 
Detmi7mile
Member
Username: Detmi7mile
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:09 am: |    |
i think seeing the spread offense here in michigan would look different but when you think about it, spread offense with running quarterbacks seems to be the way to go...look at illinois...theyre gonna be a force in the big ten next year |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2055
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:10 am: | |
The new coach has Michigan ties after all. One of Michigan's greatest coaches, Fielding H.("Hurry up") Yost was born in West Virginia and was a graduate of their Law School. So we have a great new coach, great tradition and great potential.
Looking forward to M-Utah next August 30 at the Big House. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 912
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:13 am: | |
The Bo era is officially over. Im looking forward to the future.
The_rock, the white smoke was great.
Major_sekou, you forgot to add that UM will beat MSU again. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 434
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:59 am: | |
Kenp,
Coaching doesn't change the fact that Michigan is going to lose a LOT of weapons. In fact, more likely than not, Mallet is gone. He can't run Dick Rod's offense. I don't think Michigan has a QB capable of running that offense. So step 1, Michigan has to find a QB out of thin air.
After Dick Rod finds a QB (if he does) he has to figure out who to hand off the ball to. Let's face it, Hart's backups aren't exactly the most feared runners in the Big Ten. Who's going to gain yards on the ground for Big Blue?
This doesn't even count the lose of key linemen like long and the likely early departures of both Arrington and Manningham due to the fact that the spread option isn't exactly offer a lot of touches for wide receivers.
Moving to the other side of the ball, Dick Rod brings over the ever feared 3-3-5 defense. This means 3 defensive linemen, 3 linebackers, and 5 defensive backs with one of the DBs being a hybrid position called a Bandit. This defense has only been tried once in the Big Ten...by the John L. Smith coached Michigan State Spartans. This formation may work well in conferences like the Big East or Conference USA, but it just lacks the toughness it takes to win in the Big Ten.
The interesting thing about this is that Michigan is going to get a taste of its own medicine from the power rushing teams of the Big Ten. For decades, Michigan's MO was control the clock with the run and win the game on defense. The spread offense is a score quick, zero ball control offense. This means that a team who uses the spread has a defense that is on the field ALL game long. Couple that with the 3-3-5's ineffectiveness at stopping the run and you will see Michigan opponents DOMINATING time of possession and wearing down the Michigan defense.
The point is, time will tell if this was a smart hire. Michigan is throwing away a formula that has kept them successful for decades. They may find out that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. So don't count those victories against MSU just yet. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 914
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:06 am: | |
Thank you for the insite El_jimbo. We shall see what happens. If we can get the QB Pryor that would be huge.
I only stated that about MSU because I was only completing Major's poopy message. He basically said everything would stay the same. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4183
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:20 am: | |
Michigan struggles to even embrace playing defense against the spread for years, and then they go get the innovator of that offense. Bold. Amazing.
Apparently the #1 recruit in the nation might come with him. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 435
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
Kenp,
Pryor would be a big get for you guys. However, as a non-Michigan fan trying to warn Michigan fans ahead of time, try to show a bit of patience. Next year you will have a new coach with a totally new offense and defense, starting (if they get Pryor) a true freshman QB and possibly a true freshman at running back (McGuffie). There will be growing pains and that might be a very bitter pill to swallow for a Wolverine fan base who is not used to anything but success.
Another thing that would concern me if I were a Michigan fan. Doesn't Rodriquez remind you of Saban in the way he seems to CONSTANTLY be looking for the next job? He almost left for Alabama last year and used that to leverage big bucks out of West Virginia only to leave West Virginia this season to go to Michigan.
Part of Michigan's success, in my opinion, has been its stability and the loyalty to the program of the staff. With the exit of Lloyd Carr and the radically different coaching approach and philosophy of Rodriguez, those two traits are out the window. Michigan fans might as well resign themselves to the fact that one way or the other, Dick Rod will not be in Ann Arbor for very long. He'll either be very successful and leave for another college job that pays more or to the NFL in 3-5 years or he will fall on his face and be fired in 3 years. This is not a guy like Carr or Bo who will stick around for a decade plus. |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1800
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:24 am: | |
Kenp did you not notice I had already typed that in my post? |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 916
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:27 am: | |
Again, excellent post El_jimbo, minus the, "Dick Rod" nickname.
