Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox says Illegal immigrants can't get Michigan licenses « Previous Next »
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1651
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I couldn't have said it better myself, Barnes but I'll give it a shot anyway.


I have no problem with fines on employers, or building a wall. Hell build five or six. Add a moat if it makes you feel safer. Also, I support a revision of the immigration process, an expanded migrant worker program and a heavy fine for those that broke the law. Those people who broke the law to get here should also be immediately mandated to file paper work for citizenship.

The thing I don't agree with is the further dissemination of lies, and malicious propaganda against a group of people that, for the most part, only want to better themselves and their families. Some people here don't care about solutions to what they perceive as a problem, but only want to continue the lies and hate.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 276
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's like bitching about people selling drugs, while enjoying a line of coke now and then."

What an asinine thing to say.

Businesses that employ illegals should be targeted with fines... I've never said different.

I have never called illegals "invaders", but if the shoe fits....

"The thing I don't agree with is the further dissemination of lies, and malicious propaganda against a group of people that, for the most part, only want to better themselves and their families. Some people here don't care about solutions to what they perceive as a problem, but only want to continue the lies and hate."

I will say it again, ILLEGAL VS. LEGAL, what part of those words don't you two understand?

If you want to come to America to live or work , then go through the proper channels. Get the proper documents to be here LEGALLY, become an American citizen. Work, live your life, prosper, have families, get educated, speak English, don't expect the U.S. to bow down to you, conform to America.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 252
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

""He supports the invasion of our country by foreign people"
I love it when the nativists forget where THEIR ancestors came from!
You may want to study history. The invasion of our country by "foreign people" made our country what it is!
One of my ancestors was on an early boatload of "foreign people", a boat called the Mayflower. He came without a visa.
Another of my ancestors was part of a tribe that had their land by "foreigners" who came here and created their own laws and papers and started calling themselves "Americans"."

Sorry Barnes......... while I appreciate the props for my previous real world example, I have to counter the quoted post with some more real world logic. First...... this elevator is full. What I mean is, everyone who came here decades upon decades ago DID NOT require a visa at that time. Our country was growing and needed people to form a culture. Those ancestors pushed the button, waited in line and filed onboard the elevator to begin moving up. Now the lines are pulsing with people. There are not enough elevators. People have begun running up the stairs unabated. It is creating internal strife within the country and hate towards the people who are cheating the lines. Our laws have changed to require documentation, which is different from when the MAYFLOWER sailed over. Times change, laws change... blah blah blah. I think you will understand the difference here. But even more so...... (and not to rant) there are many challenges facing the world as of now. Globalization, global warming, terrorism, oil dependancy, population control....... population control..... one more time...... population control. After many in depth chats with co workers, friends and family... many of us have come to the conclusion that population control is by far going to be the #1 issue faced by the Human Race in the upcoming decades/centuries. It is out control in Africa, Mexico and China. Do you disagree???? As the population continues to double faster and faster....

http://geography.about.com/od/ obtainpopulationdata/a/worldpo pulation.htm (for what it's worth)

...our civilization IS going to deplete its resources. Certain countries and continents (aforementioned and more) continue to reproduce at a tremendous rate and nobody does anything about it. These population spikes are huge contributors to economical decline and resource depletion. Now before you cry "CHINA", just think about the house of cards china has built their economy on which spits out unsafe toys and erodes the environment. Their economy is built for growth and not stability. Furthermore, I honestly think they are just a blip. Shitty, cheap products and services will get you only so far.

Getting back to topic, this overflow of population has forced the Mexican population to seek alternative safe nesting away from the 1 in 10 shot of making a living, which conveniently happens to be adjacently north. Mexico continues to spit out babies unchecked into a sub-par economy only to have them seek out and pollute our economy. The U.S did not ask for this population crisis "run-off" but we are getting it. It is diluting our economy at a rate where the general population has taken notice and spoken. Do you deny the national attention? Is the majority of our nation mis-informed? There are problems, but no politician wants to touch it because it could spell political disaster. Mexico does not want to deal with their economic problems. They are content with the evening out of our two countries. It builds leverage for them to compete and grow as our economy comes crashing down to their level.

