 
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 5:24 am: |    |
I know four people who have been laid off from Quicken in the last six months. Quicken is shedding jobs, so I wouldn't bet on an uber-size investment. As much as I'd love to see the Woodward Avenue Girder Farm sprout something, I'm not gonna lie: Having the Lafayette Building saved would be, in a word, amazing. Plus, all the Quicken folks could just step outside the door and get coneys. Everybody wins. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1082
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 5:26 am: | |
And just as a reminder of how pretty it could be:
http://i215.photobucket.com/al bums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/ Postcards/LafayetteBuilding.jp g |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 813
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 9:25 am: | |
Quote: "Why aren't you outraged? What do you mean "you'd have to question it?"
Exactly what I said. Just more of the same. Outraged? Nope, Upset? Nope, Surprised? Nope, Disappointed? Yes. Should the state step in an investigate possible misappropriation of funds and possible fraud? You bet. This whole thing just stinks of a scam. These boys aren't dumb. 1.5 million just got lost? Doesn't this sound familiar to anyone? |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1623
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 9:25 am: | |
Just remember that the garage is still getting the reinforcement to hold the building, and the company that was doing the Griswold still owns the air rights to build. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 9:26 am: | |
Yeah, and Visteon is still leasing out One Kennedy Square. |
Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3863
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:26 am: | |
quote:Statements like these ignore the actual cost of new hi-rise construction and imply that the developer was somehow trying to squeeze buyers for too much profit. But this is just not true. The costs per sq. ft. of the Griswold project are in line with, or even lower than that of existing downtown condos or those being built in cities like Minneapolis, Atlanta, Denver, Cleveland and Austin. The emerging downtown residential markets in these cities resemble the Detroit market in many ways. The overall poor real estate market in SE Michigan brought down this project, not some kind of greed or blunder by the developer.
Truer words were never posted here.
quote:Was it a partner in the deal, sharing not only the risks, but the upside? I doubt that very much.
Yes. The DDA was doing the job it was chartered to do and that is to bring capital and resources to transformative projects that cannot get conventional financing.
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of many here of the role a DDA plays. They are designed to use capital for risky or public infrastructure projects to jump start a very localized real estate market.
You may disagree with that concept from some free market philosophy and if so articulate your arguments. But to excortiate the DDA staff and directors for taking on risky projects when that is what they are chartered and directed to do is a little...well...sour grapes. Any DDA's function is to take steps to reverse severe real estate devaluation. You can't do that by playing by the same rules as conventional developers as they are not investing in the DDA area. DDAs must take on transformative projects that are loss leaders, are risky or are ignored by the traditional development market. To call people idiots for doing their job shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the DDA.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bokw0455qhw1d5zl0gtvdwme))/ mileg.aspx?page=GetMCLDocument &objectname=mcl-Act-197-of-197 5&version=txt |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2477
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:08 pm: | |
Well, maybe the failure of the Griswold condos is fate's way of getting back at folks for bailing out on the original Lafayette Building deal. Remember that the Lafayette was going to have condos and its residents were going to use the Griswold parking structure along with the residents and guests of the Book Cadillac. Once the Griswold condos were announced, I knew that that announcement would end any chance of the Lafayette having condos. Oh well, that's what shortsightedness can do to people. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:20 pm: | |
In point of fact, Visteon IS still leasing out half of Kennedy Square. Their sublease supported the attraction of 4 other suburban or partially suburban companies to the building (which is now fully occupied). That project is an example of the DDA making a calculated, and ultimately correct, decision to support the market in the face of nay-sayers. Their support of the Griswold is another. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1275
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:23 pm: | |
Scruffy, my point was if Visteon didn't happen, The Griswold isn't happening unless a major corporation bigger than Quicken moved down there or if we had more attractions. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1624
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:41 pm: | |
Let's see who else Dan Gilbert brings with him downtown as part of the Quicken move. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:56 pm: | |
I appreciate the clarification, but I'm not sure I agree. There is strong demand for the Griswold and projects like it, even in our dampened real estate market. The Griswold's pre-sales, while lower than the DDA or the developer wanted to see right at this moment, still represented nearly a quarter of the project's total requirements without a single piece of pre-cast yet on site. Their buyers in process represented over half the project. The only real problem with that project right now is one of timing. The deck itself needs to be completed by mid-year for the Book's needs, but ideally the Griswold would move a bit more slowly to allow for further absorbtion in '08. Unfortunately, given the logistics of the site, you either build it now when the deck is going up, or later (as in a year from now) after the deck is operational. The DDA wasn't prepared to proceed right at this moment. They made a prudent decision from their perspective, but not a permanent one.
