Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » How Does "35 MPG McCain" Even Have A Chance In Michigan? « Previous Next »
Archive through January 11, 2008Livernoisyard30 01-11-08  10:33 pm
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 71
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In last night's debate, McCain said he doesn’t think the U.S. is heading into a recession, despite the fact that Michigan’s unemployment rate was 7.4 percent in November. Huckabee said he hopes the U.S. economy isn’t headed into recession. Ron Paul said we are already in a recession.

This is the same McCain who said, a couple of weeks ago, that the United States military could stay in Iraq for "maybe a hundred years" and that "would be fine with me."

This guy doesn't think we are in a recession and that we can afford to stay in Iraq for another 100 years. Couple those perceptions with his reputation for blowing his top. McCain is not presidential material.

He does, however, own a Cadillac CTS.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4817
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The socialists should like McCain as he's essentially one of them--a RINO--and about the biggest lib in the GOP as they come. He's a hawk, though, but so are five dozen Democrat Yellow Dog Congressmen.

I listened to him being interviewed two or three times today on WJR, and each time he was full of BS about what he was going to do to help Michigan. As if there's anything that anybody could do to help Detroit, short of throwing more money at it.

If anybody read between his lines, the only thing that he could do would be to impose tariffs on imports--be they autos, textiles, and furniture--plus imposing a huge added tax on all forms of energy. Yeah! That's what this country needs. NOT

A lot of talk, but no substance. He's a nice guy, though, but I wouldn't care to have any of my friends elected president.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 12, 2008)
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Elviswithteeth
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Username: Elviswithteeth

Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit needs to look at 100 MPG...forget 35! This short coming is the death of the Big 3!
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2330
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 7:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Cali they are converting the Prius to go 100 MPG with very simple mods that do NOT increase pollution.

35 ? You are talking about the original Model T's mileage. Pathetic.

Lightweight super strong materials, and end the giant bus truck fetish. Fin.
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Flyingj
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Username: Flyingj

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can they be shocked nobody turned out for Romney in WARREN? They've got long memories 'round there. His old man went after Warren like the Romans went after Carthage I mean he f'd with 'em over block grants, water treatment, property taxes...Warren had to sue George to get him to leave them alone

http://ap.google.com/article/A LeqM5jWbI2rULUHnQwe-83Fd1Pb2lT 8-wD8U3UA880
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Deandub11
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Username: Deandub11

Post Number: 200
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The comparison between the model t and cars of today is an extremely dumb comparison. Hillary tried to use it also. It was dumb when she said it and dumb now. The model T weighed 1200 pounds. It also did not have a catalytic converter so it let out way more co2 than any car today. It basically had no safety features and it didnt have luxuries such as air conditioning or electric windows. The model t could only go 45 miles per hour. This is an apples to oranges comparison.
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 367
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

-Still this is the same country that put a man on the moon- back in 69. Many cars back in the '80's easily got mpg in the 30's. The current situation is pathetic and inexcusable, and once again Detroit get caught with its pants down, and we all pay the price for it.

By 2020 weren't we supposed to be flying around in hovering cars? :-)
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Goblue
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Username: Goblue

Post Number: 922
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury: Hell...my 800 lb., 1300 cc. HOG got 40 mph! All I see every morning is soccer moms (including my daughter) driving their kids to school in SUV's and then picking them up in the afternoon...just so the poor sweet little darlings don't have to walk 50 ft. to get on the school bus. The sooner we make this nonsense impossible to continue the better off we'll all be.
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 61
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catalytic converters do not reduce CO2.
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Deandub11
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Username: Deandub11

Post Number: 203
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True Mwilbert. Good catch. It reduces carbon monoxide CO and other harmful emissions. CO2 on the mind.
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Soomka1
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Username: Soomka1

Post Number: 73
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

McCain is a douche. I live in AZ and we know he is a self-promoting sellout. I guess a lot of people in Michigan would like him because he is anti-tax cut, pro-gun control anti-drilling in Alaska anti-business fool. He is basically Granholm in a suit.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4335
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What? Sounds like the grievances of a disillusioned far-righty. McCain is a good candidate and a good man, and I respect his ability to think for himself and not be afraid to break from the party line. Some would call that self-serving...but that's better than party-serving.
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Ladyinabag
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Username: Ladyinabag

Post Number: 344
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 7:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think all of you have short term memory loss with remembering what a hot head McCain really is. He is a war monger like his buddies....another dangerous man. There has to be an intellectual way to solve our world problems rather than to shoot now and discuss it later. I read that Mit Romney plans to solve our energy problem with nuclear energy. "One step forward, two steps back." Well, maybe we should elect the woman who lets herself be humiliated by her husband. Just what we need.