And for your Native American heritage, that is nice and all, but do you really think if Columbus and his Mayflower posse didn't decide the world was round, would your Native American tribes still be ruling North America? I didn't think so. That land changing hands, my debatable friend, was inevitable. So until Mexico decides that they need to deal with their population control, we are going to seal the staircase. The elevators are for people in line. Anyone else needs to move to the back of the line and wait. We definitely have spots for those people working here illegally, it's just not up to them. It is up to the citizens of this country where and when those new, up and coming - potential citizens belong here. (I candy coated that last sentence for you lefties)

Questions / Comments ??

oh and sorry for the long post. Your quote took up some room too.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4704
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Open borders and a welfare system cannot coexist and sustain themselves. Regardless of whatever thoughtless folk on DY try to rationalize.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4633
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"we are going to seal the staircase."

You folks keep saying that. How? Are you going to form a human chain? Build a Vulcan Force Field?

The southern border of the US is bigger than a staircase. They've been trying to seal if for years. If you've noticed it's not working.

"That land changing hands, my debatable friend, was inevitable".

On this we agree: Migration and the land changing hands is a historical constant.

Some people have always tried to stop it.

The folks in Eastern Europe succeeded in slowing it only briefly. I crossed the Berlin Wall once. It lasted only a couple decades. It seemed very effective at the time, but it was manned by forced labor- 19 year old conscripts.

The migration and changing of land ownership seems to have slowed in parts of Detroit too. The prairies of the East Side come to mind.

Good luck trying to control human movement at a time of unprecedented migration.

Good luck trying to "control" population.

You will fail.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 253
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Either we control population or nature will. It is, once again, inevitable.

And the borders will be secured. You fail to rely upon democracy. Once 51% of the nation says "seal that border" you can bet that politicians will be pushing and shoving their way to SW USA with tools from their very own garages. Its and polls thing. It is gaining steam and will be dealt with by the next leader of this country. Take Hillary for instance, once she overhears a movement going on, she sees the opportunity to gain votes. It is how every politician operates these days. Not what's in the best interest of the country, but what's in the best interest for their political tenure.

"You folks keep saying that. How? Are you going to form a human chain? Build a Vulcan Force Field?"

Yes. Thought I'd acknowledge your silly comment. and don't deny that is was silly.... I will debate you on it!
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 834
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankfully, the sarcasm of people like barnes and Cheddar have put forth a bit of a challenge to the American people. They tout trespassing and reply with "nothing you can do about it". I don't know if you have noticed, but the issue is being talked about much in the upcoming presidential race. Americans are p'd off about it, Politicians are making it an key election issue and I think we can all expect some major changes in the way the US handles it's borders.

Good luck thinking the American people or Government doesn't care. Hope it pans out for you.

The very fact these two advocate trespassers into our country proves they have not assimilated and have zero respect for our nation's laws. Their loyalty is elsewhere. Shame on you for taking the oath to uphold our constitution.

Did you agree to this?:

The Oath of US Citizenship

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Sounds like you lied if you did..

(Message edited by sstashmoo on January 03, 2008)
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4363
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They tout trespassing and reply with "nothing you can do about it"."

Yes, maybe we should apply their logic to all issues of concern?

Nuclear proliferation? Well, there's nothing you can do about it so you are foolish and wrong to try.

Poverty? It will always exist, you are wrong for trying to reduce it. Same for crime.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4634
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I pointed out, SS, one of my ancestors was one of the first European trespassers...
What you call "trespassing" helped make the US what it is today.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 277
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the Letter to the Editor page of the Herald-Citizen, Cookeville, Tennessee.

