 
Billpdx
Member
Username: Billpdx
Post Number: 59
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |    |
Good one, Iheartthed. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2885
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:37 pm: | |
lmao...I guess it's either all or nothing eh? either they're built 100% as reactionary measures or not at all as reactionary measures...
surely it couldn't be that transit systems are build as a response to existing transportation needs while being tailored towards future development strategies? no, no...that makes too much sense...
carry on |
Izzadore
Member
Username: Izzadore
Post Number: 71
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:20 pm: | |
With regard to point one that Eboyer mentioned.
Are the 'wheels in motion' for such a project (has the Mayor started talking with Architects?) Wouldn't the planning phase alone of a project like this take 2-3 years with environmental studies and the like? Just curious. |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
Izzadore, there are well-connected people working full-time daily on a transit system.
Persuasive, powerful business leaders in our area are also heavily involved. The wheels are in motion, however they're deliberately keeping it out of the spotlight. |
Detroitpharmstudent
Member
Username: Detroitpharmstudent
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
Izzadore, see this site: http://www.dtogs.com/main.html
actually i don't know for sure if this "announcement" and the study are related, but I sure hope they are. The dtogs looks great, and I sure hope all their work has something to do with this. |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 265
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Eboyer forgive me if Im prying but what is your connection to this project? How are you getting such information? |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 396
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:11 pm: | |
Mdoyle, I could have told you the same thing because I attended one of their public meetings and met some of the people behind the study. |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 139
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:16 pm: | |
Can someone please explain to me the benefit of a rail system between Ann Arbor and Detroit? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2891
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:22 pm: | |
^people who fly into metro airport to go to either Detroit or AA would be able to use train to get from the airport to where they're going...
just as anyone in downtown Detroit and in AA would have access to the airport w/o having to own/rent a car |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 266
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:33 pm: | |
Kid_dynamite- thank you. I must have missed that part of the thread. I knew there was a meeting I didnt know that there was chatting going o after with officials. I was wondering if Eboyer has a more in depth scoop that would provide us with periodic updates. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 390
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:38 pm: | |
Renfirst,
Here are some benefits.
1. Connect the regions largest city (Detroit) and its fastest growing technology corridor (Ann Arbor) to each other via an alternative means of travel besides a car.
2. Connect both of these area to an international airport with hundreds of flights flying in and out every day to all over the world. This will help spur business growth along that rail corridor.
3. Increase convention business. Many conventions pass on Detroit because out of town visitors flying in for conventions are forced to rent cars. Having a means of transportation besides a pricey cab right that can get people from the airport to downtown Detroit and back will make places like Cobo more attractive to convention booking managers.
4. Helps reduce congestion along that corridor. Considering that we are a region that isn't famous for carpooling, for every person who uses that train means just about one car not adding to congestion along the I-94 corridor.
This reduced traffic also makes roads safer and helps the environment. Less traffic means less chances for accidents and also reduced fuel emissions and consumption (which if mass transit were utilized on a larger scale would effect overall fuel prices).
6. Economic development. Studies vary, but some have stated as high as for ever $1 invested in mass transit, $10 of private business development occurs along that transit corridor. That's a pretty good return on investment. |
Jonnyfive
Member
Username: Jonnyfive
Post Number: 77
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
"Good luck on getting the 600 police officers. As it is, it'll be tough finding 600+ folks with a "clean slate". And, as Thejesus mentioned above, it's important that the police department puts in the time and money to train them properly. "
I think there is a whole slew of people that would be interested in doing actual police work rather than writing speeding tickets in the suburbs. |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:43 pm: | |
quote:"Can someone please explain to me the benefit of a rail system between Ann Arbor and Detroit?"
