  Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 197 Registered: 05-2005 |
http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=1758721 2 All Things Considered discussing the drop of the Murder Rate in many major cities and how the citizens of Detroit don't hold the government responsible for inaction. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 856 Registered: 08-2005 |
Does anyone know what the murder tally is so far for this year? | ||
Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 198 Registered: 05-2005 |
Firejerryo is reporting 444 as of this weekend, but I know there was another killing or two during the holidays. | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 103 Registered: 04-2005 |
The choice for mayor was weak to begin with. The main problem is the failing auto industry, and double digit unemployment. I don't buy his assessment. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2007 |
Although the murder rate in Detroit fluctuates it has been anomalously high for 30-40 years, through good and bad times for the auto industry and low and high unemployment. While unemployment in the city itself is generally higher than in the region as a whole, I do not think I can accept the idea that the murder rate is primarily an economic phenomenon, although I wouldn't say that economics doesn't contribute. I would also only partly blame the government. There isn't any large or even middle-sized city in America that has been able to suppress the drug trade, and as far as I can tell, an awful lot of killings in the city are related to that business. A lot of the killings in Detroit (and everywhere) are domestic, and the police are unlikely to be able to prevent many of those. There also seems to be an attitude/culture/ethos among some groups in the city that makes firearms use more common among Detroit criminals than in many other large cities, and causes relatively minor incidents to end in shooting. I've seen lots of explanations for this, but I don't know which hold water. However, if in fact the Detroit police are too incompetent to implement the statistically based approaches that have worked to reduce crimes including homicide in other places, then I guess I would have to blame that on the government--who else would be responsible. Of course, that wouldn't only apply to the present city administration. I don't know if the Detroit Police have even attempted such an approach, so I don't know if they failed or if they just didn't try. (Message edited by mwilbert on December 26, 2007) | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2004 |
444 is an increase from last year isn't it? Looks like Detroit might get as many as NYC. Incredible. (Message edited by lombaowski on December 26, 2007) | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2004 |
Good point about the mayor not being held accountable for crime but that's been going on in Detroit for 35 years. Also a good point about the influence of black ministers in Chicago and in other cities. They are the most powerful constituency because of voting blocks. What kind of influence do black ministers have in Detroit compared to other cities? I don't know the answer, but I bet someone here does. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11162 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Welcome Mwilbert, but hey...that makes no damn sense whatsoever! You HAVE to directly blame the government for creating a black market for substances that will be consumed by individuals no matter what laws are passed. These are personal-choice issues, and many make those choices every day to partake. (Every one of 'em has their reasons, and I don't think a one of us doesn't do something to reduce the stresses of life, some just do illegal substances because they work for them...surely if anything legal would do they would be doing that instead!) They supposedly learned back in the Prohibition era that the MOMENT you make the substances legal again, the violence goes away. BTW, Detroit led the way with violence back then, too. The Purple Gang introduced the automatic weapon to gang warfare...and were reportedly hired by the biggest gangster of the era to make a statement one Valentine's Day. | ||
Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 199 Registered: 05-2005 |
The DPD website has a link to Comstat. I checked it and it has not been updated since 2005. http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/po lice/default.htm | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2007 |
"You HAVE to directly blame the government for creating a black market..." I thought we were talking about local government--certainly that is what the NPR piece was discussing. I personally think drug policy should be different than it is, but that isn't within the power of the city to accomplish. Detroit has to police itself with the reality of the drug laws as they are. But yes, I think it is almost certain that the city would be a better place if there were no laws prohibiting recreational drug use at all. I don't think that tradeoff is nearly as clear for the nation as a whole though--unfortunately many of the drawbacks of the current policy are concentrated among the poorer segments of society. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2670 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Rape, murder and theft have all been illegal for a lot longer than narcotics have. They haven't gone away either. Shall we blame the government for rape, murder and theft as well? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2671 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Gee. I wonder why they aren't updating it. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 728 Registered: 05-2005 |