"Daughter needs surgery -- and help

I am writing in regards to the policies of Cookeville Regional Hospital.

My daughter went to the ER twice, and the doctor recommended an ultrasound. She had it done, and it says she has numerous gallstones.

She has no insurance -- she falls into that bracket, I guess, of those who work but can't afford insurance or qualify for TennCare.

She needs surgery now, but no one will help her of course -- she's not an immigrant.

I have had employees at the hospital tell me that if she were Mexican they would do the surgery for free. Mexican babies are born every day at Cookeville Regional for free.

What's wrong with this picture?

My daughter is American, lives in America, and cannot get help. My daughter could die if her gallbladder bursts. What would you do?

I wonder if Americans living in Mexico could get welfare and free health care? I doubt it, don't you?"

Tell me barn and cheddar...what IS wrong with this picture? Would you have Americans passed over for illegals? The letter doesn't specify Illegals, it says immigrants, but I would bet if I talked to the letter writer, it would be ILLEGALS.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4635
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What's wrong with this picture?"

What's wrong with the picture? There is no picture. It's more BS that you found on the internet, like the lies you posted earlier.

"Nothing you can do about it"

Actually, Johnlodge, I've posted numerous suggestions about what you COULD do. (Besides posting on internet forums, that is). But nobody seems to think that they should be inconvenienced by being more selective in their food purchasing habits. And all of you have excuses about why you don't do agricultural work.

What I'm saying is that twenty years of border fortification has not changed the situation very much.
You COULD argue for placing the military along the border, and that would be perfectly legal.
I just happen to think that it's a waste of resources.


And of course, where's our military?
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 279
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tell the author of the letter that it's BS barne, I'm sure she'd love a reply from the likes of you or spongebob. Check out the paper, opinion page and see for yourself. I don't post lies, while you post useless suggestions.

If you can't see the point I am trying to make then you must have total tunnel vision and can't see the forest for the trees. You are narrow-minded and until this Illegal situation starts hitting YOU in the pocketbook it is useless to argue with you.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4636
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But you DO post lies. They were debunked earlier in the thread.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 281
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debunked by who....you and sponge? That's a laugh.
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1652
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you blind, dipshit? Every single "fact" you posted was was debunked if not proved to be an outright lie.

Notice that no nativists have put forward solutions, only bitching.
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1653
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, and 'Mo... I don't recall ever taking an "Oath Of Citizenship". When did you take it?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4367
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Actually, Johnlodge, I've posted numerous suggestions about what you COULD do. (Besides posting on internet forums, that is). But nobody seems to think that they should be inconvenienced by being more selective in their food purchasing habits. And all of you have excuses about why you don't do agricultural work. "

As has been put to you numerous times before, it is not the consumer's job to enforce STANDING immigration laws. We have laws and pay taxes for them to be enforced for that purpose. You put the blame/responsibility on the consumer, when all we want are for existing laws to be enforced properly. The burden is on you and those who believe what you are saying to do something to change the laws if you don't like them. While the laws stand, however, they should be enforced.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4368
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Notice that no nativists have put forward solutions, only bitching."

Heavy fines on employers caught using illegal immigrants.
Tighten border security.
Streamline the legal immigration process so that productive people who meet eligibility requirements can come here.

There you go.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 835
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "As I pointed out, SS, one of my ancestors was one of the first European trespassers..."

Did they have to cut a hole in a fence? dig a tunnel? Watch for border patrol? Hire a coyote? Travel by night? You know why? It was legal. I used to buy gas for 29 cents a gallon, you know why? That was the price. Keyword "Was". There used to be Indians around here too.

Barnes, you and your sidekick Cheddar have not made one valid point for your argument. Not one. You say the solution is we should drive around and patronize area road side produce stands. This is about the most preposterous nonsense I've ever read.

