 
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 118
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:52 pm: |    |
First of all, the GOP only stripped half of their delegates, as compared to Democrats stripping ALL of theirs. And second of all, the Republican candidates haven't all pledged not to campaign here, as the Democrats have! If someone refuses to campaign in my state, why should I vote for them? They're basically telling us they don't care about our votes. |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 612
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
Half is not ALL. And as loyal as Michigan is to the Democrats, the citizens don't deserve to be punished for a decision that we had no say over. How dare they disenfranchise me and other Michigan Dems who have sent $$$ not just to our candidates, but to the national party and congressional committee to help with the '06 victory?
Michigan being reliably blue is as silly as blacks being reliably Democrat! If these politicians actually had to work for our votes, maybe we'd see some changes around this state!
I'm tired of supporting people who do nothing but tell me and mine to kiss their a**es. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 422
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
quote:If someone refuses to campaign in my state, why should I vote for them? Um, so you don't end up with another incompetent idiot in the White House, perhaps?
(Message edited by bearinabox on December 02, 2007) |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 613
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:54 pm: | |
Atwater, I didn't see your post -- I agree with everything you've said. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 83
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 4:06 pm: | |
quote:He offended the auto industry months ago, and people here have long memories. We *will* go red if he's the Dem's choice.
You mean like in 2000 when the Democrats nominated Mr. Global Warming Al Gore? Climate change isn't a new cause for Gore. He was advocating policies that would be considered anti-Big 3 (though pro, you know, oxygen, clean water, and trees) 20 years ago with the publication of The Earth In the Balance.
quote:If Romney is the Republican nominee, he can definitely count on Michigan... I mean, a lot of older black Detroiters have fond memories of his dad.
As well they should. George Romney was one of the most progressive politicians of either party on the issue of race. The segregationist policies of his faith offended him deeply and he worked hard to change them and improve race relations in the greater society. Mitt had an opportunity to be equally as heroic on the issue of gay rights but he's chosen to pander to 700 Club viewers on that issue. Then again with the level of homophobia in Detroit's black churches, bashing gays may serve Romney well among Michigan's black voters.
quote:Same with Giuliani (as many, many Michiganders have a fantasy of Rudy doing with Detroit what he did with NYC).
I lived in a post-Giulinai NYC. NYC's turnaround had more to do with the strong economy (especially in the financial sector) as it did Giulinai. He deserves credit for implementing broken window but the flip side of that is Caribbean immigrants having plungers shoved up their asses by an out-of-control NYPD and a mobbed-up Police Commissioner.
(Message edited by Miesfan on December 02, 2007) |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2635
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 6:01 pm: | |
quote:Moral of the story when this state goes Republican: Don't tell the voters of Michigan to bow down to Washington and expect our support in the Election.
It wasn't just the folks in Washington, DC. The rules were made at the Democratic National Convention in 2004. Michigan got to vote for these rules, just like people in the other 49 states.
Voting in favor of the rules one day and breaking them the next is pure stupidity. Expecting the rest of the country to ignore you violating the rules that you voted for is both stupid and arrogant.
quote:The Dem party is of the opinion that we are here to service their needs.
The DNC is using rules that Michigan's delegation voted for at the last convention. How in the world is that us servicing their needs?
quote:Vote Republican...and vote often!
Right. Because the Bush Administration has done such great job protecting Michigan's interests.
quote:And as loyal as Michigan is to the Democrats, the citizens don't deserve to be punished for a decision that we had no say over.
Michigan's citizens had no say over these decisions???
That's funny. Who was it that elected the Michigan Legislature? Who elected U.S. Sen. Carl Levin?
I'll give you a hint: it wasn't the people of Nebraska.
Once again, I remind people: If you don't want to be penalized, don't break the rules.
(Message edited by fnemecek on December 02, 2007) |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 416
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 6:40 pm: | |
Couple of weeks back on Tim Skubick's "Inside Michigan Politics" one of his guests mentioned that these January primaries will cost Michigan $10 million dollars to stage.
What a miserable waste of money. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3128
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 7:09 pm: | |
And guess who gets access, and is the only group to get access, to the data on who voted?
(Message edited by MCP-001 on December 02, 2007) |
Titancub
Member
Username: Titancub
Post Number: 98
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 7:15 pm: | |
Michigan voters' representation gets 'blown away'.
