Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Uptown Charlotte ready for retail, with less workers then downtown Detroit. Is Detroit ready? « Previous Next »
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 754
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check out this following link about a study that found downtown workers would spend way more money in downtown Charlotte, if there was stores. And how there is a pent up demand for more shopping downtown.
An interesting thing to note is downtown Charlotte(Uptown)has about 20,000 less workers then downtown Detroit.

For the news video click on
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/147 93103/detail.html

I have no doubt that downtown Detroit workers could support a huge amount of stores.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1274
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I know Downtown Detroit can support retail if Downtown Charlotte can. Even we have more favorable demographics than what's in their article. We need to watch them and see how the whole situation plays out there in attracting retail.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 583
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All politics!

<313>
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Illwill
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Username: Illwill

Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit has a serious reputation for high shrinkage. This may or may not be true, but in my opinion it's an obvious untapped market. Someone will take advantage of this opportunity and I'm sure it'll be sooner than later. Hopefully when the real estate market gets back on track.
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Crumbled_pavement
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Username: Crumbled_pavement

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think suburban Charlotters hate Charlotte nearly as much as Metro Detroiters hate and detest Detroit.
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Shave
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Username: Shave

Post Number: 27
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to mention that the cost to do business in Charlotte vs. Detroit may also be a determining factor. You cannot overlook the fact that it is a huge risk, from an economic and social point of view, when you look at retail in the Detroit market vs. the Charlotte market. The cost to secure the merchandise, employees, etc. alone will create additional expenses. There simply must be more favorable factors in place to garner the same profit margin in Detroit vs. Charlotte.

Bottom line is this: there is a subculture in Detroit that is hindering growth in the city from so many angles. There is a real and/or perceived risk in doing business in the City of Detroit that people are so quick to overlook. Retailers look at this and consider this when it comes to investing their hard-earned money. Detroit's struggle to attract retail has very little, if any, to do about finances. Study after study supports the financial strength of the citizenry. In my honest opinion, people are simply afraid of the real and/or perceived crime in the city and seemingly the crass attitudes of the powers that be towards this epidemic. They rather taut the buying power of the citizenry rather than the solutions to the crime. Unless the crime is reigned in, Detroit will struggle to secure quality retail. It's that simple. Like it or not.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1278
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point Shave.

Crumbled_pavement, your point is irrelevent in this thread.

"He said uptown should target people who live and work in center city, instead of trying to woo suburbanites. 'We don't expect anybody to bypass their local mall, to come here to shop,' Hunter said."

The population/worker population in Midtown and Downtown should definitely welcome at least lower end chain retail.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, and importantly:

For retail in Detroit, the owners must make sure they offer top notch service and products as they do way out on 47 Mile and Shiawassee rd. People aren't going to shop at your store if you don't have the listed expectations, and retail in Detroit almost always lacks top notch service and products (except for isolated places).

(Message edited by DetroitRise on January 01, 2008)
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Detmi7mile
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Username: Detmi7mile

Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All it takes is one Best Buy store or Macy's to get the ball rolling.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2478
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitrise, your last post begs the question, "Why does retail in Detroit lack top-notch service and products?"
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2173
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I don't think suburban Charlotters hate Charlotte nearly as much as Metro Detroiters hate and detest Detroit."

TRUE. The center city of Charlotte is the most expensive place to live. I'm sure that there are many factors why Charlotte is generally the opposite of Detroit in this regard. Likely there is some new respect in the younger generations for an urban setting.

Well at least if there is not enough retail in the CBD, there might always be a better opportunity to locate it on the edge of the CBD (think site of the former Motown building). Much of the retail in this project in Charlotte is already open (a Home Depot Design Center with a full-size Target on top): http://www.charlottecentercity .org/Development_Report/Midtow n/metropolitan.pdf
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 757
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is what Downtown Detroit. If I had the million to do it, this is what I would open. It would probably be a success. Binetti is my last name incase you are wondering why I would call the store that. I even included Hudson in the name, for historical purposes.
-------------------------

HUDSON & BINETTI DOWNTOWN
WOODWARD AVE

New store opening in the heart of downtown Woodward Ave, occupying the first three floors of a historical building.

HUDSON & BINETTI WILL BRING THE BASICS THAT DOWNTOWNERS NEED, AS WELL AS A TOUCH OF UNIQUESS TO ATTRACT REGION WIDE SHOPPERS.

LETS TAKE A TOUR.

FOOD HALL, FIRST FLOOR
The Food Hall will feature a selection of all the basic food items downtown residents and workers need, as well as a selection of unique products that make food shopping a delight and an attraction. Aside from the basic food items, focus will be put on locally Michigan and Ontario made and grown food. Highlights, will be the Bakery department, which will feature pasteries and breads made from 20 of the most popular bakeries in Metro Detroit-Windsor, and surrounding areas, giving you the best selection of the best pasteries and breads in one area.

The Food Hall will also feature downtown Detroit's largset selection of lunch counters, with everything from Italian, to Japanese. Sit down or take out, Hudson and Binetti will be the place for the best food in downtown and the region.

WOMENSWEAR, SECOND FLOOR AND PARTS OF FIRST FLOOR
The Womenswear department will feature a selection of casual and dressy clothing. A major focus will be on clothing from local Detroit designers. Price points will vary from reasonable to high end, with a focus on reasonable prices for middle class residents.

COSMETICS AND JEWLERY, FIRST FLOOR
Will feature top brands with a focus as well on local creations.


MENSWEAR, THIRD FLOOR, AND PARTS OF FIRST FLOOR
The Menswear department will feature a selection of casual and dressy clothing. A major focus will be on clothing from local Detroit designers. Price points will vary from reasonable to high end, with a focus on reasonable prices for middle class residents.