It's all about options. Metro Detroit is the rare major city in America that voluntarily chains itself to only automotive transportation options. Most other major cities incorporate an extensive network of transportation options that include highways, expressways, buses, light rail, commuter rail and bike/pedestrian paths. In Michigan we specialize in expressways, neglect bus systems, dabble in pedestrian paths and pay lip service to rail. This is a significant reason behind our lagging economy and brain drain. Providing a variety of effective transit options isn't the silver bullet to all of our woes, but it's a major piece of the puzzle. One that would provide immediate and long term benefits.
The Detroit/Ann Arbor commuter rail line is necessary because it would widen our options while connecting a large number of major institutions and significant communities. That, along with a light rail line along Woodward, would be the most effective first steps. They would serve millions of people and spark billions of dollars in investment.
One more point, you can't look at these lines and say who is going to travel from one extreme end of it to the other. For example, who is going to travel between Ann Arbor and Detroit on the commuter rail line or who is going to travel from Pontiac to downtown Detroit on a light rail line? Those types of trips rarely happen. Most of the travel takes place between a few nodes on those systems, such as people traveling between Ann Arbor and Metro Airport on the commuter rail line or between 14 Mile Road and downtown Pontiac on the Woodward light rail line. |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 49
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:58 pm: | |
MDoyle, I merely attended an event where this info was shared. However, I may be able to give periodic updates in the future based on some connections I have.
I'll never give proprietary info though. I definitely don't want to mess with that! |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4076
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 3:27 pm: | |
Ann Arbor and Detroit just should be connected by rail, with a stop at metro airport. It's an ideal setup. The exchange between those two cities is already great, and you can enable a lot more people by giving them additional transportation options. Extending the rail from the airport to Ann Arbor will increase the overall use of the line a ton. I think it will do very well shuttling business travelers to Dearborn and downtown, but when you throw in the opportunity to go from the central A2 rail station (well-located with plenty of parking and room to create more) to the airport, you will get a lot more travelers. I think people, and tons of UM students, will jump on that opportunity over a costly cab ride.
---
In my mind, Kilpatrick is hitting on all the important points that constitute the foundations of a world-class city and thus region. Few big city mayors are covering as much ground as he is, and he has all the sensibilities of a big city mayor who knows his economics. And for those of you that say he's only concerned for the neighborhoods inasmuch as economic revival will create a lagging trickle down (with higher long-term revenues and an eventual uptick in city services), I admit that he's done that, but it's not entirely wrong. On the other hand, there is the talk of increasing the police presence, and there has been a lot of infrastructure (esp. streets) improvement across the city considering the budget, and it's not as if there haven't been ambitious infill projects getting underway in several neighborhoods.
If you can get yourself past the sensationalized accusations you see on the 6 o'clock news, you're looking at a good mayor. |
Popcanman55
Member
Username: Popcanman55
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 3:52 pm: | |
First they have to hire the 200 officers they said they were going to hire last year. The last class had 30 officers and the class now has only 15 officers in it.
Hiring 600 is a dream I hope it comes true but I have had my application for almost a year and am only 1/4 through the process. They said there might be a class of 30 in Jan.
My father has 33yrs and counting on the job in Detroit. He said with the new 20 and out in the DPOA contract 1/2 the department only has 10-11 years on the job. Then 1/2 of them have no idea what they are doing and never get off their cell phones. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 436
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:00 pm: | |
I know it has probably been discussed in the transit threads, but why is Kwame not pushing for the rail termination of the AA-Detroit line behind the Joe as he mentioned or through the Dequnrde cut like the old commuter line used (ending near the Ren Cen). |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 414
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:03 pm: | |
Because its an excuse to have a light rail line started connecting New Center and Downtown..... |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1422
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:15 pm: | |
quote:"Because its an excuse to have a light rail line started connecting New Center and Downtown....."
That and it would be much more expensive to extend the Detroit/Ann Arbor line to downtown and then build it up the Dequindre cut. Doing that would require a huge/complicated/expensive rail construction project. As imminent as this seems, it's still in a fragile stage and could easily fall apart. Using existing tracks that are already used for passenger service is much cheaper and much easier to get a demonstration line up and working, no easy feat in itself. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 437
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
Understanding the logic behind the New Center connection and why the station will be there, is it feasible to think that a downtown station/rail connection could come about in the future? |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
Sure, but in the distant future. |
Granmontrules
Member
Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 265
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 5:20 pm: | |
RESIDENCY NOW!