Thanks Dem party for your wise leadership and leading us into further irrelevance. How damn frustrating with the current state we are in that the political leaders would WILLFULLY and PURPOSELY do this to us. |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 615
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:03 pm: | |
Who broke the rules? I don't recall voting for Debbie Dingell. Did I miss something?
And Mies, black Christians in Detroit don't corner the market on homophobia by a long shot. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:07 pm: | |
Never said they did. Only that Romney's homophobic positions would help him with the black church crowd. The right reverend Bishop Ellis don't take kindly to queers. Praise Jesus!
http://www.operationrebirth.com/fmasupporters.html
(Message edited by Miesfan on December 02, 2007) |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 617
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
LOL, Mies! Sigh... just about the best thing that could happen for Detroit is to be gay-friendly. Maybe we'd gentrify and turnaround faster. But hey, what do I know?
Yes, Michigan very well might be red a year from now. Insane considering our current economy, but there you have it. Neither party gives a damn about us, so I suppose it's a choice between kissing the Republican's a**es or licking the Democrat's boots. Or vice versa. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 3302
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:17 pm: | |
I truly wish there was a clear way on the ballot to indicate dissatisfaction with ALL candidates... the proverbial/mythical "None of the Above" box.
As a somewhat more centrist Democrat, the only candidates I feel comfortable with are Biden and Richardson. The national party seems hell-bent on nominating Hillary, whom I dislike intensely.
It looks like I may grudgingly vote for Giuliani solely based on his leadership qualities, not on his stance on the issues. |
Jenniferl
Member
Username: Jenniferl
Post Number: 415
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:27 pm: | |
I propose that we Michiganders secede from the Union and set up shop as a Third World country. |
Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice
Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:39 pm: | |
I can tell you one thing, Giuliani will not be the republican candidate. He may be pretending to be a neocon now but most of his party sees through that. Same with Romney, who enacted universal health care in Mass.
I would love to see a Obama/ Edwards ticket or Edwards/ Obama. either way, if the Republicans put up Huckabee they will lose, just because no one wants a president named Huckabee.
Hillary seems to be the opposite of Bush on issues but the same type of person. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 7900
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:21 am: | |
Oops, Jenny goofed again. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 6:29 am: | |
"Once again, I remind people: If you don't want to be penalized, don't break the rules"
What State do you live in Fnemecek?
If politicians want our support, tell them to come here and ask for it instead of hiding elsewhere.
All of the Dem candidates for President have promised not to campaign in MIchigan ... and you are chiding us?
Go move to DC |
Rob_in_warren
Member
Username: Rob_in_warren
Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:43 am: | |
We broke the rules. We were dumb for doing it, and now our voice in selecting the next democratic nominee is gone. That equals a vote for Hillary Clinton, whose claim to fame is waffling, and the job her husband did while leading this country through the greatest economic/technological boom in world history. (I could've run the country in the mid/late 90's.)
The key issues will remain abortion and gay unions. (What a joke. The day that the federal government stops helping us with these issues the better off we will all be) Meanwhile, manufacturing in the US will continue to erode. Hillary (the default choice) won't say that NAFTA and free trade agreements are only beneficial to US corporations, and not our people. She won't get elected, and a Republican, bought and paid for by Corporations will continue our failed trade policies, erode our economic base (the middle class), and further exacerbate all of our social/socioeconomic problems.
Thank you to all involved in taking my vote away. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:00 am: | |
quote:Oops, Jenny goofed again.
I rarely agree with CCbatson but on this point I'm in complete agreement. I really wonder why I left a New York just as Eliot Spitzer was going to take over as Governor to come to a state governed by this clown.
What's the story with Michigan Democrats? On one hand the state party has produces great leaders like Carl Levin and David Bonior, leaders who live up the legacies of Frank Murphy, Soapy Williams, and Martha Griffiths and on the other Michigan Democrats elect the likes of Granholm and the banking industry's best friend Debbie Stabenow. Thanks for that bankruptcy reform Deb. Great legislation. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2636
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:50 am: | |
quote:Who broke the rules? I don't recall voting for Debbie Dingell. Did I miss something?
Debbie Dingell was only one of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention. All of them voted for the rules that we as a state are now violating.
More importantly, the Michigan Legislature and Governor Granholm knew that breaking the rules would result in us loosing our delegates and they did it anyway with U.S. Sen. Carl Levin encouraging them every step of the way - violating the very resolution that he co-sponsored at the Convention.
quote:Neither party gives a damn about us, so I suppose it's a choice between kissing the Republican's a**es or licking the Democrat's boots.
