 
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4400
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 10:37 am: |    |
One of the under-the-radar blessings we have in Detroit is what we don't have -- gangs.
It didn't used to be that way and, I suspect, the decline of population density has contributed to the decline. [Yeah, I know there are gangs but, in the big scheme of things, not really.]
This very informative and also uplifting story came in the email bag this morning and I thought it might be a good conversation starter. Lots of dimensions to this story of the past and a reason why we should never give up on kids and the power of education.quote:Hi Lowell,
I looked at your site and wow man what a parade of memories.
Born in 1938 in Detroit. Dad worked at the Ford Rouge plant. His brother was a Captain on the Ford ore freighter boats.
The castle like Police station on Grand River brings back the darkest of memories of me being picked at my Trumbull home just like the one featured, where my mom and I lived in a one room apt. with at least 10 other residents with the bathroom in the hall. There were rats and roaches.
And gang warfare between the Shakers, the Crows (spanish from near Briggs stadium area) and the 3rd Street Boys, hillbillys from Tenn, Ky etc. Major gang fights.
In the Jeffries projects were the Strollers, The Strollerettes (females) and the Jr. Strollers. All a major gang that fought in earnest with the other mentioned gangs often. Unlike today, few guns but lots of knives and clubs etc.
I packed a 32 Mauser automatic pistol everywhere I went. Never shot anyone.
The Shakers were really to be feared. Later in life while in College in CA I took a class in (Sociology 2) deviant behavior and one night was shocked out of my chair. On the screen was a slide show and when we came to the worst example in the country at that time of juvenile delinquent behavior manifested in gang warfare they showed the Shakers AND on the screen was the same picture of the Grand River Police Station that was 3 blocks from my Trumbull house. I was jailed and beaten badly by the Detroit Police in that very station.
I could not keep up and I quit high school for the 3rd time (Chadsey) and found myself in front of a judge one day at the ripe old age of 17 staring at a stretch at Jackson Penn. or...the US Navy. With a lawyer, priest and my mom at my side the judge sent me into the Navy.
Today I look back at that dark phase of my life and after the Navy I moved to CA and began Jr. College. I was shocked to find out that in CA one could enroll in a Jr. College even if one were a high school drop out. I began with bone head English and math and university level philosophy and wound up graduating from Ventura College with an AA degree and made the deans list and....was the student body president while working full time at juvenile hall dealing with young criminals like I used to be. Transferred to San Jose State as a business major and.....many years later attended and finished at The Harvard Graduate School of Business Administration.
Other than that (short version) life has really been boring.
Oh, did I mention that I was a Highwaymen too. After I got of the Navy I ended up riding a Harley and met Russ Gibb and he...by default via very tough love motivated me to become educated. Could not possible do so in Mich. No way. Drop out, D's and F's. And no money for tuition at Wayne, U of D or U of M or Michigan State. Only by ending up in CA did I have a chance at an education.
So great job on this incredible site of a major once powerful city going down in decay year after year...Wow! |
Ragtoplover59
Member
Username: Ragtoplover59
Post Number: 178
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Wonderful Story, Hope he joins and we can learn more from him.
Detroit is full of experiences like this.
I know another thread is going on again about the book "Made in Detroit", and all I can think is that we were all Made in Detroit, But our stories are all different.
This forum is the perfect place to bring them all together! |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2677
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 11:25 am: | |
quote:One of the under-the-radar blessings we have in Detroit is what we don't have -- gangs.
Great. I'll be sure to mention that to the White T-Shirt Boys. |
Ed_golick
Member
Username: Ed_golick
Post Number: 898
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:05 pm: | |
And the 12th Street and North End gangs. |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:30 pm: | |
Detroit doesn't have gangs??
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha.
......
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha. |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4401
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
As I said...quote:[Yeah, I know there are gangs but, in the big scheme of things, not really.] And what we have ain't what they used to be. Take a stroll in south LA and enjoy the laughs. 
"I got the biggest gang in Detroit -- the police"
Coleman Young's warning to Detroit gangs after a gang incident in Cobo. [paraphrased] |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 990
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
In the early 90's I worked with a guy who told me about the Detroit gangs. He mentioned one time that the members were known in military terms like soldier, sergeant (sp), etc. Is that right? Do they sometimes run their gangs militarily?
