 
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1801
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:38 pm: |    |
Really I am happy this coaching search nonsense is at its end, normally after the Ohio State loss Michigan fans disappear until the next August because they wouldn't dare make any noise during Spartan A.K.A. basketball season. Now you guys are still around and that is totally throwing me off. I guess after Florida beats you and Ohio State wins the championship you all will finally hibernate for the season and honestly I cant wait.
GO GREEN!!
GO BUCKEYES!!
GO GATORS!! |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 256
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
quote:I blame Goss for making Ellerbe coach those many years ago.
Only Goss? No blame for Ed Martin, any of the "fab five" or Steve Fisher? The FF fiasco is the reason UM BBall is in it's current state. Without that mess, you guys are building on the 89 Championship through the nineties, instead they spent a decade operating under a cloud of NCAA investigation and sanctions.
quote:I think we have the right guy in Beiline; it is just gonna take a lot of time.
A good hire for sure, however, the question is; will he be given the time to do it? |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2792
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
Bullshit El_jimbo you would have drooled over Rodriguez if he were hired last week |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
Oddly enough I got this group invite from a friend on facebook just a minute ago
Michigan Football Has 1 National Championship since 1949!
Sports & Recreation - College Sports
This group is dedicated to raising awareness about how massively overrated the University of Michigan football program has been since 1950.
Here are Big Ten programs that have won national championships since 1950:
4 - Ohio State (1954, 1957, 1968, 2002)
3 - Michigan State (1952, 1965, 1966)
2 - Penn State (1982, 1986)
1 - Minnesota (1960)
1 - Michigan (1997)
Add to this that Bo Schembechler never won a national title. I guess his quote of, "Those who stay will be champions" was for Ohio State, Michigan State, and Penn State players.
Sure Michigan has 7 championships but they won 6 of them before most people’s grandparents were born 1901, 1902, 1923, 1933, 1947, and 1948.
4 of Michigan's national titles were given retroactively. It was not until 1934 that the Associated Press Poll was created.
Now that is interesting this I didn't even know. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2389
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:00 pm: | |
At least Michigan has won a championship within the last 40 years... |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 443
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:22 pm: | |
Citylover,
That's not BS at all. That's a simple fact. MSU did the spread thing and the bandit thing. It didn't work. We scrapped it. We are PERFECTLY happy with what Mark Dantonio brings.
Also, another reason we wouldn't be happy with getting him is because we already had our greedy, no loyalty coach when Saban was here. Do you really think we'd want to go through that again? Why would we want to hire a coach that would do nothing but combine all the bad elements of John L. Smith and Nick Saban?
Look, he may work out just fine at Michigan, but he would be nowhere near the top of an MSU candidate list.
You can believe that or not. I don't really care, but it isn't bullshit. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:24 pm: | |
Iheartthed,
and that national championship was a decade ago so what does that have to do with today? |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4185
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:37 pm: | |
Clearly one man speaks for MSU athletics. Right, yeah, they wouldn't want Rodriguez. Haha. I'd say with your chronic lack of talent you need the wisest most innovative coach you can get.
Why the hell do you care about the Michigan coaching tradition and loyalty etc.? I can see that you envy how we did so well by staying within our own house for 40 years, but it all started by bringing in an outsider, Bo, who not only came from another state, but he brought Ohio State ties.
That greedy, no loyalty coach you're disparaging was also responsible for your 30-year high point when you had 10 wins. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2390
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:47 pm: | |
quote:Iheartthed,
and that national championship was a decade ago so what does that have to do with today?
I can remember when Michigan last won a national championship, whereas I wasn't even alive when State last won one... |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 445
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
Mackinaw,
Rodriguez isn't even at Michigan a full day and all of a sudden he's Bo Schembechler?
Tell me something, would Bo have left a team about ready to play a BCS bowl game and who was also one game away from the National Championship for a school just because it was offering more money? Would he have done this a year after blackmailing that school into giving him a pay raise by pursuing interests in another school?
Rich Rodriguez is many things, but he's certainly no Bo Schembechler.
Also, don't confuse respect with envy. Michigan has been very successful over the years by "being Michigan". It will be very interesting to see what happens when Michigan stops "being Michigan".
Change for the sake of change isn't always good. If you want a prime example of this, look no further than Nebraska. They needed to "modernize" their team so they fired a fairly successful coach and brought in Callahan and his West Coast Offense. Look at what the result was. Nebraska is now a fading power on its way to being surpassed by former Big 12 North Cupcakes like Missouri and Kansas.
Only pure arrogance could keep Michigan fans from the thinking that the same couldn't happen to them as well. I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm just saying that it COULD happen. Change isn't always what it is cracked up to be. Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
(Message edited by el_jimbo on December 17, 2007)
(Message edited by el_jimbo on December 17, 2007) |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 981
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:09 pm: | |
In the space of eight months or so, U of M will have paid $5.5 MILLION in buyout money to West Virginia University in order to hire WVU's basketball and football coaches. That is an obscene indictment of how far Div. I sports, football especially, has strayed from conducting athletic programs for student athletes. Another obscenity, (that U of M shares with a couple of dozen other Div I schools replacing their football coaches right about now) is U of M's failure to seriously consider hiring a black coach.
