 
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:44 pm: |    |
im not sure about that.
I can assure you this paper was only posted to cause dialogue. I enjoy it. I thought it would be a good departure from the normal threads that populate this site.
I wasn't interested in a rant. this is something i actually turned in for a class. it was heavily researched and my points are fully supported. I was hoping to hear something from the other side besides nostalgia and emotional appeals.
am i the one calling people names. who called who tone deaf? |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:47 pm: | |
simple minded just means failing to attack with logic. disagreement is fine as long as it makes sense.
i was hoping someone would have empirical evidence or know something on the subject besides corporations bad, neighborhoods good.
knowing how to be personally critically on the things you hold dear ensures that you truly have the best interests in mind. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 365
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
Ok Folks, time to vote.
Does this person have a clear and concise writing style?
Yes / NO.
I vote NO. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 362
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
quote:im not sure about that.
Sort of like you're not sure about where to draw the line between beneficial economic development and flagrant abuse of eminent domain law?
I'm not nostalgic. I'm too damn young to be nostalgic. Read any of the "memories" threads, those are nostalgic. I simply believe in attractive, livable cities. If I wanted to live in a bland suburban area with a booming economy and plenty of chain drugstores, I'd move to Phoenix. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
absolutely i'm not sure where the line should be drawn. I believe that historic preservation laws work so I don't believe that there is a fear that we'll lose out on those truly spectaculor buildings.
But i def think economic development needs to take the drivers seat right now and i'm will to push it to the boundaries of where true historic preservation kicks in.
I'm not talking about metro detroit necessarily. I'm talking about the redevelopment around places that are already "urban centers" or things taht are so clearly desirable since we really need to diversify our economy. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:59 pm: | |
i've racked up enough good grades in my lifetime to know that I have a perfectly fine writing style. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 364
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 2:06 pm: | |
^Please tell me that post was a joke. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 2:10 pm: | |
not at all. this guy keeps attacking my writing style and clearly it's perfectly fine. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 365
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
You're putting far too much stock in your grades then. I've known all kinds of straight-A students who couldn't put together a coherent English sentence if their lives depended on it. I'm not specifically commenting on your writing style, but your justification for it is completely ridiculous. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 2:16 pm: | |
its not like i was an engineering major.
im in law school. how you write is how you get graded. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 2:36 pm: | |
Does writing style include lack of capitalization? That was a joke, by the way, as you are obviously very sensitive. Begs the question: simple-minded or thin-skinnned, which is worse?
I'm enjoying the eminent domain conversation, wouldn't mind returning to that. |
Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1508
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:04 pm: | |
Only, I can't speak to whether or not you'll have a lonely life, but your responses indicate that the likelihood of your success as a lawyer may not be as great as you might think it is. You say you want dialogue, yet you aren't able to accept that people have different ideas than you. You post your paper in it's entirety, but can't accept constructive criticism of your writing style (which is a very long way from perfectly fine). You initially asked for comments, without placing any limitations on them, and now you're criticizing those folks who offered criticism of your paper.
At this point in law school, you should have learned that a good lawyer will see all sides of a controversy, know the facts and law on both sides of that controversy, be able to argue the law and facts in support of his position to the benefit of his client, and be able to adopt to changing circumstances. One can't know everything and must also, essentially, know what you don't know. Your responses make me wonder if you've read and thought about all of the comments, and imply that you know all the answers, aren't willing to accept others' opinions or that there even is another side to this controversy. I don't see the point of further comment or attempted dialogue with you. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:13 pm: | |
fair enough. this thread is probably better off dead.
no one has said anything except corporations bad, neighborhoods good, so i guess that is all the other side has to say.
on the contrary, i'm perfectly open to other peoples ideas and have addressed peoples contentions in a point by point manner (which actually got people angry, interestingly enough).
the only criticism that i got on my writing style (which has now turned into being a very long way from perfectly fine) is that it wasn't clear, concise and apparenlty, pompous. i dont see how any of that is constructive. or correct, considering i have never heard a comment like that in my entire life until today.
if you can share something on why the conclusions drawn in the paper itself are wrong i would love to hear them. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 368
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:20 pm: | |
^A number of people on here did "share something." You dismissed every argument that refuted your ideas as "nostalgia and emotional appeals." I pointed out that that was an incorrect assessment of my motives and justifications. You responded with a barely-coherent post that had nothing to do with eminent domain, followed by a boast about your grades. As far as I'm concerned, you're unwilling to listen to criticism, and all I can do is hope you're never given the opportunity to implement these disastrous ideas in my city. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:27 pm: | |
its my city too buddy.
the only argument you've had is that you like the neighborhoods the way they are. I'm not boasting about my grades. just saying that its a ridiculous ad hominem attack to say something of the writing style.
I'd just like someone to address the four reasons i explained on why hathcock is bad law. no one has done this yet. while people have pointed out that there are also other things contributing to these problems no one has shown that what i've said is false.
(Message edited by onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme on November 12, 2007) |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 369
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:35 pm: | |
That was not my only argument, or my primary argument, though I maintain that a city with no urban fabric left isn't good for much.
