  Jfnj Member Username: Jfnj Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello, My wife and I will be relocating to the Detroit area at the beginning of the new year. We are currently living in New Jersey and the closest we've come to Detroit geographically is Cleveland, OH. We have done some research and have narrowed down our choices to Hamtramck or Royal Oak. both towns sound great for what we are looking for (night life, restaurants, etc) but I was recently told by a co-worker to stay out of Hamtramck because of the crime, etc... Any advice? We really like all aspects of the town, especially the price in comparison to Royal Oak. Can anybody assure me that Hamtramck is a safe town live in? Thanks alot.... Looking forward to our move to THE D! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3775 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ferndale! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3776 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, and uh, welcome to the forum Jfnj. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2977 Registered: 11-2003 |
Safety is a bit relative. My parents and most of my relatives are from Hamtramck and I have been there many, many times - but never lived there. I have never experienced crime there, but I know some who have. I have lived in the Royal Oak area, specifically Berkley and Huntington Woods. Felt very safe there. Personally, I would choose the Royal Oak area | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1493 Registered: 02-2006 |
Hamtramck is mostly property crime issues. Normal city stuff. Don't leave shit in your car. Where are you from in Jersey? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 580 Registered: 11-2006 |
I would say check out both places in person. Talk to people around perspective homes and make the choice you are most comfortable with. Hamtramck does have typical urban crime issues, minor vandalism, and car theft if you are not care full. Royal Oak and areas around it are more expensive in both local cost of living and home prices. Also check out other areas of Detroit, Midtown, Indian Village, etc. Take in to consideration where you will be working, the distances can be pretty far in the metro area, and which direction you have to drive or if you have to drive so you don't have to deal with rush hour. Good luck on the hunt. | ||
Frumoasa Member Username: Frumoasa Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2007 |
I live near Greater Detroit Hospital which is the border with Hamtramck. I literally can throw a stone from my backyard and have it land in Hamtramck, but I am on the Detroit side. I live on a great street with good, quiet neighbors from Ukraine, Poland, Bangladesh and Yemen. That being said, I enjoy the proximity to Hamtramck, but have to deal with Detroit city services. Hamtramck city services are better than Detroit, and there are a variety of public and charter schools that serve the community. I have owned my house for a year and have been broken into once on the 4th of July when we were out of town, but my neighbors called the police and the thief stole about $125 worth of stuff and broke a small window. Since then, we have been more aware, but haven't had any problems directed against us. The problem directly inherent to my street is that we are precisely 100 ft. away from Hamtramck, which means that suburbanites that feel safe in Hamtramck drive down to the neighborhood bars then head to my side of Carpenter to pick up a prostitute, because they know police patrol is much more lax on our side. That is the worst we have to deal with. It's disheartening and disgusting, but nobody bothers us...so in response to the safety of Hamtramck, it is just a normal place where if you keep your nose clean and your possessions well protected, you will most likely be fine, but crap happens everywhere, even in the suburbs. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 1106 Registered: 11-2003 |
If you only feel comfortable around White people, choose Royal Oak. If you're comfortable with your neighbors being over 50% foreign-born and English as one of only 37 languages being spoken, choose Hamtramck. I worked in Hamtramck for six years and still live very close right now. It's a great town, no question. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10850 Registered: 10-2003 |
The real estate market will continue to get worse in metro Detroit for at least a year. I would recommend renting for at least 6 months so that you can determine what place, style of home, location, etc work best for you then make your decision. Unfortunately, with the divisive attitudes in metro Detroit it is hard to assume that you are getting an unbiased opinion. As an example i would receommend Detroit but that may not work for you but it is my preference. On the other hand many people will probably tell you to not even step foot in Detroit. The opinions in this area are pretty extreme. Rent for 6 months and but with a more informed opinion. There's a good chance that homes will cost less in 6 months anyway, fed may lower rates again but it is very unlikely that they will raise them in that time. The best opinion for where to live is your own and a short rental time, while inconvenient will allow you to make the decision that is best for you. | ||
Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 125 Registered: 04-2007 |
Important things to check are tax rates: 1. Detroit and Hamtramck have resident income taxes, Royal Oak does not. 2. School taxes will be significantly different. 3. County taxes will vary - Wayne vs Oakland. 4. General city property taxes will be different. 5. City services per tax dollar will be different. Renting for six months is a great idea so you can get the "lay of the land". Ethnic food is great in Hamtramck. | ||
Fmstack Member Username: Fmstack Post Number: 11 Registered: 06-2007 |
