Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1753 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 3:47 pm: | |
News Hits has an interesting take on how to face the primary challenge. All that's left The primary implosion's silver lining Earlier this year we were sitting around a table with seven people talking politics. It was the aftermath of a funeral for a co-worker's mom, and, unlike the News Hits crew, the folks sitting around us weren't all flaming lefties. Nearly all of them, though, when asked about the presidential candidates, said they liked Dennis Kucinich, the Democratic U.S. representative from Ohio. But in almost the same breath, these same people expressed the view that Kucinich didn't have a chance. We found it interesting that a somewhat random group of people could both embrace a candidate and yet, despite seeing that others felt the same, could also write that candidate off as being a lost cause. This was still early in the game, but already the front-runners had been identified. And by the time the debates began, Kucinich was already being shoved to the margins, receiving a fraction of the attention given to candidates leading in the polls. Whenever it comes time to make endorsements, we here at Metro Times often find ourselves engaged in a vigorous debate: Do we go with the candidate who most closely holds the policies and positions we embrace — which, it often seems, is a candidate who has little chance of winning — or do we compromise and give our stamp of approval to a candidate that we might not wholly embrace, but at least seems to have a chance of being elected? It is a debate that has merit on both sides: One is driven primarily by ideals, the other more pragmatic. Because of the hopelessly messed-up nature of this year's Democratic primary, Metro Times isn't making an endorsement this time out. Two of the three candidates given a realistic chance at winning the nomination — former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois — took their names off the ballot after the national party objected to Michigan moving its primary date forward. And, as punishment for that maverick move, the national party has decided that Michigan delegates to the national convention won't have a say in selecting the Democratic candidate. But that doesn't mean Tuesday's vote has to be a meaningless one for Michigan Democrats or, for that matter, progressives of all stripes (Greens, are you listening?). ... The rest at http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=12305 |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6101 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 5:47 pm: | |
I wonder just what will happen at that convention... will the Michigan delegation be excluded from the convention floor? Or will they just be excluded from a vote? It could get very messy. Ditto for Florida. I don't think that powerful congressional committee chairmen (and likely delegates) Dingell, Conyers and Levin will take kindly to not getting a say (or voting their vote)... especially Dingell, dean of the House, and Michigan's most powerful congressman, and one person that few people inside the beltway like to mess with. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1758 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 5:54 pm: | |
Democratic Party was nuts about anybody "throwing their vote away" on Nader. But, when it comes to the throwing the state of Michigan's votes away, well ... |
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 5:20 pm: | |
They'll seat the delegates. They can count just as well as anyone else, and they know (or they better) that the Dems can't take the White House without taking Michigan. If they insist on following through with their threat, they will as good as hand the WH to the Republicans for another 4 years. Although , I never underestimate my party's ability to lose an election. |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3215 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 5:37 pm: | |
Here's what'll happen this summer: After the typical smoke-filled back room meetings, both parties will issues press releases stating that for the "good of the party", or words to that effect, that all the delegates from Michigan & Florida will be seated, so that they can concentrate on the pressing matter at hand, placing their candidate in office and defeating the "other" party's candidate (after they issue a long diatribe comparing them to something just short of the Anti-Christ). |
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 8:21 pm: | |
I expect that some way or other delegates from Michigan will be seated, but I see no reason that it would make much difference as far as who would win the state in the general election. It isn't as if it would suddenly be in the interest of the Democratic party hierarchy to have a Republican president, and I know of no evidence that normal voters care about that kind of stuff. In fact, it is doubtful that normal voters will even be aware of it--if they even hear about it in July, it will be a hazy memory by November. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3363 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 8:48 pm: | |
I think you're seriously underestimating Michigan voters, Mwilbert. The perceived slights by the Democrats have come up on a lot of the boards I read - everything from refusing the Detroit debate to not seating the delegates to not campaigning here to even watching the DNC try to spin it back on the state Dem leaders instead of acknowledging the issue they raised. I don't think it will be forgotten. |
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 2:22 pm: | |
"I expect that some way or other delegates from Michigan will be seated, but I see no reason that it would make much difference as far as who would win the state in the general election. " I disagree, but time will tell won't it? =) I think the difference it has the potential to make is that if enough Democrats (like myself) DO remember the slight, and if the right Republican wins the nomination, then enough Democrats could potentially cross party lines and swing the state to the Republicans. Plus, if I recall correctly, no Democrat has won the WH without carrying Michigan. At least that is what I recall reading recently. |
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag
Post Number: 358 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 6:59 pm: | |
It seems like it all matters who has the most money....or if the ones who are really running things want you to win or not. I really think that "they" are backing McCain. Why then would a candidate like Obama not be listed in the Michigan primary where you know that he would have won here. It's all too suspicious to me. These candidates "do what they are told". |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3219 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 7:22 pm: | |
If you're ticked about Obama not being on the ballot, get ticked at this guy. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3375 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 8:12 pm: | |
"no Democrat has won the WH without carrying Michigan" not true - in the 1900s alone: Carter, Truman, both of Wilson's terms, and even FDR's third term - Michigan went against all of them (Message edited by lilpup on January 27, 2008) |
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2708 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 11:08 pm: | |
quote:Democratic Party was nuts about anybody "throwing their vote away" on Nader. But, when it comes to the throwing the state of Michigan's votes away, well ... The Democratic Party didn't throw away Michigan's votes. Michigan threw away its own.
quote:They can count just as well as anyone else, and they know (or they better) that the Dems can't take the White House without taking Michigan. Yes, everyone in the DNC can count. They know it's better to piss off 2 states than to piss off 48.
quote:Here's what'll happen this summer: After the typical smoke-filled back room meetings, both parties will issues press releases stating that for the "good of the party", or words to that effect, that all the delegates from Michigan & Florida will be seated... And right after that release, delegates from the other 48 states will remind everyone that they still get a vote. At which point, the aforementioned press release will be rescinded; Michigan and Florida will be screwed.
quote:I think the difference it has the potential to make is that if enough Democrats (like myself) DO remember the slight... Who slighted whom? Michigan's delegation voted in favor of the rules, only to turned around and break them. (Message edited by fnemecek on January 27, 2008) |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1020 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:00 am: | |
Now, Billary wants to count delegates in Michigan. Is the Dem party going to cave in post de facto, we will see their backbone then. Again we have the the choice of worst of two evil scenarios. Michigan can have POWER at the convention and only at the convention if they WAIT until the primaries are settled. NOT before. If Michigan is to have a say in how this race turns out, the only way is to wait until they need delegates and then beg for votes and promise major money etc. in turn for votes. I hate to say it but it is the way it works. Hillary is begging for the delegates now because she is desperate. See how desperate she gets at the Convention. Things can change very quickly. |
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 159 Registered: 12-2007
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:45 am: | |
Lefty...She isn't Desperate...The front runner decides if the delegates are seated, so if she is ahead going into the convention, of course she'll want them seated. Do you think Obama or Edwards would do any different? It's called politics. |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3220 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 7:18 am: | |
That's operating under the impression that she'll still be the front runner this summer. |