BA, thats enough to make one's blood boil. All the folks that don't have health insurance here and our tax dollars paying a hospital to treat someone whom isn't even a citizen. In the southwest that has totally bankrupted hospitals.

It's sorta like man encroaching on wildlife habitat. The more people that move south and west, the louder the voice is going to be to repair this problem. Predictions are Atlanta, Houston and LA are the major growth cities, right in the path of you-know-who.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 254
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Notice that no nativists have put forward solutions, only bitching."

Actually.... we said ship em' out, build a wall and then begin the process of naturalization. I think it has been said many times. About as many times as Cheeze_Whiz has said:

"What are you going to do about it?"

Yet, the only response I continue to hear is that someones' stats were wrong. Oh, and I should shop at some secluded market that doesn't exist. Oh, and I love your term "Nativists". Did you guys make that up, or did that swim across the Rio Grande as well?????
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 836
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JL, Agreed. Follow those simple guidelines, that is the fix.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1737
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For defenders of English, you guys sure don't crack a dictionary much ...
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 255
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nerd.....

who are you talking to? Me?

Indirect one liners are equivalent to disguised sarcasm. About as much contribution as a dart has to a balloon.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 837
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh are they giving away Pulitzer's here?
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1654
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Heavy fines on employers caught using illegal immigrants.
Tighten border security.
Streamline the legal immigration process so that productive people who meet eligibility requirements can come here.



I think Barnes and I have said that this sounds like a perfectly fine solution. I can't speak for him, but I don't have a problem with any of these points and have said as much.

quote:

Actually.... we said ship em' out


If this were so easy it would have already been done. It's not and I think it is damn near impossible.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1738
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TK, you said: Oh, and I love your term "Nativists".

I said: For defenders of English, you guys sure don't crack a dictionary much ...

The reason I said that is that the term is in the dictionary. But, that said, I don't think you should look in a dictionary. Why? Because the book is filled with linguistic immigrants, word that have come from all over the world: Japan (honcho), Bengal (bungalow), Iran (checkmate), India (shampoo), Niger (banjo), Latvia (sleazy), Madagascar (aye-aye), Siberia (parka), ancient Phoenicia (Bible), the Philipines (boondocks), Tonga (taboo), Senegal (chigger), Niger (impala), and, as you say, "across the Rio Grande" (buckaroo).

You'd be appalled -- just appalled -- at how corrupted our language is, and you'd get caught up in a return to the purity of total Anglo-Saxon.
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1655
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we should ship all those words back to where they came from.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1739
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for adding to the levity, CB. :-)
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Islandman
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Username: Islandman

Post Number: 1289
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If our government can't stop the amount of drugs coming into this country, how are they going to control immigration?

We supposedly have better monitoring of shipping and items entering this country because of 9-11, but I haven't heard any complaints about it being "dry" anywhere.

Tkshreve, to use your argument, even if 51% of the country doesn't want drugs coming into the country, they will still come in.

Point? People are making money from the drugs and the cheap labor.

American people are making money stretching the idea of capitalism (as it should be). But, the problem is that it is causing a black market of illegal cheap workers. It is not going away. Get used to it.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4638
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Heavy fines on employers caught using illegal immigrants."

Yes. Fines are fine!

Isn't it more effective and less costly to go after organizations with fixed addresses and bank accounts rather than attempting to track individuals with neither?

Tighten border security.


Yes but...they've been doing that for more than 20 years. They are still doing it. You tell me how well it's working.


Streamline the legal immigration process

Yes! People who are desperate for work are going to migrate to look for work. It's happening everywhere. The most ambitious people are not going to wait ten years for paperwork. It's human nature. But if Smithfield or Holly Farms won't hire them (because of heavy fines), they may not come.


"Did they have to cut a hole in a fence"?