I don't know a single real Detroiter (and that is someone who actually lives in a Detroit zip code) who doesn't want residency for city employees esp. cops and fire! Go mayor go! He gets this reinstated it will be a landslide into re-election. |
Thegryphon
Member
Username: Thegryphon
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 6:07 pm: | |
Firstly, the Dequindre Cut is being transformed into a ped walkthru connecting Eastern Market to the Riverwalk(i.e. it cannot be used for the rail). The Riverfront Conservancy is in charge of the transformation. Regarding the connection of a rail btwn. New Center and 8-Mile, what the city should do is implement a Renaissance zone or NEZ tax abatement area up Woodward from the New Center to 8-Mile. With anchors to the North of the State Fair Grounds and the upcoming Gateway Mall and with the New Center, WSU, and the Cultural Center to the South, a rail is highly feasible. Maybe with the spurred growth up the 5 miles of Woodward btwn. New Center & 8-Mile (due to the rail system and the tax zone) the Cruise would go all the way down to the River. Economic growth anyone? |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 6:30 pm: | |
Is there a way to provide a bonus or two-tier pay scale for cops living in the city vs. the suburbs? It seems that would be the only way to get the union on board. They would have to agree to provide some sort of proof of their principle residence. i.e. suspension, reimburse bonus pay with penalties, if proven otherwise. Popcan, El-Jimbo, I'd be interested to hear your father's thoughts as well as yours. Also, how does Detroit cops' pay compare to the surrounding suburbs? |
Cmubryan
Member
Username: Cmubryan
Post Number: 485
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:57 pm: | |
Eboyer, I was there too. I was the young guy in the back who spoke for a little bit. Where were you? |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:23 am: | |
Connecting downtown to New Center would be tremendous. As mentioned earlier, you then can get to the commuter rail, and then to all the places you would be likely to want to go to on a Woodward line, except the Zoo. You could even have a flag stop on the back side of the Fairgrounds when there are events at the Fairgrounds. The commuter rail is in a much better location in Royal Oak than Woodward would be, although it is worse in Ferndale and Birmingham. I can't figure out where you could put a Ferndale station if you were going to have parking--maybe there is someplace in that yard east of Hilton.
Once such a line was actually running, and hopefully successful, people could look at extending it. I disagree with the idea that a 30 mile trolley line is too long--people don't have to ride it the whole way--but I can't see that happening for a long, long time. Fortunately the commuter rail will still be available for people who need to get to/from Pontiac. I strongly believe that expanding a system that exists is easier getting the system started in the first place, so just tying downtown to New Center line will be difficult to get done. But if it can be done, it will provide a lot of added value as a way to get more value out of the underutilized commuter rail line. |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 141
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:27 am: | |
I guess when I envisioned a rail system I always envisioned the suburbs of Oakland and Macomb, not Washtenaw... It kind of pisses me off that a guy in Belleville will have access to the rail system and people in Southfield, etc. won't... |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1425
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:35 am: | |
You can't just build the whole thing at once. These things have to happen in phases. The truth of the matter is that the Detroit/Ann Arbor commuter rail line and a Woodward light rail line make the most sense to build first. Don't fret, though. If a Woodward light rail is built and effectively run, expanding another line along 8 Mile would be one of the next options, connecting a bunch of the tri-county communities.
The key is patience. This is a very tricky thing to pull off and the only way to do it is with baby steps, like the Detroit/Ann Arbor line. Once one or two of these lines are up and running smoothly, the rest of the metro area will start clamoring for their part and then you'll see suburbs like Southfield connected. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 704
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:37 am: | |
"Now onto the good stuff. Here are a few things he mentioned..."