When he told me that he had shot a guy who was about to shoot him I was thinking maybe I shouldn't hang out with him too much.
fnemecek, how long have the white t-shirt boys been around? |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:47 pm: | |
Lowell,
Agreed. Still, I'd prefer to avoid the Detroit gangs just as much as any of the south-central ones |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:49 pm: | |
White T-shirt boys...??? That's the name of their gang--a Detroit GANG. Your kidding right? |
Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568
Post Number: 257
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:50 pm: | |
take a stroll in southwest detroit, linwood area, grad river and joy area we really do have a huge gang problem here in the city the police department has a special unit just for gangs. but it is not as open in detroit as it is in other areas such as LA or the other fact is that most people stay out of these areas because there is no reason what so ever to go there |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4612
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
What a great story...
...After I got of the Navy I ended up riding a Harley and met Russ Gibb and he...by default via very tough love motivated me to become educated. Could not possible do so in Mich. No way. Drop out, D's and F's. And no money for tuition at Wayne, U of D or U of M or Michigan State. Only by ending up in CA did I have a chance at an education.
There you have it. First, one guy made a difference, and then affordable college education made a difference.
I wouldn't want to deal with any of the South LA gangs (the term "South-Central" has been officially decommissioned by the Villaraigosa Admin)...But an older neighbor in SWD told me about the "Blades" and the "Bladettes" of the 1950s, and they didn't sound very pleasant either. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 991
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
A totally tricked-out Cadillac Escalade pulled next to us on Mack and Alter Road on the east side, two-three years ago. Sitting inside were at least 4 (that I saw) young, very young black kids. Matching crisp white tshirts, gold chains and white caps. The vehicle and guys had been groomed to within one minute of their life. Maybe it was a young church singing group, but they sure did look like sneaky characters - very successful sneaky characters! |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4402
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:07 pm: | |
Most 'successful' street gangs need population density and continuity, two things that are lacking in Detroit.
Certainly there are instances of LA gangs 'opening offices' in Detroit and other cities, but that isn't same as indigenous steet gang creation. Parts of LA are more like Baghdad, carved up into turfs controlled by de-facto militias.
If we had that here our self-destroying local media would be falling over each other to run their sensational 'another reason to stay of out the City of Detroit' stories.
When is the last time we have had any story, major or minor, about Detroit gangs? That's my point and not that there aren't any gangs here. We have plenty of chaos, but it fragmented and disorganized. |
Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568
Post Number: 258
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
we do have that here ask any one that lives in the neighborhoods of detroit today and they will tell you that there are areas that they go into and areas or blocks they stay away from or avoid because theses areas are controlled by certain groups or gangs. these stories are in the local media all of the time they are just not labled gang activity but they are. for example a care drives down the block on the east side and opens fire on five young men sitting on the porch. what do you think this is related to? this is just a general example but it has happened in the past and it is related to gang activity |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2678
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:27 pm: | |
quote:When is the last time we have had any story, major or minor, about Detroit gangs?
So, it's okay if they're shooting up neighborhoods, as long as the local news media doesn't do a story about it?
And just how many shootings do we need to have before they become a "real" gang?
quote:White T-shirt boys...??? That's the name of their gang--a Detroit GANG. Your kidding right?
Okay - you go make fun of their name. Just be sure to update your will before you do. |
Beatsworking
Member
Username: Beatsworking
Post Number: 101
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
While there are a lot of small neighborhood crews here that account for a lot of crime, they can hardly be called gangs. Chicago's Latin Kings are 25,000 strong and have been around for 50 years. That's what I think of when I think of a gang.
(Message edited by beatsworking on December 29, 2007) |
Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568
Post Number: 259
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:52 pm: | |
say what you want but our small neighborhood crews have made detroit one of the most violent cities in america so they must be making some kind of an impact |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2679
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 1:56 pm: | |
Amen. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 840
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 2:37 pm: | |
There were indeed established gangs in NW Detroit in late 70s to early 80s. Members were loosely affiliated - the connection was the money-making trade involved. The powerful were often NOT flashy.
A few acquaintances ran with them and a few died as a result, or went to prison. I kept my distance, but did not disrespect them. Some of the areas were Herman Gardens, Puritan east of Greenfield, Schoolcraft east of Greenfield, and Plymouth Road near Schaefer. Last shoot-out I witnessed was in front of a party store on Fenkell east of Greenfield in 1986.