The article in yesterday's News did this entire matter a great injustice. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6923
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 4:38 pm: | |
If the DDA propose some luxury apartment living. Than they don't have to waste some investment dollars. |
Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3864
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 7:56 pm: | |
quote:Well, maybe the failure of the Griswold condos is fate's way of getting back at folks for bailing out on the original Lafayette Building deal. Remember that the Lafayette was going to have condos and its residents were going to use the Griswold parking structure along with the residents and guests of the Book Cadillac. Once the Griswold condos were announced, I knew that that announcement would end any chance of the Lafayette having condos. Oh well, that's what shortsightedness can do to people.
Two separate and unrelated events.
The deal for the Lafayette was caving well before the Griswold was a gleam in the Roxbury Group's eye. The initial proposal by Peebles Atlantic Development for the Lafayette was predicated on internal parking at the Lafayette. The BC deck had absolutely nothing to do with the Lafayette.
Peebles came in and sold sunshine and butterflies and then when they were not given the rights to build tower in the sky developments along the East Riverfront (they wanted to duplicate a gated community like Riverfront Towers with huge parking decks facing the river and the streets) they threw a fit and walked away from everything including the Lafayette.
So why would fate get back at the City because a developer from Florida screwed over the City? |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2479
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:06 am: | |
Skulker, your facts may be true, but there was information and discussion on this forum about the Lafayette and Book Cadillac sharing the new parking structure. I know I did not imagine this. However, I will check the archives.
Also, the information that you gave about Peebles wanting to build on the riverfront was never discussed here before. Thanks for divulging that information. It explains why the Lafayette Building renovation fell through.
(Message edited by royce on January 02, 2008) |
Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3865
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 11:30 am: | |
Royce:
90% of what is posted here is pure speculation based on nothing that resembles fact.
Once Peebles heard about the new deck, they wanted the DDA to throw in free parking for them at the new deck. They did not want to pay for the extra spaces that would be required to be built for them. They expected the DDA to cover the costs of two additional floors for them. When the DDA balked at that, seeing as they were already getting a sweetheart deal, they used that as one of several reasons to walk away from the deal, even though they had originally proposed parking in the Lafayette itself and promised is was workable.
They also wanted the EDC to build a 1,000 space garage on the riverfront to hold their 24 story towers. That was a deal killer as well from the EDC perspective, in addition to their proposed plan being the exact thing the district guidelines were meant to prevent... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6033
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:06 pm: | |
quote:90% of what is posted here is pure speculation based on nothing that resembles fact.
That's probably more like 95%. After all this is a forum about ideas and dreams that individuals (from all over the country) have for the future of Detroit and environs. If it were only about actual facts, it would be a lonely forum indeed, with only 2 or 3 threads.
Granted some dreams and ideas are more half-baked than others...  |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1291
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:19 pm: | |
Yeah Gistok. If we had just pure facts, the site would have to be named DetroitNO or DetroitWHATEVER. |
Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3866
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:21 pm: | |
The problem is, people here read that speculative crap and think it is real.... |
Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj
Post Number: 3517
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:30 pm: | |
All that said, it is too bad the Griswold has gone down. All the other stuff aside, really it has to be more an issue of people not being able to sell their existing homes at a price they can deal with, if at all. I would imagine that most buyers at the Griswold would be people who currently live in the area. |
Bits
Member
Username: Bits
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 6:34 pm: | |
Can the Griswald parking structure be reinforced later for the addition of the housing above? The news article was not clear on this.
