  Det_on_nation_365 Member Username: Det_on_nation_365 Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 |
An article in the Detroit Free Press reexamines the need to structure city council. I am in absolute favor of changing City Council to a district or ward system and I sincerely hope that other Detroiters would be in favor too. Any council member who truly has the best interest of the city in mind should also be in favor of creating better accountability to greaten the efficacy of their own work. Poor neighborhood representation has certainly helped to further decline and breed frustration of residents. It seems only obvious that greater accountability would be a great asset to enhancing the city’s success. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071216/OPINION01/712160563 (Message edited by Det_on_nation_365 on December 18, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11050 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm one Detroiter that would vote for a ward/disctrict system. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2153 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Several times before, there have been unsuccessful efforts to change the council's structure, including a 1996 referendum that was rejected by 56% of Detroit voters. It's time to try again." There must be some advantage to the way that it is set up now. Why would it have been set up this way in 1918 and then be voted to keep it in 1996? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3073 Registered: 06-2006 |
in theory it definitely sounds like a better system... but when I think about some of the characters sitting on CC currently, I'm terrified to think of what it would be like under a ward/district system | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 458 Registered: 12-2006 |
TJ, Could they be any worse than what they are now? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11057 Registered: 10-2003 |
They could be worse but it would cause a ward that votes for someone like Barbara Rose-Collins to have to deal with her more than the entire city being on the hook for her behaviour. | ||
Wanderinglady Member Username: Wanderinglady Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007 |
I don't live in Detroit anymore, so I can't vote for something like a ward/district system. However, I've lived in both Chicago (ward system) and Los Angeles (district system), and things seem to get done on the street level. This is especially true in Chicago, where there are 50 wards, so a smaller number of people are represented in each ward. When I lived in Chicago, I called the ward office about a problem I had with a city service. The alderman called me back the next day with a solution! However, the attitudes of the citizenry towards its elected officials seem to be different in Chicago compared to Detroit. Chicagoans have a long history of demanding that their aldermen and other elected officials address their needs, and seem to have a sense of empowerment. I never saw that when I lived in Detroit. The members of the city council seemed distant from the constituency. And ironically, our family lived down the street from a member of Detroit City Council. It seems that it's still the case even now in Detroit. A ward/district system, in order to be effect, would require a big change in the attitudes of both the city council and the citizenry. Detroit residents, in order to change the status quo, will have to develop the same sense of empowerment that Chicagoans enjoy. Of course, I say all this from California, where whatever does or does not happen with Detroit City Council wouldn't affect me directly. But I still have family in Detroit. Detroit is my home, and I still care deeply about what happens there! | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 778 Registered: 07-2007 |
I'm 100% for it. Someone needs to start a drive and get the petition ballots printed for the next election so the citizens can vote and decide for themselves. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3074 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Could they be any worse than what they are now?" yes, because the very fact that the current members of CC have their seats means that the people they defeated were even worse! under a ward system, however, those candidates who were so bad that they couldn't win over any of the clowns currently on the CC will have less competition since the current members of CC wouldn't be eligible to run is most of the districts | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 459 Registered: 12-2006 |
TJ, Just because the current members won doesn't mean that the ones that lost were any worse. It seems that too much of the CC election is based upon name recognition rather than talent. Look how inbred politics in general are in Detroit. It's not about who you are, it's about who you are related to. I think it would be better if unknown candidates would only have to run against one incumbent as opposed to 9. Even if the incumbents won, they would still have to move to the various districts in order to be eligible to run. I fail to see how a city-wide system is in any way advantageous to a ward system. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1500 Registered: 12-2004 |
While I think the merits of wards are greatly overstated by proponents, there might be some advantages to the ward system. It could create opportunities to mentor future leaders (something we need desperately) and it could foster a more open and democratic dialogue among city residents, which would hopefully result in their increased civic engagement and sense of accountability. | ||
Det_on_nation_365 Member Username: Det_on_nation_365 Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 |
I can’t say much about what happen in 1918 but in 1996 I do recall hearing a number of Detroit politicians using polarizing tactics to sway voters away from its approval. It was commonly implied that the proposal was a product of suburban (white) interest and intended to shift power away from Detroit’s black residents. At the time, many Detroiters were quite weary of Mayor Archer who was often perceived as a favorite amongst whites seeking to gain more power in the city. Despite some changes in the perceptions since 1996, I still feel the issue of race might be one of the biggest hurdle to overcome in restructuring city council. I know Detroit has had white council members like Maryann Mahaffey and Shelia Cockrell who both were able to remain popular figures in Detroit politics despite their skin color. But issue of race is still pervasive and skin color can prove to be quite a distraction to weary voters. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 460 Registered: 12-2006 |
Det on nation, the race issue with the ward system can't be denied. There is no question that a ward based system would feature one, if not two hispanics coming from the southwest side. That would definitely change the racial makeup of the council. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 484 Registered: 08-2007 |
El_Jimbo, yep, it seems that the folks in that part of the city can see beyond race. Steve Tobacman, a jewish guy who moved into the district - is their State Representative. He defeated incumbant Bela (sp) Garza in 2002. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3075 Registered: 06-2006 |
El_Jimbo: You make some good points...however, my response to your question remains the same... | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2013 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does anyone know offhand if any volunteer group is working on getting signatures for a ballot initiative? | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2014 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: There were reasons back in 1918, namely the old council wardsmen were prone to corruption to gain favors for their ward. Sometimes the cure is a lot worse than the disease, though... the current lack of neighborhood focus or any level of accountability is a MUCH bigger problem than any potential 1918-style corruption, IMO. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1691 Registered: 07-2004 |