My condolences re: moving to the Detroit area. Hamtramck, especially the northeast corner of it, isn't half bad -- but get used to the fact that the clerks at the gas stations, video stores, and post office are walled in behind plexiglass. I'm guessing the glass is there because insurance companies demand it -- the crime rate doesn't seem to be as bad as advertised. The combination of Middle Eastern and Eastern European influences in the town is both cool and deeply strange, but be prepared for how run-down everything seems on the outside. It's something like a marginal neighborhood in Brooklyn -- but unlike marginal neighborhoods in Brooklyn, it's not getting better and there's not nicer places nearby. What you see is what you get. There is, though, a weird energy to the place, since you can tell that it takes constant work/civic involvement to keep the town from turning into another Highland Park. Oh, you can't walk or take public transit from Hamtramck to anywhere else, something that's surprising, to me at least, for somewhere close to downtown. However, if you're real comfortable having a car lifestyle, that might not be a problem for you. Ferndale is quite nice for the area -- if you stand at the corner of Woodward and 9 you can pretend you're in a place that's actually a place. Several good bars/clubs, a couple of nice health/organic food stores, some bookstores and coffee shops, and though it doesn't have the small-but-thriving-city feel it's aiming for, due to the horking huge road bisecting it, well, you can pretend. Royal Oak is a bit tacky, I think, but it's closest to having something like a real version of the small-college-town feel that so many of the northern suburbs are trying to fake together. Basically, if you want to picture Royal Oak, picture a place with all of the restaurants, bars, and shops you'd expect to see in a college town, but replace them with their chain-store equivalents. It's sort of a glass-half-full situation. I personally prefer Ferndale, but your tastes may vary. If you're planning on being at least a little bit non-car-bound, Ferndale or Royal Oak are definitely the places to be. The SMART buses run fairly regularly up and down Woodward, and even in the evening you sometimes see white people on them, which I guess is the gold standard as far as perceived safety in the Detroit area goes. In any case, good luck! This place is wicked hard to hack out a life in, but if you go in informed you can make a go of it. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1409 Registered: 11-2004 |
Model D and metromode, www.modeldmedia.com and www.metromodemedia.com respectively, are local ezines that publish city guides to all of Metro Detroit's vibrant downtown areas. Model D covers Detroit, Hamtramck and Highland Park. Metromode covers the suburbs outside of Detroit, such as Royal Oak, Ferndale and Ann Arbor. Both publications use solution-based journalism, meaning they look at ideas and people that are making the community better. Think your local weekly newspaper with less of a muckracking tone. The city guides will give you a pretty good introduction to an area. They'll describe its attributes and downfalls but focus more on the attributes. Here are some links to the guides for the cities you're talking about, plus a few more cities you might be interested in. Check out both the moving and investing guides (stories), which have links at the bottom or upper right side of each page. Hamtramck http://www.modeldmedia.com/nei ghborhoods/Hamtramck.aspx Royal Oak http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/royaloak/default.aspx Ferndale http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/ferndale/default.aspx Birmingham http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/birmingham/default.aspx Downtown Detroit http://www.modeldmedia.com/nei ghborhoods/downtown.aspx Midtown Detroit http://www.modeldmedia.com/nei ghborhoods/Midtown.aspx Ann Arbor http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/annarbor/default.aspx Ypsilanti http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/ypsilanti/default.aspx Wyandotte http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/wyandotte/default.aspx Mt. Clemens http://metromodemedia.com/citi es/mtclemens/default.aspx My personal opinion is you can't go wrong with either one. Hamtramck is more Bohemian and working class. However, it's also more of a traditional city with high density and everything within easy walking distance. It is also one of the most diverse cities in Michigan. There is crime but nothing to be paranoid about as long as you use some common sense. Royal Oak is also vibrant, walkable, but is more upper-income yuppie. Things are more expensive there but you're more likely to find common big city-centric brand name staples, such as Starbucks. Royal Oak also has arguably the best nightlife scene in Metro Detroit. There is also crime and probably less than Hamtramck but nothing to get worked up about. BTW, welcome to the forum. Best of luck in your search and let us know where you land. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 487 Registered: 02-2007 |
jf - obvious questions: what sort of neighborhood/community are you in now, and how happy are you with that? | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2985 Registered: 11-2003 |
Great post Mr Hemingway! | ||
Lo_to_d Member Username: Lo_to_d Post Number: 23 Registered: 07-2007 |
Most people in Metro Detroit are dumb, so I wouldn't take any of their opinions. Check it out for yourself. Good Luck. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2986 Registered: 11-2003 |
Evidently you are trying to prove the worthiness of your post, with your post Lo_to_d | ||
Lo_to_d Member Username: Lo_to_d Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2007 |