The answer to the question of the thread is all too obvious: Detroiter's prefer high crime over low crime. You see, low crime requires 1)Policing 2)Community support of police. Two things that do not occur in Detroit. Big cities that have effectively reduced crime have implemented highly-effective PROACTIVE policing programs and their respective police departments receive a lot of support from the community. Not in Detroit. The police in Detroit are not allowed to be PROACTIVE. They are only allowed to be REACTIVE. The citizens of Detroit will not permit a PROACTIVE police department to exist. The mayor knows this, the City Council knows this, the Chief of Police and the entire Police Department knows this and most of all, CRIMINALS know this. The hands of police in Detroit are tied. Tied very tight. Police have to wait for a crime to occur and then respond to it, rather than try to prevent it in the first place. You cannot reduce crime with a REACTIVE police force. It will NEVER happen. NEVER. Add to that the fact the the community is outright hostile to the police and you have what we have - consistently the highest crime rate in the history of the western world. Yes, Detroiters prefer to be beaten, raped, robbed and murdered in record numbers each and every year, rather than have an effective policing. Insane, but true. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 254 Registered: 02-2005 |
"Rape, murder and theft have all been illegal for a lot longer than narcotics have. They haven't gone away either. Shall we blame the government for rape, murder and theft as well?" These are crimes against other people, not one's own body. Plain and simple, the drug war must end to stop the violence. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 325 Registered: 06-2007 |
You wonder why the population keeps dropping? The city has its head in the sand. They have a crime problem and "address" it with LAYOFFS. So many people are leaving not because of disloyalty. It's because of 2 things. 1) better schools. 2) They want to live someplace where police are present. Criminals know they can get away with a lot when the police are shortstaffed. Eight times out of ten The police response will be delayed too long to catch the guy breaking into your garage. in many suburbs,even if they don't get there in time, they'll have the resources to investigate, up to and including canines tracking the scent. They need to quit wasting money and redirect more of it to the police department. Notably, in hiring more officers to decrease response time and increase overall presence.It's easy to be a criminal when theres such a slim chance of anyone in authority seeing you or having the time to do anything in between all the priority calls stacked up. Anyone who has problems with a proactive force has issues in other areas, too. They have too much denial and are too cursed with the "It's never my fault, someones trying to screw us over" affliction. Also known as "new orleans syndrome". Would I want to live in Detroit? There indeed are neighborhoods I would love to call home.But I will never move there so long as the police department is underfunded and understaffed. I just do not feel that my property is properly protected by the tax dollars. And trust me, I'm not alone. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2676 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Except that the violence was happened before drugs were made illegal, which is why they were made illegal in the first place. Your argument is the logical equivalent of saying that puddles cause the sky to rain. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 255 Registered: 02-2005 |
Your argument is the equivalent of saying let's make alcohol illegal again since it incites drunks to fight. As we know, crime skyrocketed with the prohibition of alcohol, then came back down after it ended. Black markets generate violence, not the other way around. | ||
Tigers2005 Member Username: Tigers2005 Post Number: 174 Registered: 02-2005 |
It would be great if our murder rate ever got down to the rate in New York. I believe the rate there is somewhere around 8 per 100k people. At that rate, Detroit would have only around 75 per year. The rate in Detroit is around 50 per 100k. | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2003 |
Champagne don't make me crazy, Cocaine don't make me lazy, Ain't nobody's business but my own. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2680 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: I've spent a lot of time in bars and rarely have I ever seen a fight. In fact, I've seen more fights in libraries than I have in bars. On the other hand, I've seen lots of cases where some crack head steals one thing or another in order to buy more crack. You don't get that with alcohol. Add that to the shootings between dealers - which you don't see between bar owners - and the inevitable conclusion is that narcotics are nothing like alcohol. | ||
Evelyn Member Username: Evelyn Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2005 |
I need to start hanging out in these libraries! |
