 
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10992
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:20 am: |    |
quote:Historically, Black people are whiners, who cling to the past and use every excuse they can come up with to hold a march or a protest. We have also learned that we were assholes in the taking of this country from the Indians
We have learned that we cant count on France, although we have helped them a bit.
We have learned that salvery is wrong
Some of us are in the process of learning what an idiot Bush is, wreaking our reputation, putting us deeper in debt, killing so many people.
We are learning that our open boarder, come one come all poilicy has got to be changed.....I can go on and on........while Black people stay stagnant, while J Jackson and retard Sharpton rally Blacks against the stupidest things, all to keep the old *whites keep blacks down* concept alvie...casue without that they have nothing.
Anyone want to join me in donating money to a fund for Cleo's education. I'll start by contributing the first $10.
I should respond to the stupidity but I can only feel pity for her. |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:45 am: | |
Black Power has never led to the systematic destruction of White People. White Power has always led to the systematic destruction of Black people.
MissMich, I don't even know where to begin...Hopefully you are not in a place of power in Michigan. |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 475
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
Maybe you should google "zebra murders." |
Fmstack
Member
Username: Fmstack
Post Number: 23
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
Dds, the Black Power movement and the Nation of Islam aren't remotely the same thing. Talking about NOI-affiliated serial killers in this context is like saying that all Christians are like the White Church of the Creator nutballs out in Idaho. Or, for that matter, saying that everyone on detroityes is just like Miss Cleo.
(Message edited by fmstack on December 12, 2007) |
Pamequus
Member
Username: Pamequus
Post Number: 137
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:13 pm: | |
Just an observation....
When I read the title of this thread "Signs of racial differences still alive" my first thought was "Yes, of course they are, black folks won't let them go". I've since read the various posts and have found nothing at all to change my first impression. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1468
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
it's not easy to let something go when it keeps slapping you upside your head. |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
Dds,
I used the word "systemic" for a reason. Incidents and systems are different.
Pamequus, are you saying that there are only racial differences because Black folks make it so, and because they won't let go of the past? If that is the case, I assume you are saying they are inferior, therefore the great disparities in income levels, etc. If you are experiencing the disparate end of the "signs of racial differences", you may have a different perspective.
Finally, I find a lot of Michiganders of Euro descent want to have it both ways. They say that disparities are the fault of poor folk, or black folk, or whoever. Yet they get offended, or don't understand, when it is pointed out that such logic means there are "inferior" and "superior" people. If there are no differences then everyone should be at the same level! Systems are real. Individual racism may be going down (and I would argue "may" be), but systemic, institutional structures still work against the poor, people of color, etc.
All these answers are not clear cut, even mine (ha), but there are some overarching issues that we rarely get to in Michigan. Another two cents in.... |
Foxyscholar
Member
Username: Foxyscholar
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:47 pm: | |
Thank you, The_ed:
Or when you're the ONLY ONE in your office. Or I can count on one hand the number of Black teachers I had in college. This is my 13th year in postsecondary education (and I went to Wayne State for TWO of the three degrees I have).
Or when you're the ONLY Black person on an airplane and the White male sitting across the aisle says "Wow, so this is what it feels like sitting on the back of the bus". (That happened to me last month when I went to Louisville, KY for an academic conference).
I know there's more but I usually have to block them out of my mind to maintain my mental, emotional, and physical health.
And I'm a female. I can barely imagine what my male counterparts experience. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1471
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
For a long time I was the only black person in my department at work. There were beer bashes, birthday parties,
afterwork get-togethers, etc, etc,... that took place, that I found out about after the fact. When folks around here
have a birthday, there's always balloons and a cake. When I have a birthday all I get is work to do. Sound like I'm complaining??? Not at all. I have 34 years here and I plan to retire next year, unless they fire me first, which is what it seems like they are trying to do. I have the most seniority in the whole building and the powers-that-be have made it clear
that it's not going to be easy to stick around. |
Detroitinmyheart
Member
Username: Detroitinmyheart
Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
Foxy not to argue your point because from one aspect what you say is true,but you do realize that blacks are only 12 percent of the pop.?
Right?
Now Im not saying that the racism doesn't exist we all know it does but I think your argument about numbers is a little out of whack.
Black Americans are a small percentage of this country . You can't possibly expect to see 50 percent black faces where ever you go do you?
Especially when people tend to live amongst their own. |
Foxyscholar
Member
Username: Foxyscholar
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:01 pm: | |
Yes, DIMH, I'm aware of the population percentage but in many situations, critical mass has not been attained in part, due to systemic racism...and what Pmb said...EXACTLY what Pmb said. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 579
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:01 pm: | |
FS - re: "Racial Situations..." yep, I've read it. Got an underlined copy on my shelf. Welcome aboard (btw - not your bro; I have no sisters).