It was about (quietly) making money illegally, mostly with drugs. Tagging was relatively tame by today's standards. Gambling (basketball games, dice etc...) was a favorite pastime. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 798
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 3:01 pm: | |
I remember the "Sconies" and the "Errol Flynns" I think the media not talking about it, helps. These kids want notariety. |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 153
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:12 pm: | |
What about the Joy Road Boys? My mom's a teacher at Cody and one of the gang members came into the cafeteria one day and shot a window to pieces...
From what my mothers says, they're quitea problem around Cody High School... |
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:18 pm: | |
Hey! That's the "Earl Flynns" ...that's how they spelled it. |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 331
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:30 pm: | |
I have to agree that though there are gangs in Detroit and there were gangs when I was coming up in the 70's and 80's. It did not SEEM like the city was carved up into territories like Los Angeles, but maybe I am wrong.
I am not an "authority" on street activity. The few I knew who were involved in the "Street Trades" offered a "freelance" insight into the underworld. Freemarket so to speak....dealers bought from whomever(established people they already knew) and sold to whomever(established people they knew). Drive by's were usually related to bad drug deals(or over a woman) not territory disputes.
Maybe I am wrong on this...
guys who were "rollin'" were subject to street violence more because they were selling right on the street(car to car)
(Message edited by kaptansolo on December 29, 2007) |
Blksoul_x
Member
Username: Blksoul_x
Post Number: 106
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:30 pm: | |
There are four Major gangs DPD have followed for many years in the D. These gangs are not to be taken lightly and are not your typical identifiable crew by color or gear association...The Detroit gang culture is more complex than most cities...as they often graduate, or are recruited into the Detroit's drug, and underground culture.
...Here are a few crews to be noticed....
NFL's(Niggas' from Linwood)....faction of the old 70's gang, the 'Gangsta Flynn's and 'Linwood Players'...strong since the early 80's.
'Dexter Dogs'...a younger version of the M$M's(Money Makers),Strip Players and YBI's
Zone 8's..been around since the late 70's...a break off of the old 'T-Stones' of the mid 70's
Pa's 'Puritan Ave'(LK Sconie Hood)...as been
around since the early 80's
To be sure, Detroit crews have never willfully shown their strips or colors, but are not to be taken lightly...the youngest members usually terrorize the schools, and neighborhood streets, and is known for showing pride in membership to their neighborhood affilation...Detroit crews typically keep their business within the community in which they reside. Perhaps the reason we don't see much crew on crew violence, but more intra-crew bang'n.
Detroit gangs are typically territorial and can be identified by the packaging of their Drug Sales...ie; PA Hot' 'Dexter right', Linwood blue'... etc.
The Detroit police gang-squad does a great job in not allowing most Detroit gangs to be generational.
As I can recall, here are some of the biggest gang battles back in the day....
Errol Flynn's and Black Killers(BK's)
LK Sconies and Strip Players
Westwood's and Gishna Flynn's
Bishops, and Sconie Only's
Gangster Flynn's and Money Makers
Latin Counts, and Latin Cobras
blksoul_atcha! |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 332
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:36 pm: | |
well...now that blksoul has spoken on that...I really see how ignorant of the streets I was.
I do remember the M$M's |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:39 pm: | |
The point of this thread was the gangs that Detroit do have are harmless compared to gangs in LA, Chi-Town or NYC (or other big cities). I'd say the worst gangs in the D are in SW Detroit (and that's not saying much). |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4405
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 4:50 pm: | |
There was also the Chene Gang. I enjoyed the the double-way that could be pronounced - shane or chain. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 441
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 5:36 pm: | |
Darkside, Cash Flow Po$$e,Young Boys Inc., Cobra's, Latin Counts, and BK's are just a few that come to mind when I think of Detroit's gangs. I am familiar with most of these groups because of my grandparents and my parents having grown up in the SW Detroit area and it's Latino population is responsible for most of them. A predominance of the gang tagging going on down there is done by them, too.
I agree with the others, however, when they say that compared to some of the really big street gangs in NY, LA and Chicago, these gangs are, thankfully, relatively benign. They don't hold a candle, for instance, to groups like the Crypts or the Bloods, although, within their own little worlds, they can create quite a bit of havoc.Most are really wanna-be's.
