  Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1039 Registered: 02-2007 |
You folks here are as smart as can be on car subjects..Are there holes in this guy's story, or is he for real? http://www.dailykos.com/storyo nly/2007/10/30/14161/066 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 534 Registered: 10-2007 |
Sounds too good to be true. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cjs Member Username: Cjs Post Number: 20 Registered: 08-2007 |
I think this is total BS | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Zxzm Member Username: Zxzm Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2007 |
Diesels get better fuel mileage. You can get a diesel to run on bio-diesel. Nobody has ever challenged that. But the main point that they're missing is that that car would have gotten much better mileage if it hadn't been tuned to put out 800 hp. The Big 3 get bashed relentlessly for producing cars that only get 25 mpg. Side note: Bio-diesel won't do anything to ease overall consumer costs. Bio-diesel comes from vegetable oil. Can you image the increase demand on crops if we were to convert all our cars to bio-diesel? Food prices would soar in response to the new demand. This phenomena has already happened to corn prices due to the new reliance on ethanol as of late. There isn't a magic bullet for any of this shit. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 352 Registered: 06-2007 |
And here's the part where he's shown to be fibbing a bit. http://www.dailykos.com/story/ 2007/10/30/153528/46 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1040 Registered: 02-2007 |
Smokey Yunick redux. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 542 Registered: 02-2007 |
Impossible=Impractical | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 622 Registered: 08-2006 |
Aren't you guys forgetting all auto makers purposly keep all green tech suppresed?! They keep it under wraps even though it is highly profitable. After all we are all aware that business's hate money. Thats why we can blindly trust a barely-educated garage tinkerer. It makes complete sense! He may be a complete moron but at least he is not controlled by the conspiracy. He also is against capitalist fat-cats but he will gladly sell you one of is devices. This includes- 100mph carbs, special oil, air filters, and lets not forget the "Tornado". | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1648 Registered: 11-2003 |
What a load of crap. First of all, there is an obvious anti-American car bias tone throughout the entire article. Instant BS flag raised. 2nd, there seem to be way too many instances of "GM engineers were doing this, or saying that, or said they couldn't do this". Again, BS flags go up. And finally, people always seem to act like these things don't get done because the auto companies can't/don't want to do them (and notice I am saying auto companies, not Detroit, as this article seems to only mention Detroit not doing this stuff). What they fail to realize is the cost of a lot of this stuff. Yeah, I could make some super awesome electric/turbine/biodiesel powered car, but what does that stuff cost? (people aren't going to pay $100,000 for a family car just cause it uses fancy technology just to save a few gallons of gas) Is it reliable over hundreds of thousands of miles? How much does it weigh? Whats the cost savings over the life of the vehicle? Maybe a turbine and biodiesel and batteries only fit in a hummer cause its giant to begin with? How you gonna fit that in a Ford Fusion and make it work? This article is a load of crap. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 344 Registered: 06-2005 |
Wow. So their engine is quiet because the fuel they're burning is a better lubricant than diesel/fuel oil. All these years I thought my V-dub engine made noise because it was injecting a diesel mist into super hot compressed air and combusting. ;) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2845 Registered: 10-2003 |
Everyone knows diesel is more efficient than Gasoline. All of the big three make diesel powered cars for Europe. 1/3 of all vehicles sold in Europe are diesel powered. They know how to make them. There are two major problems with Diesels. First there are very few buyers in North America. VW, Mercedes and Chrysler all have sold Diesels recently in North America. The demand just isn't there. The second issue is the amount of pollution produced. All three of the mentioned manufacturers had to pull the previously offered engines. They were unable to meet current EPA regulations. These manufacturers do have new technology ready. It meets most states EPA regulations. They can't be sold in California, the number 1 market in North America. They still aren't clean enough to be sold in CA. The problem isn't with the manufacturers. They can and do make higher mileage cars. The big three's european average is 35 MPG. We consumers just continue to opt for large gas sucking vehicles with the largest engines we can pack into them. We continue to choose trucks over cars. We continue to spec the cars with V8's instead of sixes or fours. We continue to demand large, quiet, plush, Safe cars, packed full of every infotainment device known to man. We are unwilling to pay the same price for a smaller car. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3021 Registered: 06-2004 |
