the oak trees that define "royal oak!"

while i go to church in detroit, there are a number of churches of varying denominations near downtown royal oak.

and, as indicated previously, the de facto regional mass transit (bus) system runs through royal oak, and has a downtown hub.

i do not yet have kids in school, so i can't say much about the school system.

there are no downtown fitness facilities that i'm aware of, except for community centers; it's easy to find places to jog, but it's not easy to find places to ride a bike for long distances without getting tied up in traffic. there's a water park with a wave pool in the city, maybe ten minutes from downtown.

hopefully, touching on all these points will help you think about what you enjoy doing, your lifestyle choices, and what community is right for you at this time.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1494
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

there are no downtown fitness facilities that i'm aware of, except for community centers


Unless it has closed, I used to belong to a gym at 4th and Lafayette.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1181
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

focusonthed, thank you! i just yelled upstairs to my wife - "hey, is there a gym at fourth and lafayette?"

yes, there is!

strange that i forgot, folks running on treadmills and doing their workouts behind the tall street-level windows.

thanks for the reminder! and that's the thought behind my post, the stuff you don't think about until it's not there...

for example, beaumont hospital - state-of-the-art, and four minutes from downtown. i forgot that too. i mention that because i dream of one day living in the mountains of colorado, but i wonder what it would be like being far removed from expert medical practioners and a modern medical complex - especially when i, or a family member, has a medical emergency or complicated diagnosis.

(Message edited by thecarl on November 21, 2007)
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 152
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let me put in a plug for Rosedale Park or Grandmont. Houses are very affordable and it is a tax abatement zone (lower property taxes for 12 years). Location is outstanding-- literally 15 or 20 minutes to just about anywhere west of Van Dyke by car, including downtown Detroit, Dearborn (and the Amtrak station with free parking!), Metro Airport, Novi shopping area, Birmingham, and Royal Oak/Ferndale. The Grand River and Fenkell bus routes cut through the area. Shopping is fair, but you can get everything you need within the neighborhood. Nightlife in the neighborhood is sparse, but once again, very near by car. Demographics: professionals and business people, high level of college educated, crime levels like Novi, etc. You can get an amazing house for a price that will drop the jaw of an east-coast native. Prices are about 60% of a similar house in Dearborn, or Royal Oak... a quarter of what it would cost in NJ.

As for diversity-- there are few places that I would call really diverse in the sense that New York is diverse. One ethnic group or another will have an overwhelming majority, except in a few places: Dearborn, Dearborn Hts., Hamtramck. Ferndale is 91% white. Oak Park and Southfield are roughly 45% white, 45% African American. Some outlying suburbs have perhaps 8 to 15 percent minority populations. Remember, when census numbers are broken out, those of Middle Eastern heritage are not reported separately. Here's a link to SEMGOG's data page.
http://www.semcog.org/Data/Com munityProfiles/index.htm
I've lived in Royal Oak and Ann Arbor and loved both. I've lived in Detroit for over 20 years, and I love my neighborhood. I think the idea of renting for a while to learn the area is a good one.
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 819
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 3:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't go wrong with RO, Ferndale, Hamtramck, or downtown Detroit.

I would recommend downtown Detroit. It and midtown are a cultural powerhouse for the area. All the regions sports (except Pistons), gaming, theater, opera, festivals, and museums are in the near downtown core. New riverwalk, new YMCA, world class urban park, Eastern Market for fresh food, shopping exists, but is much more plentiful in the suburbs. Can't get much closer to Joe Louis. There are a ton of restaurants in downtown and midtown. Indian, Asian, Cuban, Barbeque, Sushi, wine bar, martini bar, Greek, soul, very expensive to inexpensive. Movie theater (first run) in the Renaissance Center, although it doesn't have stadium seating or a ginormous screen like the suburban multiplexes.

Auto insurance will be higher in Detroit than the suburbs. Property crime might be a concern if you must park overnight on the street. Garage or secured lot parking is the best option. Personal safety will not be an issue, just use common sense.