Running for at-large council in three easy steps: 1.) Change your name. We recommend using an Africanized (but not Arabic-sounding) first name, and using the last name of a notable (and incumbent) politician or popular entertainer. Here are some ideas: FIRST NAME LAST NAME Malik Reeves Kofi Kilpatrick Kwame Cockrel Imani Conyers Jamal Kenyatta Tarik Collins 2.) Get on the ballot. All you need to do is hire the necessary lawyers and signature-collectors. Also, it may help to make significant donations to not-for-profit charities within the city, so you don't run into any "trouble." 3.) Plan your victory party. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2017 Registered: 11-2003 |
4.) Enjoy 20-30 years as an incumbent re-elected for several terms. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 485 Registered: 08-2007 |
In 1917 there were 21 wards, with two represtatives from each ward for a total of 42 aldermen. With so many fingers in the pie, it was difficult to tell which fingers were the stickiest. Also, the physical boundries of the wards were goofy beyond belief. check out: http://forum.skyscraperpage.co m/showthread.php?t=122681 In 2002 John Engler almost as able to force the issue onto the ballot, but his efforts were shot down by the Supreme Court. John rammed through the legislature a bill requiring that ANY city in the state of Michigan, with a population of 750,000 or more, and with a 9 member at-large CC, that those cities must put on the ballot the Ward system. John did get this law passed, but he didn't get it passed by a 2/3rds majority as required by the State Constitution. If you recall, John wasn't very popular back in '02. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2007 |
Any city, eh? Haha, yeah, 'cause Grand Rapids is just tinkering over 750,000...hahaha... | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 618 Registered: 06-2005 |
Detroitnerd, your "change your name" strategy has some merit; but I think the cause would be better served by changing one's first name to "Reverend." It sure worked for David Murray in his Board of Education campaign. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 486 Registered: 08-2007 |
This was typical Engler proceedural move. He was such a crafty bastard he knew all the rules, proceedures and processes like they flowed in his blood. The State Constitution says that the Legislature cannot pass any laws over any city in the state without a 2/3rds majority. I seem to remember that John came about 3 votes short of his goal. The kicker on this particular law was that the election was limited to 2002, and since no other city - other than Detroit - met the population requirement, the law's impact was limited to Detroit. In an odd turn, the ballots had already been printed so the question was presented to the voters, but the results were never counted. | ||
Det_on_nation_365 Member Username: Det_on_nation_365 Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 |
For me the severity of the issue relates mostly to the future improvement of neighborhoods. The current “at-large” system detracts focus away from neighborhoods and centralizes it in the downtown area. Detroit still harbors many business districts outside of downtown that ideally should be the concentric focus of their community. Every council member should be required to keep an office in the community. If council members do not want to invest time and money in Detroit's neighborhood business areas, how can they expect residents to? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1692 Registered: 07-2004 |
NeilR: Thanks for pointing out the oversight. The amended FAQ on running for at-large council will correct that omission! The Rev. Jamal Kenyatta? I'm SO there! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11065 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: A bit of a stretch. Here are the first names of our CC: Ken Monica JoAnn Sheila Barbara Kwame Alberta Martha Brenda Your statement applies for 1 of them. I agree that name recognition carries way too much weight in this city but the claims of first names is insulting and incorrect. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 487 Registered: 08-2007 |
One of the other reasons why Wards were dissolved in '17 was because it was felt that the recent immigrants would continue to develope their own power-bases within their close-knit neighborhoods. Keep in mind, the anti-german feelings were at an all time high, and at that time Detroit was almost 1/3rd German. The collection of germans on the east side, poles in poletown, irish in corktown, blacks in the valley, etc. Each of these ethnic groups fought for city services so, in a unique twist of unintended consequences, the move to at-large voting was a designed to force the feuding groups to get along. Simply put, we are - and have been - a city of tribes, and that tribal blood serves to still keep us apart. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11730 Registered: 10-2003 |
Everybody really needs to understand how the city council operates first of all. Most everybody thinks that by going to a ward system, each council member will be accountable for a certain portion of the city. These people seriously need to learn what exactly the city council's legal responsibilities are. Believe it or not, they ARE NOT responsible for most of your complaints. Those fall under the mayor's office and the city departments. While many council members will often go above and beyond what their job description entails, they ARE NOT obligated to do so. Without changing the city charter to require city council members to take on added responsibility, an at large system wouldn't change shit, except you'd loose your right to vote for the rest of the council. After realizing this myself a few years ago, I tend to feel that an at large system would NOT benefit Detroit. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 401 Registered: 09-2006 |
Im all in favor of the ward system. Detroit needs representation from all elements of its population. This straddles both ethnic and economic samples of the cities population. Presently it simply isnt so, it seems anymore we get more of the same type of new members sitting on council seats. The Ward system provides undeniable accountability to any council member and those that do not perform well in most cases will not last. Diversification on city council also provides different attitudes. We have only one way to go and this is up from what we have now, the behaviour and results from council currently is absolutely pathetic and useless. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3855 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sport is dead on correct. The only real effect that a ward system would have is that candidates would be more easily scrutinized on their voting record. With only 3 - 5 candidates to choose from in a primary vote, citizens would get to know the real candidate positions in depth and be able to weigh those against the voting pattern of any incumbents. Right now the sheer number of candidates creates a gigantic mess of a matrix to select candidates based on their record and their voting patterns. Last primary there some 100 candidates. I most likely over looked a couple quality candidates because I simply could not learn all 100 + candidates and their positions on key issues. Electing by ward will do nothing for city service delivery. That is not Council's job and having them wander far outside their roles creates havoc in already strained systems. Electing by wards eliminates a lot of noise and distraction and allows voters to select candidates on a much more informed basis. |