Right. Poor us. We broke the rules and are being punished.
No one cares about Michigan. That is why it took a federal lawsuit and demands from a dozen states to get any changes in CAFE standards - and why even then the changes were ones supported by Chrysler, Ford and GM.
quote:What State do you live in Fnemecek?
Michigan. Unlike some folks around here who live in the State of Denial.
quote:If politicians want our support, tell them to come here and ask for it instead of hiding elsewhere.
All of the Dem candidates for President have promised not to campaign in Michigan ... and you are chiding us?
Look at it from their perspective: why would they bother campaigning in a place where people can't vote for them?
quote:Go move to DC
Why?
As for a residence, I don't think you're right for Michigan yourself. You might want to consider San Quentin, California. You'll find a lot more people there who are willing to feel sorry for you when you get punished for breaking breaking the rules.
quote:Oops, Jenny goofed again.
Yes, she did. Let's not forget, though, that she had a lot of help.
The Michigan Legislature voted to break the rules. U.S. Sen. Carl Levin encouraged them to do it. All of them have a share of the blame. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:58 am: | |
So Fnemecek,
Since none of the Democrats will campaign in Michigan, are you voting for Romney or McCain? |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:02 am: | |
Fnemecek
Perhaps you'd like to join the Michiganders who will be out cheering on the Republican candidates that care enough about our state to come and listen to our concerns?
There will be quite a few here in the next 30 days while your Rule Enforcing Nazis of the democratic party are courting the votes of other states that they really care about.
The fact that our primary was so late in the election cycle that it meant nothing to the Dems in the first place is probably irrelevant to you.
Oh to be a lemming... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5844
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
Are ALL democratic and republican candidates going to be on their respective Michigan ballots?
Granted many have opted out of campaigning here, but will they still be on the ballot?
Also, will this effectively mean that no Michigan bigwhigs (Granholm, Levin, Dingell) will be at the convention? Or will they just be denied a voting opportunity. I thought that only delegates were allowed on the convention floor? |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1135
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:29 am: | |
No.
Bizarrely, I believe Hillary and a couple of the lower level slackers will be on the ballot for the dems...Hillary of course has vowed not to campaign in Michigan because...she doesn't need to. She can flip us the bird for the primary, win it, do a flip flop pretending that she loves and cares deeply for the good people of Michigan (growing up in Chicago, she was really a Tigers fan, when they weren't playing the Yankees who was really her team...being from Chicago and all).
All Republicans will of course be on the ballot and all the Republican candidates will be here campaigning.
The national dem party has been stiff arming our "big wigs" for a while...note Pelossie's bizarre fuel economy requirements that are putting more Michigan employees out of work. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5848
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:48 am: | |
Irish_mafia... you make it sound like you are "indignant" with the Democrats for what they're doing... but based on your bashing of Democrats and praise for the Republicans, your party loyalty is hardly in doubt...  |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
Gistok,
Well I am indignant with the Dem leadership. Their total disdain for Michigan, our businesses and even our Dem representatives is evidenced on a daily basis. They live in a fantasy land where all must bow down to them and those that do not, shall pay!
and yes, I am a bleeding conservative... their behavior simply reinforces my beliefs.
ah, but there was a time, a long time ago, when everyone, including the family dog, were registered dems in my house.
Its a curable disease!
|
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2638
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:59 am: | |
quote:Perhaps you'd like to join the Michiganders who will be out cheering on the Republican candidates that care enough about our state to come and listen to our concerns?
Cheer them on? I'd be more interested in asking why we're spending trillions of dollars for the war in Iraq and why the Bush Administration has been so reluctant to deal with violations of existing trade treaties.
quote:There will be quite a few here in the next 30 days while your Rule Enforcing Nazis of the democratic party are courting the votes of other states that they really care about.
Rule Enforcing Nazis??? If a police officer arrests someone who robbed a liquor store, is he a Nazi as well?
quote:The national dem party has been stiff arming our "big wigs" for a while...note Pelossie's bizarre fuel economy requirements that are putting more Michigan employees out of work.
First, you might want to learn how to spell the of the Speaker of the House.
Second, the CAFE deal that was worked last week is supported by not only Michigan's congressional delegation, but by Chrysler, Ford & GM.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/U PDATE/712010414/1148/rss25 |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:13 pm: | |
"First, you might want to learn how to spell the of the Speaker of the House."
You say that as if she is someone that deserves respect. She does not.