The transition will be interesting. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3040
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:36 am: | |
El Jimbo:
Mallett ran the spread offense successfully in high school, and Rodriguez ran it successfully without a mobile quarterback before Pat White...
That said, this hire is bigger than Ryan Mallet...he'll be here another 2 years, maybe three...hiring a coach is a long term thing |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 251
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
As a State grad I have enjoyed immensely the debacle that has been this search thus far, c'mon, we have to deal with Joel Furguson...debacle is our middle name when it comes to coach searches, but this one has me scratching my head. THIS guy is the "MEEEchigan Man" Bill Martin was looking high and low for...that is, when not sailing off the coast of Florida?
Les Miles was a boy scout compared to this guy. Noel Divine anyone? Guys on the team busted for fencing stolen goods? How about the abysmal grad rate? Throw in a gun charge or two and you have Florida State.
This coach bolts from his school (his alma mater no less!)for the big pay day and leaves his team (and his alma mater...did I say that?) before probably the biggest Bowl game they've played in? THAT is some how holding to some mythical moral code that is MEEEEchigan Football? (Don't forget the aforementioned power play he pulled to get more money out of WVU when Alabama came calling)
UM better have an insurmountable buy-out clause because 2.5 mil a year isn't going to keep this guy if he has any success. His behavior thus far has been Saban-like.
Let's also remember this is a coach who is ONE win away from playing for the national championship, chokes on PITT, and opens the door for OSU to go to the National championship game. Wait, not preparing one's team for far outclassed opponents? Maybe he IS the right coach for UM.
I don't understand all the slappy devotion to this guy in the local media and from the fans. What has UM really gotten here? A third choice hire from lesser conference that might stick around long enough to get UM into BCS bowl IF he lasts long enough to do that?
I can not wait to hear all the whining next year when UM goes 7-5, or worse, b/c the guy is using personnel that don't fit into his spread offense system. Anyone checked out UM 's BBall team lately? Another hire (coincidently WVU) with a "system" built for others. Tremendous success there, the "fire Belien" signs have started and it's not even the Big Ten season yet.
And finally, why when MSU hired JLS, who at the time, was widely perceived as a "spread" offense guru, did the local media piss all over the "spread" and call it a "gimmicky" offense reserved for "lesser" teams? But now, RR is anointed as the savior of UM's program primarily because he is a spread offense guru? Is UM a "lesser team" that is clinging desperately to "gimmicks"?
The long and short of it is I hear a lot of the same spin and hype we all heard in EL when JLS came to town. Upstart from a lesser conference, breath of fresh air, unpolished, some discipline problems with his teams, but bringing a whole new way of playing football. Worked out great at MSU. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 436
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:45 am: | |
Rodriguez doesn't run the spread offense. He runs the spread option. Most teams use the spread to try and open up passing lanes. Rodriquez uses the spread to run the option. What Dick Rod does is nothing more than the modern version of the Wishbone. Ryan Mallet is not a wishbone QB. He is going to go someplace where he can throw the ball. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 921
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
The MSU folks sure are interested in our hire. The cool thing is that your posts are here for future reference. You might be right or you might be wrong, we shall see. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 437
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
Kenp,
It is wise to know one's enemy.
-The Hunt for Red October |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3041
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:53 am: | |
El_Jimbo,
Sometimes you get your little brother excited when you’re playing basketball, and you let him get the lead, and then you come back and take it back.
-Mike Hart |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 252
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:04 am: | |
Kenp- I'll gladly eat crow if it turns out Rod is the savior of the program and stays for many years. However, his personal history and the nature of the college coaching game would indicate otherwise. The completely unrealistic demands of UM's fan base will, no doubt, only hasten a departure if success is not immediate. God forbid UM loses to OSU a couple more times early in his tenure.
Pryor might save him early... but he still needs to get Pryor. Currently Pryor's highlight reel on youtube has "Welcome to Buckeye City" as a soundtrack...so he might be a tough sell. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 253
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:15 am: | |
quote:You want to beat Ohio State. I got one more year left. I'm going to get them next year.