THE DETROIT SHOP, FIRST FLOOR
The store will feature a special section celebrating Detroit. Come here for Detroit themed t-shirts and other gifts. Focus will be on unique designs, and not tourist trap designs.


ROOM FOR EXPANSION
Hudson & Binetti will grow with the revival of downtown Detroit. There will be room to expand to up to 6 floors.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 482
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having a little experience on the periphery of people bringing retail to downtown or near it, as well as knowing a few retail business owners or regional heads, it comes down to stupidly high insurance and really high shrinkage in the city, as well as interestingly enough, and this part is anecdotal, a higher chance of being sued by patrons.

Of the people I know who've considered coming downtown, they've always chose the burbs but close enough to serve the area by driving because the insurance and added security (with liability issues) killed the profit margin.

That said, I think with a few tweaks in law and maybe some innovative ways of doing business (self-insurance?) Detroit is a ripe, underserved market. There is business opportunity everywhere, and even more so in "distressed" areas, you just need to find it.

As to service issues - unless you shop at a high-end like an Apple or Papa Joes, or a specific niche store (Huber & Breese comes to mind) or something, you're for the most part not getting great service anywhere anymore, city or suburb.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1297
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.vnnforum.com/showth read.php?t=59017

Me thinks some of you guys know about the site and comment there, but for those who haven't, it's beyond crazy.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2176
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, for decades there were large retailers in downtown Detroit. If they left because the whites in the city and neighborhoods left, then fine. But with more whites moving back into the city (esp. downtown and midtown), why should retailers not move back in as well? I guess I am wondering how much more of whatever, it will take for some more retailers to move back in.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2458
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Shave

So the reason that Detroit doesn't have retail is because criminals who might reside in the city can't cross the invisible barrier to go commit crimes in the suburbs? Is it like one of those invisible doggy fences that sends an electric shock into the collar when the dog tries to cross the border?

(Message edited by iheartthed on January 03, 2008)
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Chitown_guy
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Username: Chitown_guy

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All it takes is a change of perception. Detroit needs to rid itself of its images. This is up to the residents who actually live in the city. Stop shooting people, stay in school, say no drugs, and all the other cliches involved. Now, some people may view this as racist, but it is the truth. You wonder why the suburbs have all the retail and grocery stores and Detroit does not. Okay, I am the CEO of Wal-mart or Target, I am going to put my store in a neighborhood that is full of crime? Come on people, once you clean up your acts and neighborhoods, then the perception will change. Otherwise this unjust stereotype of Detroit will continue and all Detroiters will still venture into the 'burbs for a gallon of milk.
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Sciencefair
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Username: Sciencefair

Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Than
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Crumbled_pavement
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Username: Crumbled_pavement

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chitown_guy said: "All it takes is a change of perception. Detroit needs to rid itself of its images. This is up to the residents who actually live in the city. Stop shooting people, stay in school, say no drugs, and all the other cliches involved. Now, some people may view this as racist, but it is the truth. You wonder why the suburbs have all the retail and grocery stores and Detroit does not. Okay, I am the CEO of Wal-mart or Target, I am going to put my store in a neighborhood that is full of crime? Come on people, once you clean up your acts and neighborhoods, then the perception will change. Otherwise this unjust stereotype of Detroit will continue and all Detroiters will still venture into the 'burbs for a gallon of milk."

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. I don't think the drugged out dropouts who shoot people really care about retail in the city. You know there are 900k people in Detroit and they are not the same person. Some commit crimes, some don't. I believe it is those who don't do drugs, shoot people, or drop out of school that are doing the complaining...
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1333
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I don't think suburban Charlotters hate Charlotte nearly as much as Metro Detroiters hate and detest Detroit."

^^ BINGO
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2497
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crumbled_pavement, don't act so naive at what Chinatown_guy said. You know damn well that there is an element in Detroit that does exactly what he is saying and makes it bad for the rest of us who don't.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But the "element" can commit crime anywhere, and chooses to do so in Detroit rather than Dearborn or Ferndale. Why? Government. In Dearborn or Ferndale, if a crime is committed such as burglary or shoplifting, there is a police presence, an investigation and if possible an arrest and conviction. In Detroit, the two times my flat was broken into and burglarized, we couldn't even get the police to come. That is the reason we no longer live in Detroit.

That is the difference. The police in Detroit do not take property crime seriously. Fix that and you fix a lot.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 758
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the suburbs are so safe, why does everyone have alarm systems?

I find it so funny everyone goes on about how safe the suburbs. Yet they don't even go two min away without arming the alarm on their house :-)
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Chitown_guy
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Username: Chitown_guy

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. I don't think the drugged out dropouts who shoot people really care about retail in the city. You know there are 900k people in Detroit and they are not the same person. Some commit crimes, some don't. I believe it is those who don't do drugs, shoot people, or drop out of school that are doing the complaining...

Wow, case in point. Congratulations sir, you just proved my point. You cannot deny the fact that crime exists, too much of it Detroit. In Chicago we recently had the smallest number of murders in years. We are bigger and have our bad spots to. But guess what, I can buy a stove in downtown Chicago. Can you do that in Detroit? No. Obviously the 900,000 Detroiters are all not contributing to the crimes. Look at Meijer. They are a Michigan company and yet they do not have a store in Michigan's largest city. What does that tell you?
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike,

The suburbs (in general, but not all of them) are safer by a wide margin than all of the city. I never have had an alarm since I moved out of Detroit (I had one there, not that it did any good) and I never have felt like I needed one.

Chitown, the problem isn't the people committing crimes; they exist everywhere. The problem is how the city chooses to deal with that, or not to.

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