1. Light rail on Woodward
- Where will this money come from? sounds nice though
2. New DPS superintendent
- seems good so far,
3. Kwame loves 3 pm every day, which is when the City's cut of the Casino profits is deposited in their account. - nuff said.
4. THIS IS THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT. He is going to hire 600 new cops for the city, which will be announced very soon. He wants more cops walking the beat, and he wants the residency rule reinstalled. He thinks the police union needs to be more receptive to changes.
- I want to play center field for the Tigers! |
Cmubryan
Member
Username: Cmubryan
Post Number: 486
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:44 am: | |
Belleville is still in Wayne County. |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 843
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 1:02 am: | |
quote:Firstly, the Dequindre Cut is being transformed into a ped walkthru connecting Eastern Market to the Riverwalk(i.e. it cannot be used for the rail).
from http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/dequindre.aspx
"The other half will be left in natural grasses and reserved for potential future rail transit. The possibility still exists, [Jim] Sutherland [of the Downtown Detroit Partnership, who oversees the project] says, that in the future a light rail line could be developed in the cut."
Granted, this is a two year old article, but i have heard nothing regarding an abandonment of that plan, so I fully expect that option remains a possibility. |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 1:22 am: | |
But that still sounds like you couldn't extend the commuter train that way--that is heavy rail, not light. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 391
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
401Don,
My dad worked very actively with the firefighters union throughout the late 80s and the early 90s. To be honest he was just part of that generation who grew up in the 40s and 50s when Detroit was at its peak and then watched it start falling apart when he reached his 20s in the 60s. We stayed in the city until 1982, but at that point, he was done. He wanted out of the city. Both him and my mom both felt that at the time, it just wasn't the place to raise a family if you had the means to move elsewhere.
He shared the rent on an apartment on the west side with another firefighter who was just "visiting" his family in the suburbs. It was an added expense to pay rent and utilities on a second "home" when my parents were already paying a mortgage and utilities on their home in the suburbs. It was a happy day for them when residency ended and they were finally able to end the lease on the apartment.
I'm not 100% sure what my opinion is on residency is. On one hand I do understand the concept that city workers will take more pride in their work and care more if they live in the same neighborhoods that they work in. On paper, that sounds great. However, while I can't speak for the Police, but no matter where they live, the overwhelming majority of firefighters give 100% when they are on the job. They have to. Lives are at stake including their own. My dad has had a lot of issues with the city over the years and he pretty much gave up hope on it a long time ago, but when he was on the job none of that mattered because when people's lives, homes, and property were on the line he didn't have time to worry about any of that other stuff.
My main problem with residency is the general un-Democratic nature of the idea. Essentially you are denying these people the right to make their own choice on where they choose to live. I don't think that is right. People have the right to make decisions in the best interest of their family.
Lastly, in the end, residency is not the answer to the city's problems. In the end, blackmailing people into living in the city by threatening to take away their jobs will only breed animosity and contempt for the city among the very people who are supposed to keep it safe. That's a recipe for disaster in my book. |
Rob_in_warren
Member
Username: Rob_in_warren
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:06 am: | |
I also agree that Detroit shouldn't fight for a strict residency policy. Detroit needs the most qualified and upstanding officers available.
But, if one Detroiter and one suburban apply, and their qualifications are equal, I'd give preference to the city resident. Having police live in your neighborhood is invaluable as a deterrent.