The CAFE standards last week were the best that we could get while that Kook from California tried to ram even worse offenses down our throat.
She is a vile, repugnant and evil thing and her interests have nothing to do with this state or our citizens... no matter how much you genuflect to her and her cronies.
You compare the citizens of this state to liquor store thieves because they want due representation in the voting process? Is there not one bit of local loyalty in your body...or, more to the point, which of these bootjacked thugs do you get your paycheck from? |
Dsmith
Member
Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 140
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:56 pm: | |
All Michigan democrats should vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. If your looking for an anti-war, anti-NAFTA, anti-PATRIOT Act candidate then Dr. Paul is probably the one you should have been supporting the whole time. God knows Hillary's stance on these issues.
The real issue is the candidates that have withdrawn from the ballot. Michigan ultimately will probably get our delegates back at the convention but all our delegates will be for Hillary, simply because she's the only contender on the ballot. It's a shame. |
Redvetred
Member
Username: Redvetred
Post Number: 132
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Does this mean that the dems and reps can stay home and work on next year's budget? Maybe they can get it done a couple of weeks before hunting season starts and then they'll have four weeks vacation to "hunt". What a joke ••• |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2640
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:25 pm: | |
quote:You say that as if she is someone that deserves respect. She does not.
No matter how you feel about Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, one should have a modicum of respect for her office. I regard Senator Carl Levin as an idiot for dragging Michigan into this mess, but I still have enough respect for his office as a U.S. Senator to spell his name correctly.
quote:The CAFE standards last week were the best that we could get while that Kook from California tried to ram even worse offenses down our throat.
No one tried ramming anything down anyone's throat. More than a dozen states wanted CAFE standards that were even higher than what was eventually agreed to.
Michigan's congressional delegation, the auto industry and those states reached a compromise that everyone is content with. That's life in a democracy.
If you don't like it, I recommend a trip to Cuba. You won't be bothered with democracy there.
quote:You compare the citizens of this state to liquor store thieves because they want due representation in the voting process?
We had due representation in the voting process under the rules that Michigan's delegation voted for at the last Democratic National Convention. Those rules included the penalty provision that we are now subject to.
quote:Is there not one bit of local loyalty in your body...or, more to the point, which of these bootjacked thugs do you get your paycheck from?
I have plenty of local loyalty. I also have a healthy respect for the rule of law and common sense. I encourage you to become acquainted with both of these concepts. If more people did, Michigan wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
As for my paycheck, it doesn't come from anyone within the Democratic Party or from anyone out of state.
Please let me know what happens the next time you call a police officer a "jackbooted thug". |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 189
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:42 pm: | |
It's too bad that both parties couldn't randomly pick 10 states for a first round of primary votes, then pick a different 10 next primary cycle...,etc.
That way all states would have a fair say in electing a nominee. Fair? I guess that will never happen. The powers that be from both parties wouldn't have that. |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1300
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
Debbie Dingell, speaking on the Nov. 12th Paul W. Smith show:
quote:Where we are right now is that no matter what happens [about moving the Michigan Primary date], is that the candidates have already come to Michigan more than they would have.... and talked about Michigan more than they would have.
Maybe she was just trying to put a brave face on what at the time looked like a losing proposition (moving the MI Primary Election to an earlier date). However, where we are right now (Dec. 3rd) is that the earlier Jan. 15th election is a go, MI taxpayers will spend $10 million to conduct that election and by the time it is over, they still won't have heard from any more Democrat candidates since Nov. 12th.
Oh yeah, and both state parties will walk away with a fresh list of all those who voted in their Primary so they can unleash a flood of mailings in the fall campaign. And what about those delegates that were stripped away as punishment? Don't worry, there will be a back-room deal to seat them in time for the convention and they will vote as instructed, just like the parties did things back in the good old days! |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 413
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:54 pm: | |
No Warrenite84, it won't happen that way unfortunately.
Irish,
Give up arguing with Fnemecek. He has his views and they're not going to change. He's already been through this previously on this forum and others. It's not worth the grief of arguing with him on this particular topic. |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 427
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 2:19 pm: | |
"Um, so you don't end up with another incompetent idiot in the White House, perhaps?"
LOL I think all we have running are incompetents! ON BOTH SIDES. I dont even want to vote for any of them. IMO. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 3306
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 2:37 pm: | |
"You say that as if she is someone that deserves respect. She does not...