As for my education, it is irrelevant to this thread. I prefer not to reveal personal details like that on an Internet forum, as people tend to use them to distract from the subject at hand with irrelevant and petty personal attacks. Take from that what you want. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 34
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:42 pm: | |
"You still need to have a rational reason for eminent domain (although it is a low threshhold). For example, you couldn't tear down a successful business for a more sucessful business."
Why not? Under the definitions you seem to be advocating, doesn't a more successful business have a higher public purpose than a business that is merely successful? Who decides what's the better public purpose and where to draw that line? Once you the standard so low, there is no standard. One of the many problems I had with Poletown is that it basically set no standard and there was no legal commitment from GM to deliver on its promises or penalty if it didn't.
You couldn't necessarily just target a business that was already sucessful just for the sake of it. It still needs to fit within an overall plan that makes sense. If for example the space desired was already 50 percent covered by successful businesses the plan obviously would be stopped
but if there were only 10 percent covered by successful business and you need to a whole space to create an integrated development model than it owuld be gone.
you have to trust the legislature to make that judgement. its a leap of faith, but you have to hope that you've voted in the right people. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 370
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:45 pm: | |
^Most of the "right people" stay the hell away from politics. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:49 pm: | |
"Also, I haven't read Blais' article, but stringing together the comments on disproportionate impact you included make no sense to me -- redevelopment will be concentrated on areas rightfully considered blighted, that will adversely impact poor and minorities, redevelopment should be spread to other areas. Sounds like he's recommending that areas that don't otherwise need to be revitalized should be redeveloped anyway to "share" the burden. Basing economic development on demographics instead of real need is poor planning and will likely fail. Following that approach will likely lead to no redevelopment. Poletown destroyed neighborhoods that were viable and cohesive, when others in the city were not. That worked real well."
It's not about focusing on the demographics to chose where to build, its about that by focusing on blight, you will end up disproportionately affect only the poor and minorities. by making everything open to change, and not just blight, you ARE taking everything objectively (Not focusing on deomographics) and everyone ends up affected, which leads to more and more reasonably public discourse.
under the current plan you have to focus on blight, not where the developmet is actually "needed".
As for style, I agree with Gnome. It's one thing to provide the law and the cites, but you just lay them there with little connecting, clarifying or explanatory language. As a result, the paper doesn't flow and it isn't easy to read. It's generally easy to find sources that support the point you want to make. It's not easy to put that info together in a manner that reads well, is cohesive in its approach, and sways the reader to your position. Your just doesn't do it for me. When I read the papers I wrote in law school 20+ years ago, I find some that meet all those criteria and I sometimes scratch my head and say "huh, what was I thinking?" I've taught law students who turned in similarly written work as yours. Given grade inflation, though, I'd expect a C.
ha. you guys really are a trip. the paper is far from perfect and at this point i'd rather just drop the writing style argument. I just want someone to address the issues present and you did in the first part of your post and I appreciate that. keep them coming!
(Message edited by onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme on November 13, 2007) |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
thats certainly a pessimisitc way of viewing the government.
I think people, and even people on this forum, could agree that the best policy is some balance of preservation and economic development. I think we can all agree that this is what we would want.
My frustration is that economic development has been taken off the table by the courts and by the people themselves when they voted for the new amendmet to our constitution in nov. 2006. It doesn't make any sense to take away this option.
make better safeguards, make it a heightened standard for rationality, but don't just take it away. |
Cheddar_bob
Member
Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 5:03 pm: | |
quote:its not like i was an engineering major.
im in law school. how you write is how you get graded.
So what kind of grades do they give for 5 errors in 3 sentences? Although I'm not going to read your paper, I hope you capitalized the first letter of each sentence in it. |
Deandub11
Member
Username: Deandub11
Post Number: 172
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 7:41 pm: | |
Ok lets change the question he asked. He doesnt care what you say about his writing style, coherence, or grammar. Personal attacks are also not helpful. What are your thoughts about eminent domain and how it is applied in our state as oppose to other states? What effect does the change regarding eminent domain in our state's constitution have on Detroit? Meanwhile, QUICKEN BABY. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3587
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 7:47 pm: | |
I tried to think of an intelligent response, Deandub.. But all that came to mind was QUICKEN BABY. |
Deandub11
Member
Username: Deandub11
Post Number: 173
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 8:15 pm: | |
I agree johnny. Who can think about anything else. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 941
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 11:06 pm: | |
A lot of posters on this thread are apparently displeased that OPWHTHM won't cave to their highly researched and thoroughly persuasive critiques of his paper. Geez, lighten up a bit everybody. Just because OPWHTHM disagrees with you doesn't make him stupid, or too rigid, or too defensive. He posted a paper on an interesting topic. So, why not just debate the topic and stop trying to prove that you're smarter than a law student.
As for the debate, I agree with Prof. Mogk. Detroit is worse off now that it is subject to the strictest eminent domain constitutional standard in the country. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
Got my grade back.
B |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2253
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
Are you bragging about a B? |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:38 am: | |
no. but it's substantially better than what people in this thread thought i deserved. hitting median at my school is not a given. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2835
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:43 am: | |
mandatory curve? |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
of course. considering i did all the research and wrote it in three days, i'm pretty happy with the outcome. |