No, Captain Winslow and company had to sail across a huge ocean, which had until that time been an effective border. Until one day it wasn't.
They set foot on what is now without US Soil without prior permission of the people that lived here. They showed up.
Kinda like what's happening today.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 256
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NERD: "The reason I said that is that the term is in the dictionary. But, that said, I don't think you should look in a dictionary. Why? Because the book is filled with linguistic immigrants, word that have come from all over the world: Japan (honcho), Bengal (bungalow), Iran (checkmate), India (shampoo), Niger (banjo), Latvia (sleazy), Madagascar (aye-aye), Siberia (parka), ancient Phoenicia (Bible), the Philipines (boondocks), Tonga (taboo), Senegal (chigger), Niger (impala), and, as you say, "across the Rio Grande" (buckaroo).

You'd be appalled -- just appalled -- at how corrupted our language is, and you'd get caught up in a return to the purity of total Anglo-Saxon."


Nerd,

Do you normally deflect issues and not contribute to debates? So I have never heard the word "Nativist" used constructively before reading this thread. Big whoop. Did it fall out of a tree? Did it live in a tree with hippies? Sounds like a PC version of "Loyalist" or "Patriot". In the meantime, I acknowledge and respect the fact that our language is derived from various other languages, which were derived from...... other languages. To insinuate I am to hard lined to accept that is trite and very small.

Nerd, you like to project your views and opinions via jabs, jokes, sarcasm and one liners. It is a meatless sandwich you serve that contributes..... not that much. Avoiding the raw conversation and throwing rocks from afar is tasteless and only mimics the useless bantering seen in Washington. You should save your short-speak talents for somewhere they make a difference like hot dog stands and elevators.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 840
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: The most ambitious people are not going to wait ten years for paperwork"

They will if they're made to. Again, we have no obligation to anyone.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 257
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ISLAND MAN: "Tkshreve, to use your argument, even if 51% of the country doesn't want drugs coming into the country, they will still come in.

Point? People are making money from the drugs and the cheap labor.

American people are making money stretching the idea of capitalism (as it should be). But, the problem is that it is causing a black market of illegal cheap workers. It is not going away. Get used to it."


Yes, but in actuality, show me a politician who has a viewpoint on drug smuggling that differs from "IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, AND IT DESTROYS OUR SOCIETY." Where all politicians work towards stemming drug trade, those very politicians are divided on the subject of immigration. I would assume 90+% of the American public doesn't want drugs coming in which is why politicians are so congruent on the subject. Now when discussing immigration (which is why were here, i think) those politicians tread very lightly until the majority of our country decides where it stands. Once that has been established, look for the politicians to become more defined on where they stand. It is one big puppet show. Meanwhile, until politicians decide to act (which they don't want to because they think it might go away or become accepted) the problem grows worse.

And all the illegal sympathizers who post here simply say the same things over and over.

"It's not going away."
"What are you doing about it"


What does that mean? Do you or do you not acknowledge the problem? Do you not believe in the "black market" of labor which harms all-american businesses? We (Nativists - thanks nerd) were asked to provide to you sympathizers what the US should do, or better yet what we would do? We answered.

Now I am asking, do you sympathizers acknowledge illegal immigration? Do you know it is hurting our country and its' citizens? Do you think something needs to be done? Why are you so passive about the issue? Do you not believe in borders? What do you suppose would happen if Mexico and the US combined economies? What are your solutions?
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5891
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about some kind of Statute of Limitations on this illegal bit. Some of these families are in the USA 10, 15, 20 years. Their children are born here, raised here, educated here, work here, contribute here. Some of the children were hauled in as infants.

Nobody condones illegal behavior, but when does there come a time when there's a path above ground? Even conservative hero, Ronald Reagan gave it up in the 1980s and found that path to citizenship in that generation.

When the top scholars of our public or private high schools can't get scholarships, grants, in-state tuition, etc. to college, there's something terribly wrong. Imagine if you came to USA as an infant,speak no foreign languages, and now told, you are in an economic caste system.