BTW... I maybe dumb too, but I vote for Hamtramck. Unless you really value homogeneity, then choose Royal Oak. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4056 Registered: 02-2005 |
Jfnj, welcome! I'm guessing your moving because of employment, but I hope you find a spot where you can be truly happy and develop a love of this place. This all depends on whether you want to rent or buy, how close you want to be to Detroit, whether you'd like to minimize use of your car, etc. Hamtramck is, as you could see from a map, centrally located within the city, and not far from downtown/midtown. It is diverse and pretty vibrant. Retail establishments and food are within walking range. The density is similar to alot of NJ towns and the rent is pretty cheap. You'd have to canvass this forum to learn more about its crime. I'm really surprised that E_Hemingway said Royal Oak has the best nightlife in the area. I suppose if we exclude in Ann Arbor from the "area," and conclude that Detroit's nightlife is great but too spread out, then it wins, but all the truly cool places are in Detroit. Ann Arbor is lively; mainstreet is upscale, campus is, well, a collegetown. Honestly, A2 is too expensive, and is too far from Detroit to get by without commuter rail. It's a great place to visit though! Everyone and their brother will have something to say about Grosse Pointe if you bring it up, probably concluding that its snobby etc. But some great houses and townhouses are for sale at very low prices now. It doesn't have nightlife, but is 10 minutes from downtown, and still has restaurants, bars, and retail within its confines. Western GP Park, a dense rental flat district also resembling a few towns in your part of the country, might work. I think Ferndale is cool, too. You'd be right on the Woodward corridor and 15 minutes from downtown. The choice is yours. Research, research, research. Do not neglect the City itself. If you want advice for good apartments and lofts etc. in safe areas, ask the forumers here. Keep us updated. | ||
Jonesy Member Username: Jonesy Post Number: 405 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jfnj, what is your price range and how much space do you need? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5624 Registered: 11-2003 |
E-hemingway, excellent post but come now, Ann Arbor is NOT a Detroit suburb. As a point of fact, it's an hour from Michigan! jjaba likes the rental idea. Rent for a year if you have to, that way you really get to know the place better. Who knows, maybe the job and climate, the living arrangements, won't match New Jersey. Why get stuck with a house? jjaba likes the idea of a second floor flat in Hamtramck, with a garage or a sidedrive for your ride. Living on the second floor affords some addl. safety, although it can be hotter than a high school cheerleader in summer. Hamtramck's mix of the American stewpot cultures is something to experience on a daily basis. 10,000 Bangledeshis live there, mostly an entire Queens, NY neighborhood relocated ten yrs. ago. They came to Hamtramck for jobs and because Queens housing was too damn expensive. Add the Polish heritage and the newer Bosnians, the Mosques and the big Catholic churches, and you've got quite an ethic enclave. jjaba. | ||
Jazzstage Member Username: Jazzstage Post Number: 163 Registered: 08-2007 |
You didn't mention whether you have or are planning to have kids. If so, I would reconsider both places. The Ferndale and Royal Oak schools are less than exemplary. Hamtramck I would imagine is even worse. Both places are great fun for a couple without kids though. Have you considered downtown? The WSU area? | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 389 Registered: 06-2007 |
jfnj, Don't listen to any of the people saying bad things about Royal Oak. I lived in Royal Oak for years. It is one of the most desirable places to live in the Detroit area. It's got a variety of restaurants. There are probably about 20 small clothing boutiques. There is nightlife. It is easily one of the most, if not THE most, walkable community around. Most people I know that live there love it and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I live downtown Detroit, but when I am not hanging out close to my house, I usually head up 1-75 towards Royal Oak. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5782 Registered: 08-2004 |
Welcome Jfnj! (Too bad I can't say the same to some of the other newbies on this thread who posted ignorant anti-Detroit responses!) Royal Oak is a bit pricey, even during these tough times. And Ann Arbor, Birmingham and Troy are all very pricey. Perhaps you can find something to your liking in the lakefront community of St. Clair Shores. It has a housing stock that is similar to much of Royal Oak, but at a much more affordable price. And plus you're near Lake St. Clair, and just north of the 5 historic luxury Grosse Pointe communities, always a pleasure to drive thru... And the convenience of having I-94 & I-696 nearby means that you can go west, north or south to your workplace rather quickly (east is the lake). Plus it's only 20 minutes to downtown (same as for Royal Oak). | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4057 Registered: 02-2005 |
^Except for a few restaurants on the waterfront, there isn't any nightlife there. The waterfront is mostly poorly allocated, too. Few parks. And as well located as it is, it's much different than Royal Oak. It's best to see for yourself. I always give myself overviews of a particular landscape using local.live.com bird's eye views. You can learn some of what you may want to know by looking at various cities using this. Such views are NOT kind to parts of Detroit. | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 222 Registered: 05-2004 |
Where are you moving from in Jersey, Jfnj? I moved back here from Jersey in 2002. | ||