(Message edited by swingline on December 17, 2007) |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 258
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:10 pm: | |
quote: It is rather amusing that state patrons are so threatened by UM. By all credible accts Rodriguez is great hire
I think its more bemusement than feeling threatened. The ridiculous media and fan fawning over this guy is what has MSU people commenting (at least this one)...considering his name wasn't even brought up until the day he was interviewed and hired. Also the apparent abandonment of UM's institutional integrity in poaching a coach from his ALMA MATER weeks before its biggest Bowl game and not even getting AD permission to speak with him prior to poaching him. I thought that sort of underhanded dealing was beneath the vaunted Michigan? Word out of AA was Carr didn't want Miles because of some rumors about dirty recruiting... yet Rod's behavior is totally acceptable? I just don't get it.
Anyway, if he is such a "great hire" why wasn't he first choice? Why screw around with talking (or not talking) to Miles while this amazing coach is out there? Why try to poach Schiano from Rutgers? He did actually accept the job...before retracting. Remember?
Face it, this is the best UM could get. By all credible accounts he was the third choice... the relentless attempts to spin it as some sort of coaching hire coup just makes UM look silly. Not saying he is a bad coach or an awful hire, but could we hold off on building a "Rodriguez" annex to Schembechler hall for a few seasons?
If MSU had conducted this messed up search, ended up with Rod, and tried to spin it like UM (and a local media market made up of slappies) is attempting to, you would all be rolling in the aisles.
From the Freep:
quote:When Rich Rodriguez stepped to the microphone in Ann Arbor this morning, wearing a block M lapel pin, the highly successful college coach transformed from a West Virginia Man to a Michigan Man.
C'mon? Seriously?
quote:That greedy, no loyalty coach you're disparaging was also responsible for your 30-year high point when you had 10 wins.
And as soon as he hit that point (actually before because he, like Rod, hightailed it out before the bowl game) he used to get a pay day elsewhere. that lead to Bobby Williams and JLS. Yet you seem to say that MSU fans are not justified in disliking Saban?
It will be interesting to watch the next few years at Michigan. I'll bet you'll be looking for another coach sooner than everyone is willing to admit. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 446
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
Swingline,
In Michigan's defense, they did hire a minority. Rodriguez isn't exactly a white name there. It's not like they hired Honkey McCracker or anything. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2793
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
You poor MSU slobs are so damned trasnparent.......the fact is that MSU and UM football are in different galaxies. And that is something you have a very hard time accepting.
If you are lucky Dantonio will lead state to better days........if you are lucky.
Btw I am not some rabid fan. But facts are facts and the fact is the two programs are on different planes. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3049
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:23 pm: | |
"Another obscenity, is U of M's failure to seriously consider hiring a black coach."
Since when is Ron English white? Know what you're talking about before you run your mouth. English was interviewed and he wasn't hired because he was unworthy of this position, nor was DeBord.
Luckily for the rest of us Michigan was considering ability in selecting a head coach instead of arbitrary factors like race. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4187
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:29 pm: | |
Exactly, CL.
I don't know if Jimbo is just lost in a haze of hatred here or if he's stupid, but when did I call RichRod the next Bo? On this issue that he brought up re: bringing a coach from outside the system, I couldn't help but mention that Bo, who started the 40-year coaching family at UM, was an outsider. That's it.
It has to start someplace. Sure in 1969 Michigan was a lot worse off than it is now, but we couldn't beat OSU, we couldn't contend at a high level, and honestly that's how it's been here the last 4 years. Somebody needs to come and wake us up, and it doesn't really matter what some Spartan who will inevitably be beaten again and again thinks of our situation. |
Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 843
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:30 pm: | |
I love how Michigan fans throw the 'Michigan Man" thing around like Bo/Mo/LLLLoyd was a grand coaching tradition. 3 deep is nothing...
Dantonio coached under Saban, who coached under Perles, who played for Duffy, who coached under Biggie.
Two schools with a respected history. UM's more recent, MSU's more a thing of history. It doesnt matter what school you like, they both have great history, and a bright future as rivals. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 447
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:39 pm: | |
damn...How big of a dick do you have to be that when people try to give you a compliment and kudos for what you've accomplished you come back with comments about those people being slobs and transparent?
I was TRYING to have a rational conversation about the hire and even try to keep it civil discussing the pros and the cons of the hire. Sadly, the only one of you who seemed capable of doing so was KenP.
Citylover,
Why do you feel the need to compare MSU to UofM in a thread that is supposed to be about Michigan's new hire. Notice how I've only brought up MSU when other posters have brought it up first or if I was trying to make a point. I'm not arguing the fact that Michigan football has been more successful than Michigan State football. The proof is right there. Still, does that mean we don't have the right to comment on Michigan football?
So to sum up a few things.