Downtown and midtown are undergoing an impressive amount of redevelopment and investment. Not anything approaching Manhattan vibrancy or investment levels, but impressive for this region that has long shunned the downtown and city as a lost cause.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5630
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Parkguy, just curious, can you note the racial makeup of your areas?

Thecarl, define "salter center." jjaba doesn't get out much.

jjaba, Proudly Westside.
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Elsuperbob
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Username: Elsuperbob

Post Number: 92
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jfnj, Montclair is a nice town in a great location. I'd say to get similar historic character here some of the above mentioned neighborhoods in Detroit would do well. Also the Grosse Pointes would get pretty close. They've been mentioned above I believe.

And there are some areas of Dearborn that could come close as well in the city's west end. The Ford Homes Historic District is nice (http://www.fordhomes.org/). There are also some larger homes of various early century styles in the blocks just north of Downtown West Dearborn where you can find many restaurants and some bars (but fewer and fewer retail choices).

And you can find some interesting cultural makeups in Dearborn. My block has Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Romanians, Poles, Italians, Hungarians and Irish.

And with access to M39, I-94, Michigan Ave. and Telegraph Rd. you are less than 20 minutes away from Western Wayne County, Downriver (South) and Detroit (East).

Of course non of the places here are in the foothills and won't offer the views that can be had from Montclair over the Hudson and across to New York.

(Message edited by elsuperbob on November 22, 2007)
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi jjaba!

first, the salters:

quote:


Jack and Patti Salter, [are] honored with their name on a Community Center in southern Royal Oak for their countless hours of community service. They adopted 4 children, John, Brigid, Robert, and Mary, and now have eight grandchildren.

Patti (Cronin) Salter was born at home in Detroit, Michigan. She graduated from St. Anthony High School in Detroit in 1951. Patti attended the University of Detroit and Detroit Business Institute. She worked as an executive secretary at Chrysler Corporation’s Defense Operations division. Patti worked hard as a mother and took on other jobs over the years. But many hours of volunteer service at the Shrine of the Little Flower church and schools kept her busy for many years.

Jack Salter graduated from John Muir High School in Pasadena in 1949. Then joined the Air Force in 1950 after the Korean War started in June of that year. He served in near Manila and on the island of Luzon in the Philippines as a radar operator flying over the South Pacific in B-17s and B-29s. Discharged in May 1954, Jack returned to college at Pasadena City College with an associate degree. He then transferred to Wayne State and graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree with a double major in history and social studies.

Jack’s career started at the Pasadena Boys Club in 1954 in the athletic department. Since then, he served as Athletic Director at the Boys Club in Highland Park, with two stints as Executive Director in the Boys and Girls Club of South Oakland County. Jack also was an Assistant Vice President at First of America Bank from 1991 till 1993.

Now working part-time at the 44th District Court, Jack writes advocate columns for the Daily Tribune and Mirror newspapers.



now, the community center (from a press release circa 2001):

quote:

The nearly 50 year old building will undergo a dramatic renovation funded entirely by grant funding courtesy of the Community Development Block Grant Fund Program and A Clean Michigan Initiative Grant. Plans include a new gymnasium with two, full size basketball and volleyball courts; a dedicated room for seniors; computer labs; upgraded arts and crafts center; kitchen facilities; multi-purpose dance, ballet and meeting rooms; and a functional, multi-use lobby.

The building is scheduled to be completed and open for business in April of 2002. Landscaping and various site work will be completed in July 2002. The Boys and Girls Club will use part of the building to host activities for kids 6-18 years of age. The remainder of the center will be used for recreational activities through the city parks and rec. department and for programs for seniors through the senior center.



there you have it...the salter center is a modern, multi-use facility that hosts a variety of activities for folks from all walks of life.


thecarl, proudly "southside" - royal oak, that is!
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Meaghansdad
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Username: Meaghansdad

Post Number: 159
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royal Oak, and anything anyone else says is fairly negligent.
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Hpgrmln
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Username: Hpgrmln

Post Number: 282
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There have been a few shootings in Hamtown lately.There was a fatal carjacking and several people were shot at the polish festival.
I live near Royal Oak, and not Hamtramck. Crime is the number one reason for that.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 5172
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dude just move to Ecorse and everything will be alright.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 1114
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Meaghansdad
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Username: Meaghansdad

Post Number: 159
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 4:02 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Royal Oak, and anything anyone else says is fairly negligent.