For crissakes, these people feed you, pick up your garbage, clean your toilets, and mow your lawns. Some are in professions, yet you call them, Deportees. There's something xenophobic about it, eh.

jjaba, son of Detroit, son of Immigrants!
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1742
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What? I thought it was pretty funny and somehow relevant too. :-)

Or would you rather I just mindlessly try butting heads with you all day? That's totally pointless. Nobody's changing any minds here. Might as well chuckle.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 282
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Nativism, an opposition to immigration which originated in United States politics.

2. xenophobic, an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

#1. I am not opposed to immigration if done legally.

#2. I do not fear or hate foreigners, some of my best friends are foreigners.

jjaba, you saying " these people feed you, pick up your garbage, clean your toilets, and mow your lawns. Some are in professions, yet you call them, Deportees." sounds as though you are implying that in some weird way, Americans should be thankful. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are not doing me any huge favors. If they don't do certain jobs, someone else will; preferably Americans or LEGAL immigrant Americans.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 836
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it's good to see states taking action, we all know our loser federal politicians won't do shit and love illegal crooks to help out the corporations and drive down wages.
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there is nothing wrong with immigration as long as it is done legally.

People make the argument that our country was built on immigrants. True. But the vast majority of our fore bearers came through places like Ellis Island, where they were PROCESSED and recorded, and yes, even them, some where turned back after crossing a great ocean.

America is a melting pot, but it is no longer the land of plenty. The economy is strapped for cash, largely due to poor management. Yet in times of economic strife, people look for a scapegoat. And when educated Americans are out of a job, because they are TOO qualified (yes, it happens, it happened to my father), and the job goes to someone of questionable legality, Americans tend to get frustrated and upset over the situation.

Something needs to be done, my mother is in the health care field, so I am aware that she knows first hand the DIRECT impact that illegal immigrants have on that particular sector.

People say that illegal immigration is not going away, which is won't, but like global warming, if actions are not taken soon enough, we will reach a tipping point and will be unable to hold back the tide of illegal workers who use the American dollar to feed their families beyond our border.

Open your eyes, and write your politicians, and ask them to serve you, the citizen, and make a difference if you feel so strongly about it.
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Thames
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Username: Thames

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! I was trying to read through all this but there is so much...I hope I'm not repeating a past post but here is my take: The immigration process includes a health screening that checks for diseases like HIV and TB. If you are found to have either, you are denied entry.

I read an article a few months ago about TB hot spots in the Carolinas where the poultry plants are located. The article stated the highest concentration of infected people were "foreign born" workers at the plant. That's means ILLEGAL. There is no way they'd be admitted with TB, even if the x-ray only showed scarring from a past infection.

I'm not implying that we don't accept the poor and the sick, however, there needs to be some control. We can accept the sick (when we know who they are) and take care of them. Without that control, disease spreads. Not good.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 283
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thames, welcome to this thread.

The same holds true in Monterey, Tennessee at a chicken processing plant. There are more non-English speaking people than you can count, the hospitals are full with pregnant women, HIV infected people; others with TB, etc. The only people who pay for the health costs are the American taxpayers.
Most of the illegals come from countries that don't have the same immunization guidelines that the U.S.A. has; therefore, many come into this country infected with viruses and illnesses that the U.S. has stamped out years ago. My question is, why would we accept into this country obviously sick people, and take care of them (at no cost to them, of course). Shouldn't the poor and the sick be taken care of in their own country? I think charity begins at home. I've seen too many elderly sick people not get the proper care because they can't afford medicines or equipment. Too many children are going hungry right under our noses and the government refuses to help...yet let an illegal come to the hospital and right away the doors are open, doctors are at their disposal, and treatment is forthcoming. That is not good, not right, and we need to stand up and start saying so.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 997
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D_mcc - welcome and thanks for a simple, concise post.
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Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 840
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i agree to the above.
immigrants MADE this country
now is different than 100 years ago, us needs to control it's country.

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