She is a vile, repugnant and evil thing and her interests have nothing to do with this state or our citizens... no matter how much you genuflect to her and her cronies."
Change "she" to "he," and "her" to "his" or "him," and these statements are applied remarkably well to the former speaker and that detestable slimeball, Newt Gingrich. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 3307
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 2:38 pm: | |
"Give up arguing with Fnemecek. He has his views and they're not going to change. He's already been through this previously on this forum and others. It's not worth the grief of arguing with him on this particular topic."
His views seem pretty rational and realistic to me. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1141
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 2:57 pm: | |
Sorry UMCS, you are right.
I guess it was just one of those days to get sucked in. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 309
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 3:04 pm: | |
D Smith writes:
All Michigan democrats should vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. If your looking for an anti-war, anti-NAFTA, anti-PATRIOT Act candidate then Dr. Paul is probably the one you should have been supporting the whole time. God knows Hillary's stance on these issues.
I agree 1000% with this. There is no use whining wether or not the Dems will acknowledge our primary votes because it does not matter anyway: Hillary is the candidate, this was settled long ago. She has the machine behind her, just not the general vote.
At least by voting for Ron Paul- a challenge goes the the Republicans that the continuation of Bush policies is not what voters want.
Vote for Ron Paul in the Primary, even if your a Democrat. |
Ray
Member
Username: Ray
Post Number: 1062
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 6:48 pm: | |
With the fall of the dollar, US exports are exploding and places like michigan stand to benefit the most.
What a Satanic cluster-F if, after years of getting the short end of the stick on trade, the good peple of Michigan out of fear and ignorance support tariffs just as they are about to finally score big on trade. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 8:53 pm: | |
Democrats for Ron Paul. There's a good idea. When he cuts every major social program to the bone, eliminates almost all taxes, and shutters the public schools we will be living on easy street. Great plan.
In honor of this thread I sent $100 to Obama and may send $50 to Edwards just to hedge my bets. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 312
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:31 pm: | |
Miesfan writes: "Democrats for Ron Paul. There's a good idea. When he cuts every major social program to the bone, eliminates almost all taxes, and shutters the public schools we will be living on easy street. Great plan."
-Except for the fact that he won't! How could he do this with the Dems controlling both houses.
While I don't agree with 100% of his platform, he would get us out of Iraq faster than anyone, I don't think Hillary will get us out of there so quick, again her position is wishy-washy. As well if we don't stabilize the Dollar, and reign in on deficits, there won't be a need to cut them: there won't be any money for them anyways.
I'd save the money for the contribution- as much as I would rather see Edwards or Obama get the nomination, they won't. Its Hillary, and always has been. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
In the same breath you suggest voting for Ron Paul as though he might actually win the GOP nomination and then the Presidency but discourage supporting Obama or Edwards because the nomination belongs to Clinton. Obama is leading in Iowa and gaining in New Hampshire.
Nope I'm putting my time and money in candidates with whom I agree with and are running to win. So Mike Gravel can stop calling my fucking cell phone. I'm not voting for a guy who advocates national referendum even if his campaign is serious. |
Miesfan
Member
Username: Miesfan
Post Number: 94
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 9:51 am: | |
And when I say my time, I mean that. I'm going to Iowa for a couple days after Christmas to work a phone bank or knock doors for Obama. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 315
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:14 am: | |
I hope I am wrong and it won't be a Hillary walk, but I have become jaded and skeptical with the process.
I don't trust Republicans, but have become VERY disappointed with the Democrats. They have essentially rolled over and played dead in the "new" congress, and given Bush everything he has wanted with only some hot air as opposition. Don't think this has gone unnoticed with the voters, many who switched parties because they wanted change, and the Democrats blew this important opportunity.
Also note, candidates have won in Iowa and NH, but lost the nomination.
My crystal ball (and I hope I am wrong) is that the nomination goes to Hillary, and she gets trounced in the general election, and we get another 4+ years of Bush like policies, which we literally can no longer sustain. The world is getting weary of loaning us money to support a government and military we cannot afford.
The Democrats are horrible at running campaigns, with the exception of Bill Clinton, but Hillary is not Bill, and this is where the party is kidding themselves because they believe this. Experience and observation points this out. They said the same thing about Kerry, and it was his election to loose. A formidable opponent should have won this in a landslide, but didn't.
Personally I really would like a third party alternative. I really do feel two choices that are in many ways quite similar is not a choice at all. Both are beholden to special interest and corporate money, and not to what is best for citizens. |
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