------------------------------ -------------------

WHAT???

Why don't you go find a tailor-made sweater vest or something?
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 154
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba:
The Grandmont-Rosedale area is about 90% African-American overall, 8% white, 2% other groups. My specific area (Rosedale Park, south of Grand River) is about 60% African American and about 40% white. That's based on a quick guess based on the couple of blocks around me.

http://www.grdc.org/economic_d ev/org/dem.pdf
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think anyone can assure jfnj that Hamtramck is a safe place to live in. I have never lived there and I'm more of a west side person, but from what I have seen it would be safe enough for me to live in, but I have no reason to think that jfnj and I have the same standards.

Nowhere is safe--life is risk. That is not to say that some places are not safer, even much safer, than others, but even so safety is not some quantity that is the same for everyone in the same location--your lifestyle and behavior interact with your location very strongly to affect your safety.

The sound advice given and apparently taken earlier is that jnfj should rent a while before deciding on a location--he and his wife should be in a much better position to figure out whether they are comfortable in different areas after being more exposed to them.

What might be a slightly controversial piece of advice is that if jnfj is the kind of person who asks about whether a particular place is safe, he might want to err on the side of greater safety when first arriving in the area. The argument for this is that if he starts out in a place that turns out not to feel safe to him and his wife, they are likely to want to leave again in a hurry, which could be both costly and annoying. They are unlikely to be as anxious to leave somewhere because it seems inconvenient or boring.

Also, I am unaware of anywhere in the Detroit area that is very similar to Montclair, so wherever they move will require some adjustment. For instance, crime in Montclair appears to be significantly lower than crime in Royal Oak, but Montclair is more racially diverse. Hamtramck has much more crime than Montclair, is similarly diverse, but much poorer. While providing suggested locations for them to check out is perfectly reasonable, I am doubtful that anyone can make a confident statement about what the best place for someone else to live is without much more information than is available on this thread.

Good luck to jnfj on his move!
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Frumoasa
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Username: Frumoasa

Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although I feel terrible about the young lady that was carjacked and shot at the credit union, that is definitely not the norm in Hamtramck. And the shooting at the Labor Day festival was an outgrowth of a large outdoor summer gathering of people, it happens and it is not indicative of the community at large. That is the same as a young man that was shot in Royal Oak and dragged himself before he collapsed on a front lawn. Yes it happens, but it is not indicative of a community. Definitely rent for a while and see what you like. If you are renting in Hamtramck, the best place to check for rentals is on the board in the Polish Market on Jos. Campau. There are a variety of flats and houses. Also take the time to drive the streets and see what you like. The area between Holbrook and Caniff close to Jos Campau is the main business district, so for walkability, that is a great place. There are some lovely peaceful neighborhoods at Conant north of Caniff that have some great rental deals. Also look at the area of Detroit north of Carpenter (south of the Davison) and east of Jos Campau. It is a great, diverse ethnic neighborhood and you can get some great rentals for a great price with all of the proximity to Hamtramck. Hamtramck would be a good place to try living first because the rent is cheap and many people are small time landlords so they would be willing to rent on a shorter term basis so you can get a taste of the area. I can assure you that Hamtramck is a great place to live and explore ad you will surely develop a taste for something new that you find here :-)
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Hpgrmln
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Username: Hpgrmln

Post Number: 284
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With all due respect...
1) I was talking to a lady who lived in Detroit. She didn't like Detroits reputation for crime and felt it was unearned. Then I mentioned the name hamtramck, and everything changed. "Oh, that place is bad.I lived in Hamtramck for a little bit and I'll never live there again." Then she proceeded to tell me about the fight on her corner where 20 kids went at it with bats.

2)Sitting at a table with a few guys, a current resident of Hamtramck was talking about how many gunshots he hears on new years. One guy asked if it was a rough area, to which the resident said "oh yes, it's a REALLY rough area" and backed it up with personal experiences.
This is in addition to numerous people I've heard say that their family left due to crime.
Don't get me wrong, I like certain things about Hamtramck. But I try to be honest and not in denial.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 1115
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why don't more people who have never worked or lived in Hamtramck come on-board here and tell us all about what they've heard?

