Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Death by overwork in Japan - a story about Toyota Previous Next
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Vulke99
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Username: Vulke99

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.economist.com/world /asia/displaystory.cfm?story_i d=10329261

This is an interesting article about how Toyota works their employees to death. They don't pay for training or other stuff. They even have a word for it, "karoshi" - death by overwork.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3141
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting article, though the mods should probably move it to non-Detroit
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 245
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the naysayers on this forum can say what you want about the American auto industry and the unions, but that article only reinforces what I have been saying all along...

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 726
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny, our autoworkers suffer from deaths related to being overweight and getting no exercise.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1340
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 1:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The UAW's commitment to improve the lives of working men and women extends beyond our borders to encompass people around the globe.


Maybe they need to translate those words into Japanese?
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 246
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 1:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Funny, our autoworkers suffer from deaths related to being overweight and getting no exercise"

That is true, as it is true with many American workers NOT associated with the auto industry. The American autoworkers have excellent health benefits that give them the opportunity to better their health. That's only possible because of the diligent efforts of the UAW to protect their workers from tyrants like Toyota.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ They have every opportunity to better their health, yet a large majority doesn't. We all know someone who works for the big three who gets paid 35$ an hour to work for 45 minutes then take a 45 minute break...only to push a button when they actually work.

And buying american is no longer a viable slogan, considering that more "American" vehicles are assembled in mexico and canada than right here in the states. You have to go to Toyota and Honda to build in america most of the time.
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Pffft
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Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"More" American vehicles are assembled in Mexico and Canada? Why, because you say so?
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Ddaydave
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Username: Ddaydave

Post Number: 513
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D_mcc from everyone I talk to in the big 3 the days of working 45 minutes and getting a 45 minute break are long gone except in a few of the skilled trades
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ Then I retract my statement, but i don't necessarily believe that Toyota is working its employees to death. I am sure the UN and Human rights groups all around the world would be all over that.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 247
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have said it before and I will say it again...when you buy American (whether it's been assembled in Mexico, Canada, or bumf**k Egypt, the profits stay in America. When you buy Toyota, Honda, or whatever rice burner you want, the profits go overseas. Why do you think Michigan, specifically Detroit, is in the terrible fix it's in today? Consumers need to wake up and start thinking of where their next dollar is coming from, because the way it's going, there may not be that "next dollar". Start thinking of your own country and what we need to stay viable instead of just thinking of yourself and what's cheaper. Cheaper isn't always better. China is trying to poison us with everything they send over here, from toys to apple juice. Wake up America!

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1324
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Word.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 423
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dday-

Good point and quite true. Those days of wine and roses are all over.

Ba-

Things were in the terrible state that they were in because of the domestics inability to change with and, in fact, adapt to changing times. Fury makes excellent points on this very topic. Read his stuff for a different but accurate description.

The domestic auto companies' quality issues were quite well documented as well, particularly past the third year and beyond.

That appears to be slowly changing, and good on them for that. I will be purchasing a new Ford vehicle in a couple of days because I believe they are now as good, if not better, than their Asian counterparts, and because I don't want to contribute to the malaise that has affected most American consumers.

It is not only China, but many other third world foreign countries that have contributed to our demise. Most of the problem lies solely in the greed of the American consumer who refused to pay for quality but wanted cheaper and cheaper, which I believe lead directly to the situation today. I do agree with your one statement, where you say that "cheaper isn't always better". Toys and their toxicity are one small example of that, but I wonder in 30 years what the environmental impacts of Chinese and other third world type countries construction methods will have on the world's environment.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouthres, if you need X plan, I know someone who will give it to you.
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Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 426
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, E_d, but part of my buyout package in February from Ford entitled me to get A-plan rights for life. It is the one perk that I have used this year fully, as four of my relatives who were eligible have exercised it. I've sold more cars for them this year than I ever have in any one year, and it all happened after I left. I hope that shows that I don't have any animosity toward Ford, as I've always been accused by all of my friends of "bleeding Blue"!

I appreciate the offer, though!
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 485
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

When you buy Toyota, Honda, or whatever rice burner you want, the profits go overseas. Why do you think Michigan, specifically Detroit, is in the terrible fix it's in today?



Then why does the UAW endorse buying 13 different vehicles made by Japanese companies?

quote:

2008 VEHICLES BUILT BY UNION MEMBERS
IN THE UNITED STATES & CANADA


Support union jobs in
the U.S. and Canada

This guide is prepared by the UAW to provide information for consumers who want to purchase vehicles produced by workers who enjoy the benefits and protections of a union contract.

All these vehicles are made in the United States or Canada by members of the United Auto Workers (UAW), Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) or International Union of Electrical Workers-Communications Workers of America (IUE).