If not, why would the DDA pay $750k to the developers, making the housing impossible to add in the future rather then pay the $750k to reinforce the garage for the future housing on top? |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 7:20 pm: | |
The deck is already reinforced. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 835
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 7:26 pm: | |
yo, if any of ya want to get a good deal on scrap steel let me know. the price is right. |
Ramcharger
Member
Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 513
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 8:06 pm: | |
Company agrees to buy back steel at 50% cost |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 962
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 9:20 pm: | |
A 50% loss in less than a year, who is the purchasing agent, they should be fired. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 32
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 9:38 pm: | |
Check out the site tomorrow. The Griswold rises after all (albeit just 2 stories of the parking deck). |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 640
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:13 pm: | |
Got some pics of the garage:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com /3201/2289303370_1308203ec3_o. jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com /3079/2289303422_563c3c8e61_o. jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com /3163/2288514549_737578d651_o. jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com /3173/2289303488_0a303242fa_o. jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com /2106/2289320820_9733f236b1_o. jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com /2412/2289320980_22042c5df2_o. jpg |
Hans57
Member
Username: Hans57
Post Number: 274
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:15 pm: | |
Wow, that parking garage sure will be impressive.
-Sarcasm intended
(Message edited by hans57 on February 24, 2008) |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 582
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:16 pm: | |
My bank is across the street and they have been motoring on that sucker lately - it looks great and will be a great addition. |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 460
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:18 pm: | |
Think what it will look like with another 6 story of condos on top. Hopefully it happens..... |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1680
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:30 pm: | |
Yeah Rbdetsport. Wishful Thinking! |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 583
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 5:34 pm: | |
I'm glad it's happening, period. Condos were icing on the cake... frankly, it picks up the look of that entire corner and really finishes out a lot of sight lines.
I'm going to have to go to Lafayette for lunch and watch some construction... it is a very exciting time. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 10:08 pm: | |
Perhaps not condos after all, but word has it an alternative use is in the works |
Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj
Post Number: 4053
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 10:40 pm: | |
It will look good and frankly a 1920's hotel does need parking to do business now |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 467
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 11:08 am: | |
Scruffy, a source? Any more info? A time period? |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 5:56 am: | |
Hearing in real estate circles that the developer is looking at mixed-use, possibly including office. Goal would be to cut a deal in time for construction to proceed immediately following completion of the deck this summer. |
Wschnitt
Member
Username: Wschnitt
Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
Why would they sell back the steel then? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 10:51 pm: | |
The only reason I can surmise is because their stupid. |
Sandyrabbit
Member
Username: Sandyrabbit
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 5:07 am: | |
who pays your rent?
so are we talkin griswold griswold? hmmm...strange but i would usually complain about something being torn down, but in this instance, i am kind of in agreement, nothing but bad energy here in my lifetime folks.
addictions, beatings, deaths of friends.
make it a lot. and i hate lots. and i still won't park there.
omg its horrible.
never been more horrified terrified anyfied.
i still up for everything.
and would love to for this as well, but in all my years have not come up with one excuse to not make this place better.
good luck, hope you do one hell of a smudgin.. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 299
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 6:29 am: | |
Ernie Olde's son hung himself in the elevator shaft of that building when OLDE Discount was located there. |
Supergay
Member
Username: Supergay
Post Number: 130
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 10:30 am: | |
quote:The only reason I can surmise is because their stupid.
Classic. |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 353
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 10:38 am: | |
Sandyrabbit,
Talking about The Griswold Capital park, The proposed and planed then scrapped condos that were to be on top of the BC parking deck. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 6:11 pm: | |
Cancelling the steel order at a significant discount before any of it had actually been fabricated appeared to make more sense than having the entire order milled, fabricated then stored while the developer and the DDA figured out how and when to re-launch the project. If the word of a commercial use turns out to be accurate, that will have been a good decision (since the prior steel order was sized for a very different project). |
Gencinjay
Member
Username: Gencinjay
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 6:56 pm: | |
I'll have to look a bit closer at the garage. I didn't see much evidence of reinforcement for later development. Looked like a standard precast garage from the quick looks I took. |
Scruffy
Member
Username: Scruffy
Post Number: 36
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 7:02 pm: | |
The reinforcement was designed into the size, number and locations of the footings, precast columns and shear walls that run East, West and up the middle. There would be no other visible evidence. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 365
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 6:57 am: | |
There is some of the progress under the Thread
"My promotional Video for Detroit " |
Gencinjay
Member
Username: Gencinjay
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 1:02 pm: | |
Not knowing anything about architecture, I thought they'd need steel columns instead of reinforced concrete for something that size. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4021
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 1:13 pm: | |
^^^I've seen reinforced concrete columns in buildings as tall as 23 stories. It all depends on the column dimensions, unbraced length, reinforcing, and 28-day compressive strength of the concrete. |
New threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.