And with "all due respect" to Hpgrmln, your shitty comment about being "honest and not in denial" is insulting to me.

Your anecdotes are bullshit. Citing SOMEONE ELSE'S experiences is lame at best. Don't go around spreading other people's shitty experience as matter of fact.

If you want anecdotes, here's one: Up until last year, I worked in Hamtramck in a capacity that allowed me to get super-close to the residents. I can tell you for a fact that a majority of Hamtramckers I know feel quite content in their neighborhood.
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Dhugger
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Username: Dhugger

Post Number: 255
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Jfnj.
1. I would suggest looking at Metro Detroit communities with authentic downtowns. Not the post war bedroom communities.
2. Then review their highway/street access to your daily needs; Detroit events, airports, highways, grocery stores and the like.
3. Areas that come to mind that may not have been addressed above: Midtown / Cass Corridor, Birmingham, old Farmington, Pontiac, Ypsillanti and more.

When we chose an area to move to I looked at having numerous routes into down town when I was commuting. We now have a small yet walkable down town and are within 25 driving minutes from either downtown Detroit or Ann Arbor.

Yes renting is a great suggestion so you get familiar with the many different flavors of our diverse community. Welcome.
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Hpgrmln
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Username: Hpgrmln

Post Number: 286
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric-
When I make an investment, such as buying a home, I rely on information from people who have been there.If 75% of the people I've talked to had bad experiences, that tells me a lot.
A lot of people come on here talking bad about Troy, hating on the suburbs just because it's not their style.I grew up in Troy and it's not the hateful place people (who have never been there)here say it is. But I bet those comments don't bother you.
If I talk to 10 people who live or have lived in a city and they 8 say they felt unsafe there, I think it's a little more than paranoia on 1 or 2 peoples behalf.
It was on this site that someone posted the list of Michigan cities with highest per-capita rates of violent crime, in order. Hamtramck was way at the top.
I'm a member of a law-enforcement union and I research crime statistics often.
So please try explaining to me why it's so high on the list.
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Meaghansdad
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Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric-
I can say those things about Hamtramck because I lived similar conditions, the east side of Detroit, and my 'hood was working/middle class adults.

We need to attract people to this area, and advertising Hamtramck as a community isnt one of them.
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Frumoasa
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Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hamtramck has a lot of auto theft, which is attributed to the large business district and club scene, so all the cars that get stolen from suburbanites while they enjoy a night at the bar get added to our "car thefts per capita" statistic even though the owner lives in Macomb Township. The thriving bar scene unfortunately lends itself to a lot of assault charges as well when people get rough and rowdy after a night of hard drinking and the cops get called. The Hamtramck statistics are high for a small area but also reflect the fact that there is a price to pay for clubs and bars on near every corner. The incidence of break ins and car thefts for residents I am sure is a different statistic. My neighbor owned a minivan that he broke the window on because he locked his keys in (not a bright man) so he left this open windowed minivan parked in front of his house and drove it every day...did it get stolen? No. Primarily because it was a sh*tbox, but there are many different variables that affect those crime statistics. According to those same statistics, Mackinac Island was high crime last year too...probably some fudge thefts...but we have to consider population, lots of tourists and all the other variables.
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Rjk
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Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...so all the cars that get stolen from suburbanites while they enjoy a night at the bar get added to our "car thefts per capita" statistic even though the owner lives in Macomb Township."