City Lover,
Dantonio WILL lead Michigan State to better days. Mark it down.
Mackinaw,
Nick Saban was a traitor who could have built a power at MSU. He's the most talented coach MSU has had since Duffy Daugherty. We could have been great under him. Unfortunately, the only thing he's loyal to that's green is money so he bailed and left us with nothing. One year of greatness isn't worth the misery the aftermath of him leaving created.
Also, your information is wrong. Our "30 year high point" was when Perles took us to the Rose Bowl in 1988.
The Jesus,
Your "college sports spectrum" is drastically skewed from that of the general public. In terms of revenue, ratings, and overall interest, men's basketball is the second most important college sport behind football. The Breslin Center holds over 10,000 fans for men's basketball games and is considered one of the most intimidating environments in college basketball. Crisler doesn't even get a fraction of that attendance.
For the record, we also have other teams we get excited for. Most notably our defending national champion men's hockey team and our women's basketball team.
To all three of you,
piss off |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 259
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:41 pm: | |
TJ- C'mon, he said "seriously consider". English's and Debord's interviews were a courtesy. There would have been riots if either were hired. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 448
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:47 pm: | |
Mackinaw,
Hatred? You've been nothing but condescending towards my remarks since you started posting in this thread? I, as I stated before, was trying to have a civil discussion about this. You apparently seemed uninterested in doing so as well. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3050
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:51 pm: | |
"TJ- C'mon, he said "seriously consider". English's and Debord's interviews were a courtesy. There would have been riots if either were hired."
Yes, but you don't go and seriously consider a coach simply because of their race...you seriously consider them because of their ability, and neither English nor DeBord have that ability |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 449
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:54 pm: | |
TJ,
Then why bother interviewing English if he's not a serious candidate? If you interview a minority simply for the PR purposes and not because you actually consider that person a candidate, then you are making a mockery of the whole system.
I say this not because it is Michigan. Any team who did that would not be doing the right thing. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3051
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:55 pm: | |
"To all three of you, piss off"
sounds like Jimbo took his ball and went home
it's all just playful smack talk, all in good fun |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 450
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:57 pm: | |
still here. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3053
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:58 pm: | |
"Then why bother interviewing English if he's not a serious candidate? If you interview a minority simply for the PR purposes and not because you actually consider that person a candidate,"
I don;t think Michigan saw him as a minority candidate...I think YOU see him as a minority candidate...
Michigan saw him as an defensive coordinator who had earned the right to interview for the position...just like DeBord...and neither got the job because someone else was more worthy |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 451
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
Tj,
Is your name Mitch Albom? You sure try to put a spin on anything related to Michigan. Nice attempt (failed by the way) at trying to turn the accusation around onto me. Remember, you are the one who stated that English and DeBord don't have the ability. If they don't have the ability, why did they get interviewed?
(Message edited by el_jimbo on December 17, 2007) |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3054
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:09 pm: | |
"If they don't have the ability, why did they get interviewed?"
because all things are relative...they don't have the ability (nor the experience) that Rodriguez has, so there is absolutely no justification for hiring either one of them over him, regardless of whether some people think skin color is more important than coaching ability
now, relative to someone like you, they are both coaching geniuses, and if a coach the caliber of Rodriguez wasn't willing to take the job, then either one of them might have been the next head coach of Michigan...
I thought this much was self explanatory... |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 260
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
TJ- Are we still talking about the same UofM? I'm thinking of the one in Ann Arbor. The one with the President who stood on the university steps and declared "the University of Michigan is Diversity!"
I think they have gotten a pass on that issue. I absolutely don't believe "diversity" should trump qualifications, yet AA is willing to go up to the supreme court on its admissions policies under the theory that it does count more...sometimes. However, not a peep during this entire process?
Didn't the Lions get fined during the hiring of Marriucci for not interviewing a diverse candidate? Shouldn't UM, a school dedicated to diversity, get a little heat for doing pretty much the same? Or is Rodriguez (a guy of Hispanic descent who grew up middle class in West Va) diversity enough? |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 452
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
Then why did you imply that neither coach deserved serious consideration when you said, "Yes, but you don't go and seriously consider a coach simply because of their race...you seriously consider them because of their ability, and neither English nor DeBord have that ability"?
Once again, why would you interview someone who you aren't seriously considering as a potential hire?
Also, Rodriguez played absolutely zero factor in whether or not DeBord and English got interviewed or not. Remember that at the time of their interviews, it was pretty much considered a done deal that Les Miles was going to be the next head coach.
On another note, watch your mouth with the "someone like you" comments. There is no need to be condescending. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3056
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:25 pm: | |
Because by using the phrase "seriously consider" it sounded like the poster was actually complaining that they didn't hire a black coach, even though they interviewed one, to which my response was that the one they interviewed was simply not a better candidate than the guy they hired
now if you're going to use the term to ask why they would interview a candidate that they wouldn't hire, the answer to you question lies in my post 3054
this isn't really that complicated I don't feel like wasting any more time on explaining it to you than I already have... |