  Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 395 Registered: 08-2006 |
oh I'm already there Detroitrise. I found the thread pointless from the start so I stayed away until just now. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 397 Registered: 08-2006 |
OPs disappearing like crazy!  | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 350 Registered: 01-2007 |
Scs100, I love HNIC... all it needs is the recorder and the 'Friendly Giant' tunes for the 'Hot Stove League' and 'After Hours'! | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 558 Registered: 02-2007 |
Dump the fist. It's triumphal nonsense that reinforces the decision of many who choose to avoid the City. Old Red - other than a few (aside from me and you) none visit the labor monument? Other than Labor Day "the people" never visit. The art may be beautiful, but the people have voted and the monument is irrelevant. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10939 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: People that see hate in the fist and use it as an excuse to avoid the city need to resolve their own issues as opposed to projecting them onto the city. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 282 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jackindabox banned??? thank some higher power. That was the most useless 5 hours of my life. ha! | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 126 Registered: 08-2007 |
put the fist next to the big bell in grand circus & ring the bell every time the tigers score. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 4538 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's a nice sculpture, but looks silly just hanging there. It needs to move, like Joe Louis'fists did. My two ideas for improvement are: Either add a coin operated slot that activates it to punch things (maybe a life size statue of George Bush as a monkey) or put at the head of the People Mover so that it goes round and round. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 446 Registered: 08-2007 |
Pam, if I thought the monumnents should "match" I would have said "match". Why do you feel the need to morph ridicule into almost every post? I said, ...Woodward and Jefferson area is a cluster fuck of mixed messages that lack thematic cohesion. I offer in contrast Grant Park in Chicago. Trod the pathway there; one flows from one public space to another, there is an intergration of monuments and space. Or the Mall in Washington, even SouthBeach in Miami has a visual flow to public space and how public art pieces are intergrated into one another. Who knows that there is a monument to millions of murdered Armenians down there? Ever visit it? Ever read the plaque and the story of the martyred priest? You should, it's only 20 feet away from the fist. (Message edited by gnome on December 09, 2007) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1151 Registered: 10-2003 |
It is really a cluster that could stand a bit of thoughtful cohesion ....probably best done around the reconstruction as Ford Auditorium is torn down and Hart Plaza is redone. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2007 |
I don't think any of the sculpture is really bad--I think the fist would look better on a thin (as possible) single support rather than the contraption it is hanging from now; I don't know if the artist intended that method of display for some aesthetic/symbolic reason which escapes me, or if it is incidental, but the fist itself seems fine. I agree that the area of Woodward/Jefferson intersection could use a some redesign, but I don't have any specific ideas about that. Actually, I have one: I think through traffic on Jefferson should run underground in front of Hart Plaza, leaving just a relatively narrow surface road. But that is probably technically infeasible, and in any case I don't imagine it is going to happen. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2332 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: quote: quote: I think he's trying to remind us of the famous quote from Coco Chanel: quote: So get rid of that broken circle and rocks thing in Hart Plaza. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3130 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: I don't. quote: That is a better explanation than what you originally offered. Thank you. quote: Yes I have. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 959 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: quote: The fact that many people view the Joe Louis fist sculpture as a symbol of racial division and/or a representation of violence and hostility, is really quite sad. The JL fist was commissioned with a $350,000 grant from Sports Illustrated magazine, and came as a gift to the city of Detroit. -------------------- This sculpture is a tribute to a man who overcame terrible bigotry and racism, and broke down incredible racial barriers. Joe Louis is probably the most under-appreciated man in the history of American civil rights. Without the accomplishments of Joe Louis paving the way, Jackie Robinson may have not had the opportunity to break the color barrier in baseball. Without Joe Louis, white Americans may have been less supportive of the civil rights movement. When Joe Louis defeated Max Schmeling in 1938, he became an American hero, and disproved Hitler's claims of Aryan superiority. --------------- The Joe Louis Fist pays homage to this man, who changed racial perceptions in America, and around the world. All Americans, especially Detroiters, should look at that fist and remember the walls that it smashed down. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 3390 Registered: 02-2004 |
What Erik said. I'm downtown every night, and I walk through Hart Plaza almost every night. People are always in that area, looking at ALL OF THE PIECES (including the Labor monument). It all came together haphazardly, but that's Detroit, isn't it? | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 100 Registered: 04-2005 |
Well said Erikd the fist isn't about violence. It's about honoring someone who broke down walls. If you lived during that time or studied history you'd understand. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1513 Registered: 12-2006 |