Ed - you might be on the sh*t list for being black, and you might be on for reasons that are too painful to admit. Either way, it must stink. Good luck. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1473
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:04 pm: | |
the things they do to people around here is lower than whale shit. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 580
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
Don't know if I want to get into this so late in the day, but couldn't cultural artifacts also be holding some people down even as others are promoted by the same? Anyone else here not golf and thereby wonder if their opportunities are in part shaped by the decision. Everyone reads to their young children? Encourages their kids to follow specific career paths? |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 4:11 pm: | |
Wow, Craig, now you want to get deep. ha. Knowing I don't have all the answers, I would say, yes, "cultural artifacts" certainly make a difference. But where do they come from? Golf may come from either personal preference or income level. The other stuff you point out, a lot more shady.
Among other things, I lead a preschool in Detroit that serves mostly African American students. Our parents certainly read to their kids, and if they don't we stay on them until they do. Not sure how that compares with preschools of mostly Euro-Am students. My guess is our standards are on average higher because we know our kids are going to have it much harder, with more systemic obstacles and challenges, as they grow older. So do low expectations of parents and students come from "cultural artifacts," or the fact that the kids in our school will have to work 5 times as hard as their white counterparts to get to the same, or even a lower level? That is exhausting and will work against any of us in that position. Yes, a lot of people succeed anyway, but we have to look at the bigger picture.
I get pissed off that the kids I serve/teach will get socially, emotionally, physically beat back 5 times (or whatever) as much as the white kids. It wears me out, and I am a white teacher, not even someone living the experience! These kids are damn strong, but why should they have to work so much harder for less? |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
^^^^ Damn, I got preachy, didn't I?! Oops. |
Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 65
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 7:20 pm: | |
Missmich said: "while Black people stay stagnant"
The problem with this statement is that it includes all black people. Since you don't know me, how are you qualified to make that statement? I can say racism exists because it doesn't take all white people or all black people to support it for it to exist. It's like saying murder exists but that doesn't say ALL people murder. But folks like you who want to demonize an entire race of people for what you don't like about some members of the race are the true problem. This may be a shock so I'm happy to shock you but all blacks don't support Sharpton, Jackson, or Kilpatrick. You want to move forward then start attacking individuals and organizations you disagree with and stop trying to paint everyone in a group the same!
(Message edited by Crumbled_pavement on December 12, 2007) |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 581
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 8:59 pm: | |
I've been thinking in terms of artifacts that amount to self-imposed fetters. I'm too far removed to know if "study hard = 'acting white'" is real, but I've informally observed similar phenomena in various communities, black, white, and latin. The "voices" are different but the net effect is identical: folkways that destine "members" for futures far short of middle/upper class. My question is just this: are there individuals that screw up, or are there entire 'tribes' who are, metaphorically, breeding themselves to be ditch diggers?
The historical and comparative lack of social & economic constraints in the US would seem to predict ever-climbing vectors of mobility and achievement, and yet Appalachia and inner-city enclaves (among others) are still filled with 'dregs.' Is being 'white' enough to launch a kid from Brightmoor or Taylor out of the mud, or are there qualitative differences in home & sub-community?
Almost everyone can read (I think) but are differences in the way that stories are read by families of affluent blacks and PMB's students' parents? I'm thinking so. And how about sports: do golf and other leisure pursuits provide better access to 'the right people' than the ability to dribble & dunk? Again: yep.
This is just a hobby for me, so anyone with real expertise should set me straight. But I'm thinking that Marx was about 3% correct (f*ck him on the other 97, though) in that there are 'class' differences, and certain ways of life are simply better suited for rising.
What am I reading? Richard Dawkins, Seymour Lipset, and Hayek. |
Missnmich
Member
Username: Missnmich
Post Number: 631
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:33 am: | |
Disclaimer alert:
Missmich and missnmich are different posters.
Missmich does not represent the views of missnmich. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1570
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:47 am: | |
Craig said: What am I reading? Richard Dawkins, Seymour Lipset, and Hayek."
Hayek? Salma wrote a book?
Are there any pictures in it?  |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 593
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
I wish, Ed, I wish. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 4204
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:54 am: | |
I'm really sorry that Misscleo/Michigansnowflake chose a new screen name so similar to yours after her other two names were banned for blatant racism and hate.
What's that quote again Cleo? Oh yeah...
quote:Racist and proud. American would be a much nicer place if our ancestors hadnt been stupid and brought the slaves over. Now look at the whiney black shit we have to put up with all the time. *I was fired cause I'm black* No you were fired cause you are lazy.