but try telling THAT to Obama, who shot his mouth off again last night about "standing up" to the automakers on fuel efficiencies | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 902 Registered: 12-2006 |
There are a couple of problems. 1. American automakers can't make money selling small cars, here or anywhere. If their European partners or subsidiaries can sell small cars in Europe and make money, great, but that economic model doesn't seem to work for them here. Their unit costs are too high. They need to fix that, and they're working on it, but they aren't there yet. That's why they market the hell out of big vehicles in North America. 2. As mentioned, biodiesel isn't (and can't be) produced in large enough quantities to make a difference to the general public. Interestingly, several school districts right here in the D run their buses exclusively on biodiesel, and save money by doing so - but that doesn't scale up to all 190 million or so American motorists. The supply can't exist. Ethanol has a big problem that biodiesel does not: it can't be transported easily. The petroleum pipelines in the western hemisphere corrode if you try to shove ethanol through them; not so with biodiesel. Either one, in the quantities we need, uses more crop than is practical, but we're working on that problem. Jerome81 makes another good point. I looked at the Prius (sorry). I took the cost of a Prius over the cost of a high-mileage, conventional-engine car and said to myself, "how long will it take to pay back that additional investment, given how much I drive?" It would take so long that it wasn't even close to worth the extra investment, not to mention the fact you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to buy a foreign car. So I continue to drive my Contour, which still gets over 30 MPG despite having well over a quarter million on the odometer, and wait for the engineers to come up with something that impresses me  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 568 Registered: 07-2007 |
bio fuel. french fry smell of exhaust fumes.... ah smell like coney island on jefferson and randolph. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 251 Registered: 06-2007 |
"So I continue to drive my Contour, which still gets over 30 MPG despite having well over a quarter million on the odometer" Thats getting your moneys worth.If you're going to buy it, get the most you can out of it. Anyway....I think people still have a bad impression about diesels. All they can think of are those clattery, smelly late-'70s Mercedes with those glow-plugs. Those cars that you have to leave running overnight. The technology has improved, but I don't think the word has gotten out yet to enough people. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Zxzm Member Username: Zxzm Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2007 |
Everybody seems to forget that you have to replace the batteries in a hybrid after about 5 years... at a cost of about $4-5k. And disposing of the old ones ain't too environmentally friendly, either. (Message edited by zxzm on November 01, 2007) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 958 Registered: 10-2003 |
It wasn't the Merc diesels which stunk up the diesel's reputation over here - it was Oldsmobile's lame attempt. What a fiasco. They tried to save money by 'dieselizing' an existing gas motor. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 3290 Registered: 02-2007 |
all the old-school diesels were noisy and smelly, and diesel was not commonly available at gas stations, but the GM 350 (I think that was the one?) certainly drove the last nail in that coffin. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lukabottle Member Username: Lukabottle Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2004 |
Know some kids who had a diesel van converted to veggie oil. They traveled around Michigan and said the whole trip, they stunk like french fries. My friends has an old diesel 300m he hopes to convert. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 292 Registered: 05-2006 |
Quote: We consumers just continue to opt for large gas sucking vehicles with the largest engines we can pack into them. We continue to choose trucks over cars. We continue to spec the cars with V8's instead of sixes or fours. We continue to demand large, quiet, plush, Safe cars, packed full of every infotainment device known to man. We are unwilling to pay the same price for a smaller car. Awesome! And here I thought the Detroit automakers were having trouble unloading their gas guzzling SUVs. All those stories about GM and Ford not being able to sell their vehicles and hybrids selling like hotcakes must have been dreamed up by the media. I will run out and invest my 401 K in GM stock right now! (reality check please!) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1486 Registered: 02-2005 |
There are also electrically powered cars that have amazed gas powered drag racers with their sub-12 second quarter miles. http://www.nedra.com/ But like a biodiesel Hummer, it's one thing to build a one of a kind car and quite another to be able to mass produce that car and price it for the market. Most folks using biodiesel today have to have their own facility for converting used oils into fuel and do it themselves (including going to restaurants to pick up used oils, and every type of oil is different so the conversion process for every oil is different). From what I've read, the cost to make used oils into biodiesel, not including time or labor, is in the 60c/gal. range. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2049 Registered: 04-2006 |