(Message edited by Ladyinabag on January 13, 2008)
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Umtim
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Username: Umtim

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What do ya think about this

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/u p/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl= 5911409&ch=4226724&src=news
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My friends, McCain combines the worst of the Democratic Party with the worst of the Republican Party. He attacked free speech in McCain-Feingold. He is joining with Hillary and large pharmaceuticals to try to enforce UN standards to limit vitamin sales here. He supports NAFTA and other trade agreements that have hurt Detroit. He has supported the Patriot Act, the Real ID (may I see your papers?) and other pieces of legislation attacking our liberty. McCain is such a super hawk that he cannot be considered a moderate spender. The Iraq war has already bankrupted us.

Having said that, McCain is doing well in Michigan polls. About a month ago, his moribund campaign was revitalized by all sorts of favorable coverage by the MSM. That was followed with a Henry Kissenger endorsement and more media praise as the "comeback kid". If you want to know who is behind this guy, or other candidates, go to http://www.opensecrets.org/pre s08/moneyweb.asp?cycle=2008 . McCain is one of the top three recipients of money from bad loan troubled Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, and Goldman Sachs.

Rasmussen - Performed on January 9.
Romney 26% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
McCain 25% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Huckabee 17% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Thompson 9% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Ron Paul 8% (anti-war, anti-NAFTA)
Giuliani 6% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)

Mitchell Research - 1/ 9-10th
McCain 23% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Romney 17% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Huckabee 11% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Paul 8% (anti-war, anti-NAFTA)
Giuliani 8% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
Thompson 2% (pro-war, pro-NAFTA)
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4337
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone who is against NAFTA is against common sense. Blame Detroit for not keeping up in the NAFTA era.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3286
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

China and India aren't in North America.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 4458
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"He [McCain] is basically Granholm in a suit."

That's great news, I am happy to hear that he now pro-choice, anti-war, pro national health, and pro gay rights.

I wouldn't be surprised to see McCain win the nomination. He reminds me a lot of Bob Dole, a Steady-Eddie war-veteran you fall back on because the rest of your field ranges from dull to snake oil salesmen -- he is the least frightening of the bunch.
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Elviswithteeth
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Username: Elviswithteeth

Post Number: 61
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When will the American consumer demand a higher mpg vehicle? Oh, there are a few out there... like Toyota's Prius. Need I say more? Go McCain!
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Deandub11
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Username: Deandub11

Post Number: 204
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They will demand it when they need it. Gas is expensive, but not that expensive. The gas is taxed heavily in europe and thats why they all drive small cars with high mpg. It has nothing to do with us being Americans.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3288
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's with the gasoline and mpg obsession here? Haven't you been paying attention? Unless some massive store of oil is miraculously 'discovered' gasoline is not the fuel of the future.

and the state appears to be Romney's now anyway.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2834
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ame ricas/7086264.stm
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 1177
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell,

I understand your leanings, but how can you say that anything resembling Granholm is attractive in any way after what she has done to this state?

The surreal attitude of some of the people on this post is absolutely bizarre.

The auto industry is not the enemy of this city, it is and shall remain a significant percentage of the lifeblood that is required to bring about Detroit Rising.

One small sniff of reality would be helpful here.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3292
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trying to blame Granholm for everything that's happened in the state is asinine partisan politics and won't win any points.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 1178
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pretending that Granholm's complete mismanagement of her position is anything but inexcusable shows a lack of understanding of why we are in a one state recession and clearly a blind-eyed bias that won't win any points.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 209
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Went to see Romney at the rally at Lawrence Tech.
I feel he is committed to reviving the manufacturing sector of the U.S., something the others blew off.

Why would you support McCain when his policies on immigration and support of higher CAFE standards is a direct threat to our way of life here?
I don't want someone who thinks so well of themselves as to think that their legislation drives innovation!