The worst time that I remember was during the late 70' early 80's, when I was working for EMS downtown and most of these gangs were posturing for their position in the hierarchy. It was amazing to me that kids could do so much damage to each other, as I came from Allen Park and had never seen anything beyond a few guys taking each other on at football games. This area, as I recall, never saw much beyond a small "rumble", as we used to call them.
I also agree that most of these incidents were over drugs or girls. I was never an authority on these types of things, either, just a silent observer. |
Peachlaser
Member
Username: Peachlaser
Post Number: 145
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 6:22 pm: | |
In trying to determine why my family left Detroit in '52, the only clue was from my brother. He said he was in a store in New Center when a gang member from Hamtramck came walking up to him and hit him up side the head for no apparent reason. Once my father heard that, he said it was time for the family to get out of Detroit and head back to Georgia. So, the gang activity of the early 50's caused our family to leave Detroit.
Here in Atlanta, the biggest areas of gang activity used to be downtown in the housing projects. When the Olympics came, these housing projects were torn down and the inhabitants spread throughout Atlanta with Section 8 Housing Vouchers. The idea was to spread the problem around and, hopefully, the 'burbs would be able to create an environment where the gangs and street crime would not flourish. Instead, it had the affect of taking the crime, gangs and street crimes to the 'burbs so that now crime is spread throughout the community rather than centralized.
I watched as the street crime and attitudes took over our area and I started seeing tagging. Started writing some of the symbols down and went to an Internet site that has all the different tags. It seems the Folks from Chicago were real strong in our area with a few Crips and Bloods. I learned also that a pair of old tennis shoes with their shoelaces tied together and flung over a telephone line in front of an entrance meant that drugs were available on the street and now I notice those as I drive around.
People in our neighborhood complained to the police but the police said that these were not real gangs, but kids trying to act like they were in a gang! Huh!
It has taken about 10 years, but the area I live in has turned the tide. Our area used to be unincorporated but broke away from Fulton County and became a city in 2006. It seems the Fulton County Police were fairly ineffective in fighting that type of crime and the new Sandy Springs Police are rather vigilant and made a huge difference.
Another affect that this has had is that Atlanta has been known as a 'Black town' for years, but I have heard that now with people moving back into downtown into the luxury apartments and intown developments, that Atlanta may elect a white mayor in the near future as the racial balance is shifting as white flight has run its course.
I've watched with amazement as the 'gangsta and pimp' mentality has become the norm for many. What really amazes me is that this style has hit Detroit auto designs, particularly, the big SUVs and Chrysler products. Some cars today look like comic-book characters out of the gangster period of the roaring 20's with their 'tricked out' look, big tires, huge hoods and slab sides. So while gangs might not be super active in Detroit, the gangsta' style has invaded Detroit styling. |
Ghetto_butterfly
Member
Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 778
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 8:07 pm: | |
A few years ago, my son, then 16 or 17, I don't remember exactly and a couple of his friends the same age were driving around on Detroit's west side and got picked up by cops. Because they violated the curfew rule of Detroit (I don't know if and how this rule is in effect today). This rule stated that being under the age of 17, I think it was, you could not be out in the streets after 9 pm. We lived in Novi at the time, it wasn't for about another year that we moved into the city. Anyway, supposedly, they "got lost" in that area and were picked up by the gang squad. I got a call sometime after 9 pm, telling me I had to pick him up. I almost passed out when I got this phone call, but the officer assured me that my son was fine, it was simply a matter of breaking the curfew rule and according to procedure, a legal guardian had to come and get him. They gave me directions to the gang squad station on Cecil Ave, off of I-94 west. What a surreal experience that was. Undercover cops posing as gang members and dressed and acting the part. The station building was covered with gang graffiti, the neighborhood pretty obscure. They explained to me why they were doing this, saying this is gang territory and no place for a white, young, naive teenager (which I totally agreed with). A kid like that, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. One of the cops gave my son a stern lecture and told him "don't you be scaring your moma like that, kid". All in all, I got the feeling that gangs are a problem here in the D, but no more so than in other big cities. It was also my understanding, based on what these police officers told me, that there is a concentration of gang activity in the west-southwest side of the city. This was back in 1999 or 2000. |