Now I can add to my collection.
quote:Historically, Black people are whiners, who cling to the past and use every excuse they can come up with to hold a march or a protest. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 979
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 5:42 pm: | |
Pmb asked: quote:So do low expectations of parents and students come from "cultural artifacts," or the fact that the kids in our school will have to work 5 times as hard as their white counterparts to get to the same, or even a lower level? Many, but certainly not all minority kids face challenges that white kids easily avoid. But it is a false choice to posit that disadvantaged kids have to "work 5 times as hard as their white counterparts" to get anywhere or get anything. To make this assumption is just unproductive hyperbole. This kind of talk fuels the plaintive and visceral whining and complaining from the anti-affirmative action crowd. Whether it's a poor black kid at Cass Tech, or one attending Finney, or certainly the black doctor's kid at West Bloomfield, none of them has to work 5 times as hard as the white kid at Grosse Pointe South in order to pass AP World History. |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 152
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 7:09 pm: | |
quote:Disclaimer alert:
Missmich and missnmich are different posters.
Missmich does not represent the views of missnmich.
LOL good luck with that |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5379
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 8:07 pm: | |
quote: Many, but certainly not all minority kids face challenges that white kids easily avoid. But it is a false choice to posit that disadvantaged kids have to "work 5 times as hard as their white counterparts" to get anywhere or get anything. To make this assumption is just unproductive hyperbole.
BUllshit.... |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 153
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 8:43 pm: | |
Well look, I'm sure *some* minority kids have to "work 5 times as hard as their white counterparts" to get anywhere or get anything. But many don't have to. And that's why Swingline is correct. It is indeed just unproductive hyperbole.
Detroit_stylin, your reply of "BUllshit" makes it seem like you think this isn't some exaggeration. Do you think minority kids *always* have it harder? If you do think that, fine. But I disagree, and I think most others here do as well. Every case is different. The sad part is, you and others thinking the way you do only keeps the problem going- because as long as you keep blaming racism for lack of success, you'll still have lack of success. 1, because you aren't identifying and dealing with the true culprits, and 2, because you're so caught up on a false bogeyman.
One would think that by this day and age you'd have seen enough successful African Americans to realize that having black skin is not a real barrier to being successful.
Yes, racism exists, and yes it can hold you back a little. But so what? Really, so what? It's no different at all than bias against "fat" people, which holds some of them back in life as well. The point is, yeah, some people are discriminatory. Ok. So what are you gonna do about it? Complain and dwell on their discrimination? Or find a way to be so good that they can't hold you down? That right there is your key to success. |
Fmstack
Member
Username: Fmstack
Post Number: 25
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 9:50 pm: | |
The point is, yeah, some people are discriminatory. Ok. So what are you gonna do about it? Complain and dwell on their discrimination? Or find a way to be so good that they can't hold you down? That right there is your key to success.
Yup. And then the next step is to make sure that other people in your community, people who aren't the superstar you are, can get opportunities without having to fight past a wall of racism.
... which is to say, black power. |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 154
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 1:17 am: | |
quote:Yup. And then the next step is to make sure that other people in your community, people who aren't the superstar you are, can get opportunities without having to fight past a wall of racism.
... which is to say, black power.
No. If that's your attitude, then you're just part of the problem. If you see "a wall of racism", then you're stuck with the wool over your eyes. There's racism. But it's not a wall. It's more like a curtain, and it's only there sometimes, and anyone can move through it, if they do what it takes. Yes, such people need to be empowered. But instead of filling their heads with racial power ideas, teach them that they have unlimited power as individuals.
Anyway, I've said my piece on this thread a few times already. I'm not the one hurt by the thinking you espouse- you and your community are. So if you continue to think this way, it's only your loss.
No Black Power. No White Power. Yes Individual Power. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 315
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 7:54 am: | |
Racism goes around in a circle.
1. For decades, many whites mistreated blacks.
2. Many older-generation blacks still carry anger left over from the era pass it down to newer generations, or younger generations studying black plight spread it among their cliques, and you have people spreading reverse racism due to what people have done in decades/generations past.
3. White-on-black racism again, due largely as a result of reverse racism or race hustling.Whites are mad that blacks can overtly say racist things and in the white folks view, aren't as heavily scrutinized as when they say something anti-black. When they feel there is a double-standard, they feel like the pendulum is now swinging too far the other way and "black power" really means "taking over", and the less-educated whites feel they need to protect their race.
In this case, neither black nor white are correct.Hostility cannot cure hostility. It just adds to the existing problem. |
Romanized
Member
Username: Romanized
Post Number: 253
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:09 am: | |
Atwater pulleeasse. How the hell are you going to tell me about something I deal with everyday? Ya can't.
We don't exist in vacuums so the individual isn't all there is. The individual can act, but he can't expect his actions to be weighed and viewed fairly by other independent actors.
BTW, when you people actually start treating us like individuals wake me up and tell me. |
|