If people WANT high mileage cars, market demand will drive auto companies toward that segment. Market demand is what drove the manufacturers to build SUVs if you remember.
So you think Government isn't meddling enough in the affairs of people and businesses eh?
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 377
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warrenite writes "If people WANT high mileage cars, market demand will drive auto companies toward that segment. Market demand is what drove the manufacturers to build SUVs if you remember. "


-No they may not offer cars with better milage, and consumers will be stuck with rotten mileage. Even if the market wants it, and the local economy could slide into further wreckage as is happening.

One could easily make the case that not building cars that get better milage because CAFE standards have NOT been increased has been devastating to the local economy. We have lost 200,000 jobs in 5 years in this state while gas prices have gone up. I have said it before. Had CAFE standards been increased, a decade ago, we would not be in the rotten economy we are in now.

I wish I had faith "In the Market" that car makers would get the message, but unfortunately it looks like they need a gun held to their head. Even MPG increases of 35-mpg may not be enough, when we could be possibly looking at $10 a gallon gas by 2020. Its time to pull our head out of the sand on this.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 915
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He has a chance because the media are pushing for a liberal republican who has an anger problem from his Stockholm syndrome, loves illegal alien crooks and likes to prevent individuals from giving money to candidates to vie against, and lose against any democrat opponent.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3294
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I wish I had faith "In the Market" that car makers would get the message, but unfortunately it looks like they need a gun held to their head. Even MPG increases of 35-mpg may not be enough, when we could be possibly looking at $10 a gallon gas by 2020. Its time to pull our head out of the sand on this."

I wish I had faith "In the Market" that fat, bellyaching states like California would provide consumer access to the alternative fuels already available in other states instead of trying to blame Detroit for the nation's oil dependency.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 386
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

35 MPG is lame. Since '99 my VW Golf's been getting 42 to 50 MPG. The new 2009 VW 2.0L clean diesel has 40% more horsepower, 33% more torque, and *more* MPG's than my 1.9L.
http://www.popularmechanics.co m/blogs/automotive_news/423558 6.html

In a perfect world scenario, my next car would be similar to VW's Polo (http://www.popularmechanics.co m/blogs/automotive_news/421990 4.html), get 60-70 MPG, and be made by a Michigan auto company in a Michigan plant. (The frosting would be a compressed air regenerative braking system or something similar, simple, and low maintenance.)

Oh yeah, I also want a biodiesel pump within a few miles of my house pumping some fresh Detroit crude.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3295
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not much retail biodiesel available in the nearer metro area, but the Ann Arbor & Ypsilanti Meijer's have it - different outlets in Taylor, Wixom, Centerline.

Retail Biodiesel Fueling Sites
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 380
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bravo Fishtoes2000! VW diesels are great cars. I don't drive one for work/political reasons, but would love one, and agree 100% with what you wrote:

"In a perfect world scenario, my next car would be similar to VW's Polo (http://www.popularmechanics.co m/blogs/automotive_news/421990 4.html), get 60-70 MPG, and be made by a Michigan auto company in a Michigan plant. (The frosting would be a compressed air regenerative braking system or something similar, simple, and low maintenance.) "

Last summer in Europe I rented a VW Golf Diesel and it got 52mpg- the difference was I was running at speeds in excess of 118mph on the Autobahn! I was able to fill it up with BioDiesel in Austria. It was a very comfortable car, and a shear pleasure and fun to drive.

And this is out of the box technology, I currently can't get here in the US at the moment.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3296
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't really compare cars in Europe to what's available in the US due to the different regulatory standards, but switching to biodiesel is not an issue aside from convenience of availability.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2839
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like how you all ignore this......... from lilpup..."Unless some massive store of oil is miraculously 'discovered' gasoline is not the fuel of the future".....

my response





http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ame ricas/7086264.stm
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 210
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cinderpath, the one thing the American auto market does not lack is choice.

When people complained that American cars all looked alike and had poor quality, the American car companies responded with better designs and quality.

It takes time to respond to the overnight changes in public preference. Had American companies given up on small and midsize cars in the past? Yes, when much of their profits were being made by minivans, trucks, and SUVs flying off the dealer lots. Are they now making a concerted effort to correct this with cars that have much better mileage, quality, and forward looking design? Absolutely.

Still, many of you sit on the fence and swear that no matter how good American cars get, you won't buy them. It's your money, do as you please. But don't sulk about the Detroit that was if you don't wish to become a part of what it COULD BE. Support the home team for once. American Autos ARE as good or better than Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans.

