  Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2007 |
From the Detroit News...This really sucks http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20071231/BIZ/7 12310362 | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 520 Registered: 08-2006 |
Spectacularly disappointing, but not a surprise considering the housing market at this time. It sounds like once Quicken moves downtown it will only be a matter of time before someone jumps on building the Griswold or a similar alternative. | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1955 Registered: 04-2005 |
What's (fucking) next... | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1251 Registered: 09-2007 |
They wait to destroy our High Rise density downtown, then scrap the project and lead way for another surface lot. Just perfect! | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 234 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wow. What a way to bring in the new year. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1252 Registered: 09-2007 |
I found this to be the most intersting part of the article: "The garage will be funded by revenue generated by hotel guests and others working nearby, a prospect that could grow if Quicken Loans Inc. develops the former Lafayette Building nearby." | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 521 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroitrise, note that the garage, along with the ground-floor retail, is still being built--it's just the six-story condo project on top that is being scrapped. | ||
Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2007 |
Highrise density...when did they do that, and what's the limit? | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 522 Registered: 08-2006 |
No height limit as long as City Council approves it. I think Detroitrise was just referring to the fact that the forces at work here have historically been chipping away at the density of the downtown core, with the trend towards demolition of older structures and subsequent conversion to surface parking. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2471 Registered: 07-2004 |
Too bad. Time to rethink how to bring people interested in living downtown into downtown. Maybe asking for less and renting out spaces in old buildings is the way to go instead of asking for these pie-in-the-sky prices such as asking $200,000 for an 800 square foot condo. I can get a house with double that square footage for that amount of money. Interesting that the reporter chose to end the story with a bright note by saying that Quicken might have some interest in the Lafayette Building. First time I have ever heard of Quicken possibly showing and interest in the Lafayette. I guess the reporter was just thinking, "Anything is possible." Not going to happen but nice try on his part. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4683 Registered: 10-2004 |
Now there's two failed projects, practically located next to each other and near the BC... I don't follow DY that much unless there's nothing much else to do, but I do read the financial press. There was an interesting article in the Daily Wealth from this spring that made some predictions about the CBD. In case it wasn't presented earlier... The Cheapest Skyscrapers In The World By Tom Dyson May 24, 2007 "The announcement isn't official yet," said the doorman, "but McDonald's is opening up a restaurant on this corner next month." Walking around downtown Detroit, I almost felt like I was in Manhattan for a second. There are dozens of skyscrapers, the buildings are beautiful, and you can feel this place used to be extremely prosperous. But that's where the comparison ends. For one, there are no people in downtown Detroit. It was midday on a Tuesday. Except for a few beggars, a handful of office workers, and some city employees, the place is empty. There is scant traffic. It's quiet. And weirdly enough, it's very green. Trees grow on the roofs of high-rise buildings, ivy grows on their facades, and vacant lots are covered in tall grass. They call them "urban prairies" here, and they attract the coyotes that keep showing up on city streets. Another thing: Downtown Detroit has hardly any retail. Even the fast food restaurants that infest every other American city are missing. Why? Many of these beautiful skyscrapers are vacant. Windows are boarded up, smashed, or just swinging on their hinges. No office workers. Hence, no fast food customers, either. But now McDonald's is coming back in. Could it be a buy signal? I think so... "Leases Now Available," "For Sale By Owner," "Free Utilities" – everywhere you look, there's space available. I met with a commercial realtor who showed me around town for a couple of hours. "The Book Building is one to think about," he said. "Rumor is the owner is behind on his utilities and has stopped servicing the elevators." The Book's tower is 38 stories high. A New York outfit bought it in 2006, but it's given up on the development plans and now wants to unload it. I couldn't believe what I saw. You can buy entire towers for peanuts. I really liked the 37-story David Stott building, pictured below. It's on the market today for $3.9 million. The 19-floor David Whitney Building is for sale, too. So is the 35-story David Broderick Tower. You could probably buy all three "Davids" for less than $10 million. The reality is, dozens of skyscrapers are for sale in Detroit. In almost every case, their owners are desperate to unload them. And the best part? The city will beg you to get involved and bribe you with incentives. The Book-Cadillac Hotel is a good example and a symbol of Detroit's downtown renaissance. The Book-Cadillac is a gorgeous building – a 32-story 1920s Italian Renaissance-style high-rise made of granite and limestone. In 1986, the city shuttered it and abandoned it for 20 years. In 2005, Kimberly-Clark nearly bought it. When it realized how much the refurbishing would cost, it backed out of the deal. The city panicked, knowing if it allowed the Book-Cadillac project to fall back into disrepair, it would scare everyone away again. Instead, the city gave the property away to an outfit from Ohio. It followed that up by giving the new owners huge tax breaks AND huge subsidies to finish the work. The good news is, condos in the Book-Cadillac have sold out already. Now consider the 1001 Woodward building, a sleek 25-story high-rise. Developers are converting this building into condos. Brave indeed. It's hard to imagine anyone will buy them, let alone rent them, but that's the sentiment I like. The high-rise overlooks the Detroit River. From the 20th floor, I watched a 1,000-foot ore carriers chugging along the waterway, pumping out black smoke from its stacks as it pushed its load at what seemed a pretty good clip. It made me think: Detroit can handle huge ships. It has great rail and roadway infrastructure. This place has major advantages from a manufacturing point of view. I'm going to keep a close eye on 1001 Woodward. It's the litmus test. It's at the very heart of Detroit, right in the center of the action. If they can't sell the condos in 1001 Woodward, then there's no hope for this city. The opportunity in Detroit makes the hairs on the back of my neck bristle... and I'm drooling over the price tags on some of these skyscrapers, but I must warn you: It's a bit like buying a French chateau. The purchase is the easy part. The rehab and maintenance take the real money. But if you have the expertise and real money to spend, it's a fire sale here in Detroit. Good investing, Tom | ||