-Mike Hart, zero wins against Ohio State. Zero bowl victories.
Apparently UM is the middle child? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3042
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:21 am: | |
OSU has always been a worthy opponent, but Michigan leads the series all time 57-41-6
MSU, not so worthy...I would add up all of Michigan's victories against MSU, but I don't feel like counting that high right now
I look forward to Coach Rod continuing the tradition and crushing both of these teams well into the future ; ) |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 254
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:40 am: | |
It's only ten more wins TJ... even a UM grad should be able to count to ten. 
From UM's AD All time record website. (current through 2005...I included 2006&07)
MSU Since 1898- 67 W 28 L 5ties
OSU Since 1897- 57 W 41 L 6ties
(Message edited by higgs1634 on December 17, 2007) |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 438
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:45 am: | |
The jesus,
anybody related to the University of Michigan trying to insult Michigan State by using a basketball reference immediately loses all credibility.
Come back with your basketball quotes when you can beat Harvard and Central Michigan. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3044
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
I'll do you one better Higgs...I'll count to 11
That's the number of victories that Michigan would still lead the series by even if you were to DOUBLE the number of victories that MSU has accumulated thus far...
whew, I knew we led the series, but I didn't realize it was by that much...who calls this a rivalry again?
(Message edited by thejesus on December 17, 2007) |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 439
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:48 am: | |
Pride comes before the fall. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3045
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:51 am: | |
El_Jimbo:
Not really interested...I place basketball somewhere above women's softball but somewhere below men's lacrosse in the universal spectrum of college sports...
That's cute though that you guys have one team you can get excited about...how many of you guys can fit into that little basketball stadium again?
(Message edited by thejesus on December 17, 2007) |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3046
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:55 am: | |
"Pride comes before the fall."
only if you subscribe to ancient Hebrew proverbs.. |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 991
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
Higgs, what's your source for WV's abysmal grad rate?
I did a quick search and found a link that discussed football grad rates of the bowl teams.
They didn't list the grad rate of WV, but they did list the three teams with the worst grad rate for football players and WV wasn't one of them. Can you guess which team had the 3rd worse grad rate? Hint: starts with a M, ends with a U and there's an S in the middle. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 255
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:13 pm: | |
RJ.. I apologize. The percentage was for black players...not the whole team. It was a 59%. If he hits that number at UM, it would be an improvement. UM is at 56% for black players.
MSU was even worse. It is an embarrassment for sure, no argument there. Hopefully under Dantonio that trend will reverse. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 440
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:17 pm: | |
Tell that to the Michigan Football program then. Since that statement was made, Michigan hasn't won a game and has endured a very embarrassing coaching search. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 441
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:02 pm: | |
Also, another Michigan tradition I'd like to see continue...Schembechler, Moeller, and Carr all lost their first game against MSU. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2791
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:26 pm: | |
I predict MSU to beat M in football next fall..........maybe........... .then back to the usual, M beating the crap out of state on a regular basis.
It is rather amusing that state patrons are so threatened by UM. By all credible accts Rodriguez is great hire.........let's put it this way if state had hired him you guys would be peeing your pants.
As for basketball anyone that puts it with womans softball is wrong. M had a great b ball tradition that has been allowed to go completely in the tank. I blame Goss for making Ellerbe coach those many years ago. And the failure of the Um community to support basketball since then. As a long time fan with memories of Glen Rice, Cazzie Russell , Campy Russell, the fab five and so much more it is truly sad to see M basketball fall so far.
I think we have the right guy in Beiline; it is just gonna take a lot of time. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 442
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:32 pm: | |
City,
5 years ago, you are correct, we would have loved Rodriguez. HOWEVER, we've seen what happens when you run that offense and that defense in East Lansing. It isn't pretty. The Bandit doesn't work in the Big Ten because it can't stop a real Big Ten rushing attack. All I have to use to emphasize that is pointing out what Mike Hart was able to do against the 3-3-5 bandit defense. Notice how this year he didn't run for NEARLY as many yards against a more traditional 4-3 when Michigan played Michigan State? His longest play from scrimmage was a busted play when he picked up the forced fumble when Mallet got hit. For the most part, Hart was contained in that game where in the past he ran wild over MSU's bandit defense. |