I grew up next to a cop in Warren. It was nice to know that he was next door in case of a problem. It also sucked that I couldn't cause trouble because he'd come over and break up what ever party or mischief was going on. In both cases, he was good for the neighborhood. He recently moved out to East China. The new neighbors at that house have kids that party and rabble-rouse. |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 50
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
Bryan, I was the fella wearing the bright pink shirt. The only other "young" attendant besides you and your friend. |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 653
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
you're also missing something else good about connecting Detroit and Ann Arbor... as one of the "young people who's friends are all moving" the only two cities in ALL of Michigan that are worth a damn in my book are Detroit and Ann Arbor... the two most attractive places in a state connected by fast/cheap/convenient rail!? makes perfect sense... |
Izzadore
Member
Username: Izzadore
Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
Now if there could only be a 'strict' residency requirement with regard to the City Counsel. Then we'd be cooking with gas... |
Lifeinmontage
Member
Username: Lifeinmontage
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:02 pm: | |
I have a couple of questions for those who attended the meeting. I have heard about a Woodward corridor and Michigan corridor line from other sources, but this is the first time I'm hearing about a Gratiot line (see the DTOGS Three Alignments Map).
Woodward (centrally located) and Michigan/94 (DTW, A2) make since as the two most important lines to explore first. However, if they are going to also explore transit options for other spokes on the map (like Gratiot), why not include Grand River and W Jefferson in the study? I can understand excluding E Jefferson because of the close proximity to Gratiot. Did they address this at all in the meeting?
*Redux: I see under other docs on the DTOGS site that they have future plans for Grand River and 8 Mile, but still nothing heading south. Maybe because the city limits are closer to downtown in that direction than in any other? Still, that leaves everyone downriver SOL.
(Message edited by lifeinmontage on November 30, 2007) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 929
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:00 am: | |
Fort St/Dixie Highway would be the perfect route headed south, but for what purpose? there's nothing down there but polluted corn fields and empty factories. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 930
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:02 am: | |
Gratiot would be a good route and probably would compliment all the shopping/recreation districts and DET if it ever was to offer service again. |
Cmubryan
Member
Username: Cmubryan
Post Number: 488
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:45 am: | |
E, cool how were you related to the group? Do you live in the D? |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 925
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:01 am: | |
Regarding the question about Gratiot: bear in mind that Gratiot has much more frequent transit service, from both DDOT and SMART, than Michigan Avenue.
Regarding Lifeinmontage's other questions, the boundaries of the DTOGS study are determined by DDOT's service area, and have nothing to do with any reasonable attempt to serve the region. Grand River and East Jefferson were included in the study (West Jefferson has no bus transit at all, which makes it nearly impossible to study for a capital investment project), but were eliminated from "phase I". |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
My Grandfather was covering it for the Jewish News. My uncle was the fellow you spoke to outside afterwards.
I don't live in Detroit, but I spend a lot of time there. I work in Livonia so living in Detroit would be kinda tough. |
Lifeinmontage
Member
Username: Lifeinmontage
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:02 pm: | |
"I work in Livonia so living in Detroit would be kinda tough."
Just ask the Rock Financial employees how they're going to do it, then do the reverse. |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:36 pm: | |
I am a team member at Quicken Loans.
You think everyone at the company works and/or lives in Livonia?
No point in me paying city taxes and working in the suburbs. |
Lifeinmontage
Member
Username: Lifeinmontage
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 8:53 pm: | |
No, but it would be a reasonable assumption that a large portion, if not a majority, do live somewhere out that way in the suburbs. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 961
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:28 pm: | |
They have offices in Troy and Farmington Hills, so how can you assume that? Do you have a radar tracking these workers? It would be like saying majority of the workers at Compuware live somewhere in the city.
(Message edited by DetroitRise on December 01, 2007) |
Lifeinmontage
Member
Username: Lifeinmontage
Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:39 pm: | |
I respectfully concede; forget the half-joking, tangential comment I made.
Sometimes I think some people just go looking for fights on here. |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 462
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:45 pm: | |
uh, seriously, most people who work at Quicken live in the suburbs, and out of those people, I'm sure most of them live in OC. |
Karl_jr
Member
Username: Karl_jr
Post Number: 174
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:28 am: | |
"Chief Financial Officer/Finance Director"
...........also transit is probably right. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3944
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
They have announced the expansion of Riverwalk to the Bridge. This probably isn't the announcement, because we knew this would happen. But it's all over the news this morning. |
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