Jfnj Member Username: Jfnj Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello Everybody, Thanks very much for the welcome and informative responses. After reading your posts, I can definitely say that I would feel comfortable living Hamtramck, but also intend on checking out Ferndale and the neighborhoods in Detroit that you have recommended. Thanks for all the opinions- I think that we will really enjoy MI! We are relocating for business. I will be working out of home, but traveling throughout the state 4 days out of the week. So, the safety issue was big to me becuase I need to feel comfortable leaving my wife at home since there will be nights that I will home. Traveling the state will be a great way to get to know all the different regions! We are a young couple, in our early 20's. And we are looking for a town that offers diversity, entertainment, culture, and good food! Plus, a live music rock venue/bar and a close proximity to Joe Louis Arena would be great. We live in NE New Jersey right now, within 15 miles of Manhattan, in a great town called Montclair. It is an ideal town for us, and we are hoping to end up in a similar place. Having shops, etc within walking distance is a huge plus. We will definitely be renting for the first year or so, just to scope out the areas before we consider buying. When that happens, then we will address the school systems, taxes etc... I would like to rent a home with a basement and 2 or 3 beds. I have noticed that Hamtramck doesn't have the most spacious places for rent, so I will be sure to consider Detroit and Ferndale as well. Thanks again, and keep the info coming. Especially, the neighborhoods in the D that you would recommend. Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. Here's to wins for the Lions & Jets tomorrow! | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 953 Registered: 11-2003 |
JFNJ, welcome to the forum. Don't worry about the condolence contingent on this board. The Detroit area can be an exciting and fulfilling place to live. It certainly doesn't have the 24/7 urban excitement of Manhattan or London, and the city itself has more than its share of poverty and disinvestment, but it remains a major urban place with all the civic, cultural, entertainment and educational amenities that come with any big city in this country. Both Royal Oak and Hamtramck offer some loft-type living as well as single family homes. In Royal Oak, you will pay three times more per sq. ft. than Hamtramck, but for that you will get somewhat newer construction (most lofts are brand new), a bit less crime concern, and an average school system as opposed to one that is in the bottom quarter. Household incomes in Royal Oak are considerably higher than Hamtramck and this is reflected in their local retail and restaurant options. Hamtramck is melting pot living, Royal Oak is more quiet but still offers some urban and semi-walkable options. The best advice for folks new to the area: don't become a slave to a one-hour commute. Hopefully your new job isn't located in some far flung exurb. Good luck with your move. We hope you find happiness and that you stay. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5785 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK Mackinaw, put your anti-Macomb County bias aside for a moment... and explain exactly how the parks of Hamtramck, Ferndale and Royal Oak are superior to the 3 lakefront parks and many neighborhood parks/recreation center in SCS? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3242 Registered: 10-2003 |
What others have said is right on. I live in Royal Oak now, but have also lived in Hamtramck (which I thoroughly enjoyed) and on the far eastside of Detroit near the Grosse Pointe border. Royal Oak is not that pricey overall. It certainly isn't in the same stratosphere with Birmingham. It is walkable and offers a lot of cultural and entertainment options. More importantly, RO is a real community where neighbors are friendly and the schools are decent. Hamtramck is a bit scruffy but has its own charm. Hamtramck looks like many blue-collar areas of Detroit did before flight and blight came along: frame two-family flat buildings and small bungalows on narrow lots. It is eminently walkable and has a unique multi-ethnic, declasse atmosphere. It's fun to live there. And DDOT buses come right down Joseph Campau Ave. frequently each day. Other places I'd recommend: Grosse Pointe Park (a great value in renting, considering the quality of life there), Ferndale (with maybe even a higher hipster quotient than Royal Oak), Birmingham if you can afford it, and... the forgotten cool suburb, Berkley. All of those places are moderately well served by the suburban bus system, SMART. I would NOT live anywhere in Macomb County, but that's just me (I find the political/legal system there inherently corrupt, redneck, and backward). | ||
Billpdx Member Username: Billpdx Post Number: 56 Registered: 05-2006 |
I just went through this moving here last year. If I were in my 20s without kids, (which I am not, anymore) I would look at Hamtramck, West Village, and Midtown, Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge (do they have rentals there?) or Royal Oak. Maybe Berkley in a pinch. Woodward acts like a linear extension of Detroit, making those suburbs pretty good. Alternates: Grosse Pointe Park or East English village (detroit) - but it's a little sleepy over there... A night out in the neighborhood on Kerchival might get old pretty quick. I'm not quite sure why Saint Clair Shores is even in the conversation - That's kind of cracking me up. Are there urban neighborhoods over there I was unaware of? Plymouth has a cool downtown, but that whole Westside area is so far removed from town, Its like Detroit doesn't exist. Could be a plus for some, but not for me. Basically: if you move to the city, great. If you settle in the suburbs, stay close to Woodward. That's my 7 cents. |