Is the theft statistic suppose to follow them home to where they live?
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Frumoasa
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Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely not. But when people that do not live in the city of Hamtramck have an effect on our area, it is best to note where the statistics come from. A car parked in a city parking lot is a much more likely target than my car parked in front of my motion sensing light equipped house where I am watching TV in the front room. There is a difference between problems that affect the city at large and problems that affect the residents. A resident will be more concerned with city services and local jobs than car thefts in front of Whiskey in the Jar. Just know where the statistics are coming from...in statistics, it's called a "lurking variable."
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Hpgrmln
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Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, heres your other option.
Visit or call the police station. Tell them you want to move there but have concerns about crime. Let them tell you what areas to avoid and what kind of crime trends the city is facing.
I saw a mobile home park that offered affordable housing in a peaceful rural setting. I called the sheriffs department. Their response over the phone? "It's not a good place." Told it like it is and I needed not ask further.
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Rjk
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Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A resident will be more concerned with city services and local jobs than car thefts in front of Whiskey in the Jar. Just know where the statistics are coming from...in statistics, it's called a "lurking variable."

That makes sense if you're willing to overlook your increased insurance rates, businesses relocating elsewhere if the problem gets bad enough including other crimes that a car thief will be committing. My guess is that a car thief is committing B&E's and other assorted crimes.

I wouldn't feel that much more secure knowing that there is a nogoodnik stealing a car over at the local grocery store a opposed to stealing it out of my garage. It's obviously a lot less hassle/financial cost for me, but it's still a major problem that I'd be concerned about.
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Danny
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Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MOVE TO DETROIT, THAT'S WHERE THE ACTION IS.
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Jjaba
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Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Parkguy. Rosedale Park is a great area, full of lovely older homes with good design and well built. jjaba hasn't been out that way for a long time, so glad you like the neighborhood.

The carl answers about the Salters. They sound like a great couple for whom to name a youth center. Thanks for your post.

When jjaba goes to a new town, he looks for Jews. jjaba's father would even look in the phone book and find the schule, JCC, etc. So it is interesting to read this thread from the perspectives of others. Although they lived there for some generations, Hamtramck is not known as a Jewish neighborhood today. Are there any Jewish merchants left?

jjaba, Westsider.
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Ray
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Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, I will take some flack for this but I suggest that you also add Birmingham to your
list.

My wife and I have lived in Chicago, NY, DC and SF and we truly love cities. We moved here 3 years ago and prior to that I had taken the subway to work every day for 17 years. We specifically picked birmingham because it most closely replicated the lifestyle we had in Chicago and SF (i.e. sophisticated neighbors, walk as much as possible, near zero commute distance).

At least to me, the most authentic big city experience in Detroit would be of course Detroit proper and then Hamtramck. Being in Hamtramack, I feel like I'm back on the Northside of Chicago in the mid-1980s before it got totally upscale.


Royal Oak and Birmingham also have a city feel, although it's the feel of a more gentrified and pedestrian neighborhood in the city. So, for example, you could cut downtown Birmingham or downtown Royal Oak out of the map and drop it into San Francisco anywhere west of VanNess or in Chicago North of Armitage and they would both be nice upscale neighborhoods that most yuppies would be happy to live in.

Royal Oak has more of a youth/entertainment feel and Birmingham has more of a upscale boutiquey feel.

Birmingham gets a lot of bad press on this forum because 20 or 30 years ago its was the bastion of the preppy well-to-do and few posters have a realistic idea of what the city is all about today. It's rapidly urbanizing. Ironically, most of the preppy old gaurd hate what Birmingham has become, yet they continue to be the stereotype of the town. Many people who live there have moved to Michigan from other major cities proper. It has comparatively excellent bus service, and is one of only 3 communities with rail service. The downtown is undergoing growth with several new office buildings. There is an exciting plan to turn the somewhat neglected east side into a high density urban neighborhood. The city has just liberalized its liquor laws so we are hoping for more bistros and small restaruants. There are two nice movie theatres downtown.

Plus the schools in Birmingham are top notch and crime is almost a non-issue.

And there are a ton of bungalo houses near downtown that you can pick up now for very good prices.
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Billpdx
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Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait... Did you say they fixed the liquor laws?

Thank god. Trying to find a pub to stop at in Birmingham is ridiculous. There's like... one or two? And so many restaurants don't serve beer, either.

Otherwise, definitely a nice town (but waaay expensive real estate!)
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Oldredfordette
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Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A vote for Royal Oak. I have lived here since 1994 and would not live anywhere else in the metro area. I know it's yupped up, I know it's hard to get a parking space on weekends, it's very fashionable to make fun of Royal Oak. But I love it.