When you go to the Auto Show, make a point to look over what the home team offers. I'm an unemployed Chrysler worker and I would greatly appreciate it.
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 381
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Choice? Great- find me a good diesel powered small car? Oh yeah- I have to buy a FOREIGN one to do that. GM and Ford make them FOR EUROPE. How about good mid-sized diesel pick-up that actually gets decent milage? I can get that in Europe, Japan, China.... How about a decent station wagon, besides a Mercedes or BMW or Audi? Not everyone wants a truck or SUV and we do lack choice.


I'd love a great diesel powered American sedan, I only drive American products for personal reasons, but I have to tell you this is like the 1980's all over again when American car makers are stuck in the 60's and 70's and get caught with their pants down.

I am in full agreement with raising CAFE standards, and I don't believe for one minute it will cost jobs. The opposite is true, the standards have not been raised, consumption and demand has gone up, and the results have been disastrous for this state's economy.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 211
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Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe the diesel models in Europe are considered too dirty still for the American market. I could be wrong. I know Jeep Liberty Renegades a year or two ago were slated to have diesel engines. That project got killed either from lack of demand or the imported engines didn't pass emissions tests.

There seems to be so many fuel types vying for attention besides diesel.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 389
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Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The newest clean diesel engines from VW/Audi and Mercedes are 50-state certified. I read rumors of Honda bringing a 4-cylinder to the U.S. in 2009. Did anyone see that at the Show?
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Zephyrmec
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Username: Zephyrmec

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FYI, The Model T can't get anywhere near 35 MPG, more like 15-20, tops.
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Goggo
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Username: Goggo

Post Number: 192
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Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went back in time to 1985-6 and found a few cars that easily met the proposed 35 MPG minimum. Granted, they're small cars, but this was over 20 years ago... surely the auto industry has advanced the efficiency of engines, aerodynamics, etc., by now. Similar models made in the mid 90s and later didn't do so well. I'm guessing the later cars were geared and/or aspired to go faster because that's what people wanted at that time. If Americans don't care about 35 MPG, it's not going to happen. Only a revolution in the way we think about driving will achieve the need for the politicians' buzz-word proposal.

'85 and '86 models, as examples of when our memory of the '73 OPEC embargo still sparked interest in fuel economy:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg /noframes/78.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg /noframes/1982.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg /noframes/326.shtml

Although the way that the EPA figures fuel economy might be flawed, I've found it to be close to what I've experienced in real everyday driving. In fact, I had an '80 F150 and an '86 Sable wagon (both new at the time) that consistently did better than what the EPA rated MPG was.

Saddling GM, Chrysler and Ford with a mandate like this makes me believe that Washington has given up on Detroit.

"Small cars, small profits"
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3322
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Granted, they're small cars, but this was over 20 years ago... surely the auto industry has advanced the efficiency of engines, aerodynamics, etc., by now."

Regulations and safety standards have changed since then, too.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 218
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1981 VW Rabbit diesels used to get 51 MPG with a 4 speed stick shift. Sure they were not much bigger than a Chevy Chevette. They had that cool retro shoebox styling like Scion xb, and Hondas, back when shoeboxes weren't cool. Point A to point B only.
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Otter
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Username: Otter

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goggo,

Yes, customer preferences for more power have had something of a negative effect on increases in fuel economy. It is better technology that has enabled typical mileage to remain what it has with much better performance. Any given powertrain typically has much less fuel consumption than it would have had 25 or 30 years ago. One of the larger reasons fuel economy in the US fleet has not improved is weight - cars are porky suckers today. Even my winter car, a C-segment ("compact") car form the early 90s, weighs about 500 pounds less then most such cars weigh today. Removing weight is such a big plus because the benefits cascade down through the whole car and its subsystems. Not too surprised - pleased, eben! - when I read that GM may scrap existing plans for the C7 'Vette in favor of a smaller, lighter car that can meet future economy regs. Weight has gone up mostly because of: 1) safety and 2) equipment. It is easy to build a car that crashes really well, but a lot harder to do that withough making it heavier. And people today expect a lot more in terms of standard equipment than they used to.

David
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Sknutson
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Username: Sknutson

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mrs. McCain drives a Lexus and McCain's daughter a Toyota.

'nuff said, in my opinion.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 988
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MsMcLame Drives a Lexus,
So his family invests in companies that attacked America?

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