UAW CARS

Buick Lucerne
Cadillac CTS
Cadillac DTS
Cadillac STS
Cadillac XLR
Chevrolet Cobalt
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Hybrid
Chrysler Sebring
Dodge Avenger
Dodge Caliber
Dodge Viper
Ford Focus
Ford Mustang Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Mazda 6
Mercury Sable
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Mitsubishi Galant
Pontiac G5
Pontiac G6
Pontiac Solstice
Pontiac Vibe
Saturn Aura/Aura Hybrid
Saturn Sky
Toyota Corolla*

UAW PICKUPS

Chevrolet Colorado
Dodge Dakota
Dodge Ram Pickup*
Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Ford F-Series*
Ford Ranger GMC Canyon
Isuzu i-Series
Lincoln Mark LT
Mazda B-series
Mitsubishi Raider
Toyota Tacoma*

UAW SUVs/CUVs

Buick Enclave
Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Cadillac SRX
Chevrolet Suburban*
Chevrolet Tahoe/
Tahoe Hybrid
Chrysler Aspen
Dodge Durango
Dodge Nitro
Ford Escape/Escape Hybrid
Ford Expedition
Ford Explorer
Ford Taurus X
GMC Acadia
GMC Yukon/Yukon Hybrid GMC Yukon Denali
Hummer H1
Hummer H2
Hummer H3
Jeep Commander
Jeep Compass
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Liberty
Jeep Patriot
Jeep Wrangler
Lincoln Navigator
Mazda Tribute/Tribute Hybrid
Mercury Mariner/Mariner Hybrid
Mercury Mountaineer
Mitsubishi Endeavor
Saturn Outlook

UAW VANS

Ford E-series
Chevrolet Express Chevrolet Uplander
GMC Savana

CAW CARS

Buick Lacrosse
Chevrolet Impala
Chrysler 300
Dodge Challenger
Dodge Charger Ford Crown Victoria
Lincoln Town Car
Mercury Grand Marquis
Pontiac Grand Prix

CAW SUVs/CUVs

Chevrolet Equinox
Chrysler Pacifica
Dodge Magnum
Ford Edge Lincoln MKX
Pontiac Torrent
Suzuki XL7

UAW/CAW PICKUPS

Chevrolet Silverado* GMC Sierra*

UAW/CAW Vans

Chrysler Town & Country Dodge Caravan

IUE SUVs/CUVs

Chevrolet TrailBlazer
GMC Envoy
GMC Envoy Denali
Isuzu Ascender
Saab 9-7X



http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/aut o/2008/index.cfm
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 6735
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 1:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting stat indeed, Dds!
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Tk65
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Username: Tk65

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UAW/IUE means made in America. There are 71 American made vehicles on that list compared to 14 Canadian.

So I guess that means there are 58 other models of cars made in Mexico, since D_mcc said there is more cars made in Canada and Mexico than right here in the USA. Total unmitigated bullshit.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2433
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 2:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ford and GM are publicly traded companies. The profits (what profits? lol.) don't necessarily stay in America anymore than Toyota NA or Honda NA...
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Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 248
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What money stays in the U.S. and goes to each and every employee of the Big 3 in wages, benefits, pension, etc., is profit as far as I am concerned. Also, that doesn't necessarily mean just the auto companies...it includes all the other businesses, both large and small, that are dependent on the auto industry for their livlihood as well.

I have never known a UAW employee who worked for one of the Big 3 ever endorse a Toyota, Honda, or Mitsubishi.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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Alsodave
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Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 818
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 4:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what about the money that American workers (plants, car dealers, suppliers) get as far as wages, benefits, pension, etc? That stays in the U.S., doesn't it?
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 6741
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 12:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I have never known a UAW employee who worked for one of the Big 3 ever endorse a Toyota, Honda, or Mitsubishi."

I wonder what you would say to one of those UAW bretheren that builds one of those Japanese vehicles on that UAW list. Would you tell them not to buy one of the cars they built as well?
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Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 249
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 12:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a major problem with anyone from the U.S. purchasing a foreign automobile. I have a bigger problem with Americans purchasing foreign automobiles and then putting their "support our troops" emblems on the back. What hypocrites! I have an even bigger problem with UAW members purchasing automobiles other than the ones that they make themselves and whose company signs their paychecks. As far as I know, Toyota, Honda or Mitsubishi have never signed a paycheck for Chrysler, Ford or GM employees. If I am wrong then I am wrong.

If the profits from the sale of any automobile stays in the U.S. and U.S. employees or citizens reap the rewards it okay in my book. What I hate to see is U.S. citizens loosing jobs then homes because the U.S. automobile factories are closing shop because foreign sales are up. I can't be any clearer than that. As I have said, I never met any UAW worker that advocates purchasing Toyota, Honda or Mitsubishi.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!

I said this yesterday, say it today, and tomorrow. Of course, this may change if America is bought out by Japan or China...it's heading that way in the future. I may not have the RIGHT or ability to voice my opinions without sanctions. Hopefully that day won't come in my lifetime.

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