Toog05 Member Username: Toog05 Post Number: 167 Registered: 03-2006 |
those condos will be built one day, even if its 10 years from now, we not go be stuck in this rut forever | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2006 |
agree with all the comments. sky high prices / sq. foot for a condo sitting over a garage being built at the wrong time. maybe it will be built later, at a more reasonable price, etc. every thing has its time and the time is not now. maybe after the B-C reenergizes that part of DD then more folks might be interested in living in that building. too many of these DD condo projects were overpriced IMHO. sanity in condo prices is a good thing. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4684 Registered: 10-2004 |
Another barometer to watch is the number of condos in the BC closing. Some "buyers" might have buyer's remorse and walk away, leaving their 5% down payment behind. Suppose, the BC condo market values would be devalued 20% from prior expectations. Then, it would make sense to simply walk away and absorb the loss of the down payments. However, if the threat of that occurs, the BC owners would probably renegotiate the condo prices downwards anyways. In any event, that just makes owning the BC less profitable (or more costly). KC walked away after spending millions of their money on the BC earlier. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 508 Registered: 10-2005 |
Markets do up and down. This is a temporary set-back. It is wise to look at development over a long period of time. Eventually it will be built, or something similar to it. | ||
Schoolcraft Member Username: Schoolcraft Post Number: 121 Registered: 07-2005 |
Look for our neighbors to the south start to buy in the city. The loonies value has them crunching the numbers now. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2441 Registered: 04-2006 |
That sucks. What would suck even more is if they scrapped the Book Cadillac project as well. I think they should put a moratorium on allowing new parking structures to be built within the CBD bordered by the freeways. If there was truly an argument that parking helped development then downtown should be booming right now. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 940 Registered: 03-2006 |
I keep reading all these articles, some even quoting Ferchill, on the Book condo sales being so good. Then I hear him on a radio interview a month ago saying sales are only around 50% and some may back out of that. He actually sounded gloomy. The reality of the situation is starting to show itself i'm afraid. | ||
Woodward Member Username: Woodward Post Number: 38 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: Gilbert has an option to buy the Lafayette Building. It was part of the deal to relocate downtown http://crainsdetroit.com/apps/ pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071119 /SUB/311190067 quote: (Message edited by woodward on December 31, 2007) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3169 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Interesting that the reporter chose to end the story with a bright note by saying that Quicken might have some interest in the Lafayette Building. First time I have ever heard of Quicken possibly showing and interest in the Lafayette." It was reported back when Quicken announced their move downtown that they were given an option to develop the Lafayette...sounds like the reporter is just speculating based on that bit of information that everybody was given... | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2007 |
At least all the Book Cadillac condos are sold. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 942 Registered: 03-2006 |
Far from it Rax | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2007 |
That was a joke. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 944 Registered: 03-2006 |
Sorry Rax, I missed your sarcasm. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4241 Registered: 02-2005 |
Ugh. I want the old building back. Why can't they just tell the truth? It's because we don't have any people to fill these condos. Where's the new wealth, where are the new jobs? Not in this area, and people are leaving. What the hell does NEW HOME SALES have to do with this? Jackson says, ""We know there are people eager to enjoy the benefits of urban living in downtown Detroit, but when people can't sell their homes in the suburbs to move here, it does create an obstacle," Jackson said in a statement." Yeah, kinda, but what about NEW home sales. Do you have to build and sell another mcmansion before you move downtown. How many people that are moving downtown are coming from the exurbs? I don't think there are very many. Instead of scrapping this, they could have simply made the units smaller, slashed prices, turned these into rentals, etc...they relegated themselves into too small of a market. Their clientele should be the newly wealthy young people who may have 100-200k ready to commit at the most. They could have also tried to find owners who would have rented the units, but I'm guessing their payments would have been too high to cover through rent. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 575 Registered: 03-2007 |
well, at least there will be less competition in a very soft market, minus 1001 woodward and griswald. Im still excited to see the area come alive, with eventual work being done in Capital Park. I was a bit concerned on all the condo coming at such a weak time in housing. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2444 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Well, the condos downtown are probably considered new home sales. They are adding more housing supply to an obviously saturated market. That said, I bet the real issue is that it has become immensely harder to get financing in the past 6 months. Downtown Detroit isn't a market that has yet proven itself like a Chicago or Manhattan. It also still has some unattractive qualities working against it ( ::cough:: transportation ::cough:: ) that make other cities a safer investment right now. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1255 Registered: 09-2007 |
Let's just say this, developers sure did pick a fine time to outline another possible Detroit renaissance. We should have started back in the late 80s/early 90s. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 984 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: quote:Statements like these ignore the actual cost of new hi-rise construction and imply that the developer was somehow trying to squeeze buyers for too much profit. But this is just not true. The costs per sq. ft. of the Griswold project are in line with, or even lower than that of existing downtown condos or those being built in cities like Minneapolis, Atlanta, Denver, Cleveland and Austin. The emerging downtown residential markets in these cities resemble the Detroit market in many ways. The overall poor real estate market in SE Michigan brought down this project, not some kind of greed or blunder by the developer. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4242 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yes, Iheart, I believe that all those other overall factors in the housing market affected the ability to finance, but I'm surprised they couldn't find at least a few bankers that were sold on downtown Detroit being a unique investment. The overall market, in the loosest possible terms, is saturated, but I prefer at least some differentiation between new mcmansions and new apartments in a completely different setting. |