quote: No better way to spend a Saturday!  | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 447 Registered: 08-2007 |
Boxing isn't violent? The Civil Rights struggle wasn't violent? Fighting Max Schmeling or against racism wasn't violent? What part of non-violent does the fist represent? You can love the gosh darn thing, you can think it is the nicest piece of art in town, but I don't see how anyone can say the fist isn't violent. Without violence you have no Joe Louis. Violence and Joe Louis are like peas and carrots, peanut butter and jelly ... | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 560 Registered: 02-2007 |
Qoute "Well said Erikd the fist isn't about violence. It's about honoring someone who broke down walls. If you lived during that time or studied history you'd understand." But the fist is used as a symbol of something, and to deny it is to misunderstand history. It's "easy" to understand the symbolisms embedded in the Confederate battle flag. Why is it difficult to grasp the symbolism and placement of the Fist? I stand by what I said: triumphal nonsense. Egg-breaking art should not occupy our public squares. (Message edited by craig on December 09, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4082 Registered: 10-2003 |
Tearing down art is no way to build on a city's culture. Clearly it does what art is meant to, provoke response and thought. I grew up my whole life never thinking it represented "black power". It took racists to explain that to me, much like a child has no such thoughts until they are passed to him. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3134 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: The black power fist points up, not sideways: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1 968_Olympics_Black_Power_salut e | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4085 Registered: 10-2003 |
Right, wrong choice of words. Let me clarify: I grew up my whole life never thinking it represented "black power". It took racists to tell me people actually feel that way about it. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 561 Registered: 02-2007 |
I didn't say that the Fist is on par with the Battle Flag. The race-based symbolism is common to both. Interpret any way that you like, but don't deny the possibility that some regard the fist as I've described. Point me to a credible critic of Zev Chafets' interpretation of the Fist and our regions politics and I might be able to understand your POV. JL - to be fair I'll advocate a wrecking ball for every public monument failing the 100%-agree test. This is what the public schools are doing with the traditional holidays, anyway, so the general sanitizing is already well under way. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3202 Registered: 06-2004 |
I always look at people's reaction to the fist as an inclusivity litmus test. If they are threatened by it they fail. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 562 Registered: 02-2007 |
quote "I always look at people's reaction to the fist as an inclusivity litmus test. If they are threatened by it they fail." By that logic the failure to understand the perspective of others can serve as a litmus test for intellectual capacity and objectivity. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 961 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I won't try to compare Joe Louis to Thurgood Marshall or Martin Luther King, but there is a valid link to Jackie Robinson. Joe Louis was really the the first black man to transcend racial barriers, and be widely supported by white Americans. quote: http://info.detnews.com/histor y/story/index.cfm?id=52&catego ry=sports Before Joe Louis, "negroes" were widely viewed as second-class and inferior. When Joe Louis beat Max Schmeling, it changed the mindset and attitudes of many white Americans. Joe Louis wasn't just some "negro", he was an American hero. He was an American champion. He was an AMERICAN. | ||
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres Post Number: 297 Registered: 02-2007 |
This is probably the stupidest thread that I have ever read! Get rid of the fist? WTF? I swear that sometimes when I read these threads the most ridiculous stuff comes out of peoples mouths(or their fingers, in this case!). Art is just what it is:art. It is someone's interpretation of an ideal that they hold dear and often evokes strong responses such as have been stated here. To say that one piece of art is "better" than another is just pure hogwash. It is a matter of personal taste. That being said, this monument to Joe Louis is appropriate and represents one of the greatest men, black or white, to have ever graced this city with their presence. His statue at Cobo is also appropriate.Perhaps we forget that he stood against what ALL people stood against in those days-the Third Reich and their superiority over the world. Apparently, when that fist is mistaken for the Black Power movement, people were not watching the Olympics in 1972. I distinctly remember the "raised fists" then as a symbol of anti-establishment thinking, and the Joe Louis fist representation is not that same scenario at all. This thread, however, is a clear example of intolerance and misunderstanding. It is also a sad example of the "anchor" that so many of us here drag around with us. If we want to be better, than we need to stop this childish BS. Gnome- Not that she needs to be defended, but Pam was the first one in a thread about the Armenian Genocide a few back to point out the existence of the Father Gomidas statue acknowledging the Genocide and his involvement in it. I may not agree with everything I have read that she has written, but she does know what she is talking about, and has added significantly to many threads on this forum. Lastly, I think back to a couple of years ago when a couple of drunken suburbanites tried to make the same arguments with some white paint that I have read here. They clearly showed their disrespect for the black community and painted all whites with a very broad brush. Not all white people think the sam way......... At SOME point we will ALL need each other. What will we do then? |