Everybody seems to forget that you have to replace the batteries in a hybrid after about 5 years... at a cost of about $4-5k. And disposing of the old ones ain't too environmentally friendly, either. Sounds like the transmission on a Taurus... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2846 Registered: 10-2003 |
Nainrouge, the numbers do not back up your assumptions. People have stopped buying cars and trucks equally. The autocompanies are hurting due to the the volume of total sales dropping. There has been no significant shift in the market share from trucks to cars. In fact car sales have dropped faster than truck sales. I also see the imports gaining market share more due to the economic problems affecting the markets that are traditionally the big threes top markets. From Wards automotive. These numbers are from WARD'S North America Vehicle Production Summary
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Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 293 Registered: 05-2006 |
October figures show an increase in sales of 15,312 for cars as opposed to -1,285 for truck sales. Same source. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11714 Registered: 10-2003 |
The ORIGINAL Hummer was available in a diesel version long before the H2 ever even came out. Why the hell would they claim it couldn't be done? This guy is totally full of shit. GM, along with the other Big 3, constantly build side projects that "can't be done." In many instances, its simply not practical to manufacture many of their experiments. That being said, GM has multiple warehouses in metro Detroit, filled with cars that "couldn't be built." This guy's claim to fame is an engine swap? LMAO! I've been doing those since I was 15. Putting an engine that originally didn't come in a car is hardly rocket science, especially when working with such a massive vehicle as an H2, hardly a shoe horn job to install a different engine. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 543 Registered: 02-2007 |
Nainrouge, Manufacturers build what sells. Suv's were selling, should they build economy cars when they aren't selling? It's laughable how nearsighted people are. Raise Gas prices overnight, and they start crying for smaller cars. Where were they the week before? Happily driving their gas-guzzler. How history repeats itself. In 75 there was a 1 year waiting list for VW Diesel Rabbits, 2 years later, one couldn't give them away. The bottom line, people in this country aren't going to drive third world cars for any length of time. When they realize how much they have to give up to do so, the fuel prices seem much more affordable. Also, Driver safety is a huge concern and potential cost that would offset any savings, obviously. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3025 Registered: 06-2004 |
"October figures show an increase in sales of 15,312 for cars as opposed to -1,285 for truck sales." surprisingly small drop in truck sales considering both higher fuel prices and the downturn in homebuilding and its related industries | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2006 |
H Y D R O G E N ••• | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2847 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: And where the hell are you going to get the hydrogen from? Oh that's right from water. How do you separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water? Oh that's right you need electricity to do that. Where does that electricity come from? Oh That's right you have to produce electricity by burning huge amounts of fossil fuels or running nuclear power plants. There's no way solar or wind will generate enough electricity to replace the amount of oil we burn in vehicles. There's no such thing as a free lunch. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 296 Registered: 05-2006 |
US companies are not selling economy cars, because they don't make them! The only US car that could be considered a "small" car is the Aveo which is really a Daewoo. There is nothing to compete with the Honda Fit, the Nissan Versa, the Toyota Yaris, or the Mini. Raise gas prices overnight? Now who is shortsighted? Gas prices will continue to fluctuate but the trend will continue to raise. No one argues that we will ever see $1 gas again. Have you been watching the cost of oil lately? It has gone through the roof (again). It is at about $95 a barrel currently. Experts predict it will be at $100 a barrel by the end of the year, an all-time record even after adjusting for inflation. We will see this at the pump very soon. Surprisingly small drop in truck sales given the economy? How about surprisingly large increase in car sales given the same economy? Hydrogen is not ready and will not be ready for a good while. We already have the technology available (hybrid electric, electric, bio-fuel)to make a difference. Are these technologies going to replace oil? No, not in the near term. You can't flick a switch and go from one source of energy to the other overnight. We do need, however, to begin moving in that direction before we run into a true crisis. Other countries are way ahead of us and we will be playing catch-up once again. |