You can walk and shop and see movies, as stated above. What I love is the varied neighborhoods, from very upscale single family houses to lofts and condos to bungalows to working class level homes. Trees and parks. 20 minutes tops to Joe Louis Arena. The Royal Oak Music Theater books national acts, The Magic Bag (right next door in Ferndale) does too. Between R.O. and Ferndale there are lots of music clubs.

The price is right.

If I couldn't, absolutely couldn't, live in R.O., I'd go to Ferndale.
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Bearinabox
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Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this an election? If so, I vote Hamtramck. Like it says on the coffee mug I just finished drinking out of, it's "the end of the rainbow."

(Message edited by bearinabox on November 25, 2007)
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Hpgrmln
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Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, thinking more about it, I'd go with Ferndale too.
Good compromise. Safer than Hamtramck, cheaper than Royal Oak, and very likely a tighter, stronger group of civic boosters/community activists than both. Close to I75, providing quick access to Hamtramc/Detroit, and nearly bordering Royal Oak. And Woodward runs through it so theres a busline.
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Yelloweyes
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Three Bedroom 1500 sq foot Brick colonial for 138,000. Two Blocks from Grosse Pointe. 10 minute drive to the city. Buy my house.
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The_ed
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yelloweyes:
"Three Bedroom 1500 sq foot Brick colonial for 138,000. Two Blocks from Grosse Pointe. 10 minute drive to the city. Buy my house."

Got any photos?
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that it is amazing that there have been tons of posts here and not a single one has mentioned Wyandotte downriver. It has a great downtown, is very walkable and safe, is close to the river and you can be Downtown in Detroit in about 10 minutes. I don't live there, but I have friends that do and they love it. Plus housing is CHEAP!
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E_hemingway
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did mention Wyandotte in my first post, but you're right on about it. That is definitely one of Metro Detroit's diamonds in the downriver. It's definitely comparable to Royal Oak, Ann Arbor, Birmingham and Ferndale as far as suburban downtowns go, but cheaper.
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Durango
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am originally a Detroiter, but I had lived in Montclair during the late eighties while I worked for American Cyanamid. I lived at 145 Park Street. If I was relocating to the Detroit area in search a "Montclair of the Midwest" I would have to take Gross Pointe or Royal Oak based on housing stock, perceived safety, access to services, ability to walk or run outside in relative safety. If you're living in Montclair today, you could probably afford Royal Oak or Gross Pointe with today's southeastern Michigan real estate market. I don't mean to offend Ann Arbor or the other cities that were mentioned, but I have the fortunate experience of living on Montclair and it was great, just stay away from Patterson.
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Jt1
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to show the absurb attitudes around here. There are so many swearing up and down about the crime of Hamtramck and the wonder of Ferndale.

Here is a comparison. Both have 21K residents.
2006

Hamtramck (scary place)/Ferndale (wonderland)

Murder: 1/0 (+Hamtramck. Significantly insignificant)
Rape: 7/9 (+Ferndale. Significantly insignificant)
Robbery: 172/43 (Edge Hamtamck but both still low)
Assault(116/67) (Edge Hamtamck but both still low)
Property Crime (1236/771) (Edge Hamtamck but both still low)
Burglary (272/157) (Edge Hamtamck but both still low)

So in summary. hamtramck has more crime but both are relativley low crime areas. This just illustrates that listening to people (such as Hpgrmln just shows that opinion is much more important than facts)

Consider what is best for you and take much of the "that area is terrible" non-sense with a major, major grain of salt. If you prefer Ferndale that is a great neighborhood but don't rule out a place like Hamtracmck because someone that doesn't know a damn thing about it decides to speask as an expert.
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Frumoasa
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Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice post JT1. Thanks for bringing in some hard data because we've had a lot of opinions about Hamtramck, it's nice that my experience seems to be the norm down here. Overall, I really do feel comfortable.
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Yelloweyes
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Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Ed:
can not seem to upload pic. Email me at am4709@wayne.edu if you are interested. Wood/Ceramic Floors throughout, central air, fenced yard 1.5 car garage 1.5 baths.

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