  Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 156 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hi everybody! I was hoping you could help me with a little project on "brain drain" I'm working on for a local university. Eventually we'll be surveying our outgoing students about their post graduation plans... why they might be leaving Detroit, what might make them stay, etc. I'd like to make sure I'm not missing any important topics. It would be a great help if some of you could share why you left Detroit, or why you decided to stay. I'm looking forward to hearing your stories. Thanks! | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 626 Registered: 02-2007 |
Have you considered building your survey around Maslow's hierarchy? Probably a better framework than anecdotes on a forum. | ||
Asbury Member Username: Asbury Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 |
hooha - I work for a market research company. Not sure if I can help but if you have any data gathering questions, please let me know | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 3619 Registered: 11-2003 |
I graduated from college in 1981, similar to now, everyone was leaving. Then it was for Texas, especially Houston and Dallas. I wanted to stay in MI because I have a huge family and lots of long time friends and frankly, I really do like the State. I decided that if I didn't have a job by Labor Day, 1981 I was leaving for Texas with a friend of mine. I have an accounting degree and my friend an engineering degree. We looked for jobs all Summer and in August of that year we both found them. We both started our jobs on 8/10/81 and we both still work for the same Companies - sort of with mergers and such. I have been offered many opportunities to leave but I have been happy and successful, enough for me and my family, and have always decided to stay in MI. That is my story | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1605 Registered: 02-2006 |
I graduated college in 2005, and after 4 months of unemployment and no offers, I took the first job that came along. They paid WELL below market rate, but I was almost broke. I put in my time there, and then was offered double my salary to move to Chicago and do the same thing. Sold. Been in Chicago ever since. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4597 Registered: 10-2003 |
I graduated college in 2002. I found a job at a good company fairly quickly. That job added great experience to my resume and portfolio. I only left that for a higher paying job in the area. I have no desire to leave the area. I see some things are slumping here, but I've heard/seen those things being a problem here off and on for my whole life. But I also see other things improving, things I never imagined improving in my lifetime. Overall I am optimistic, so bought my first home here while housing prices have been depressed. | ||
Evelyn Member Username: Evelyn Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2005 |
I graduated college in 2004, and stayed in Detroit to do historical research and freelance writing. After several years of temp jobs, poor city services, and the dawning realization that it took 50 years for this city to self-destruct, and it will likely take 50 more to rebuild, I decided to leave. I picked Albuquerque, NM, because I had a friend with a couch there, the scenery is lovely, and when streetlights burn out, they're replaced. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 99 Registered: 12-2007 |
I left due to the poor economy. As much as I wanted to stay, and as much as I want to return, the job market simply doesn't offer any opportunities for growth within my field in Detroit at the moment. I will be back some day though | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 677 Registered: 04-2006 |
I graduated undergrad in 2006, but always planned to return to detroit. I moved back here and just worked for a year, then I began grad school in fall 2007. I'm looking to buy a home ASAP to get in on the buyers market. I would never leave Detroit. My family has lived in the city for 7 generations, there are so many unique offerings in town, the majority of my friends live in or near the city, I think it is the world's premier sandbox for urban planning (my masters program), and I like the interesting combo of small town social circles + big city amenities/cred | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2226 Registered: 10-2006 |
I pretty much liked everything about Detroit except for the economy. It's really too bad... | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 882 Registered: 05-2007 |
There was not a compulsion to remain faithful to Detroit or Michigan as a place of residency. What mattered was what was best for myself and loved ones. In the end, the factors leading to my departure were economic and cultural opportunities, warm weather, and the best place to raise my family. | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2007 |
Why do I stay? I have a good job here. My main job skill is Detroit-specific. Plus all my loved ones have also stayed in Detroit. | ||
Izzadore Member Username: Izzadore Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2006 |
Left in 1998 Because the job market for IT/Networking is not as good in Detroit as it is in other places. When I worked in Michigan (doing IT stuff at Ford)and told folks what I did, it never really measured up to what 'Engineers' do... Still doesn't in the Detroit area. I've always felt like Detroit was the perfect place to be for a M.E. These guys can do so many different things and work at so many places. It's still the hardest major to declare at UMich. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 938 Registered: 03-2007 |
I was a school district superintendent in the '80's not too far from Detroit...got into a political fight with a board president...his kid wasn't getting enough playing time on the BB court to suit him...he wanted the coach fired...I wouldn't do it...the fight went public into the courts...I won...and...was blackballed by the MI Assoc. of School Boards...couldn't even get an interview for another job...it was time to leave Detroit and Michigan...since then I've only been back for funerals, weddings and a couple of ballgames in the last year of Tiger Stadium. It breaks my heart to watch what has happened to my city and state. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2517 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Not so. CE, CSE and BME programs had much more stringent requirements than ME two years ago. The ME department was practically begging people to declare... I left Michigan because 1) the economy and 2) I realized that other cities were doing it much better. Plus, there isn't much of a market in Detroit for the industry(ies) in which I'm interested. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4342 Registered: 02-2005 |
In a month or so I'll be deciding whether to move to Detroit or NY/NJ/PA, but this will be only for the second half of my education, not employment. My intention is to be in the city within five years after leaving, if I do have to go elsewhere for school. The last three generations of my family have been in Detroit or the immediate vicinity, so I have strong factors pulling back, and I genuinely like the city (though not many people who live in this larger area). | ||
Lo_to_d Member Username: Lo_to_d Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2007 |
Born and raised in the suburbs of Detroit... left for Chicago in 2003, came back in late 2006 to live in the City of Detroit and be closer to family. I left to live in a big city cause I was ignorant and didn't think the City of Detroit could offer the things I was looking for. I grew to despise Chicago (although it is a world class city which Detroit is not). A big contributor to the 'brain drain' is suburban detroit parent's encouraging their kids to check out and move to other cities far away, but most don't encourage them to learn their own city. Detroit has so much to offer but parent's teach their kids to fear it instead. I won't ever live in the suburbs of detroit again, because of the majority of people's attitude toward the city. However, I would not have came back to Detroit if I didn't see the progress in and around downtown. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 398 Registered: 01-2007 |
Most of my family & friends are here. That's it... that's all. When my parents are gone (hopefully not for many years, but at 78 and 81... who knows?), I plan to move to the UP. Some small place on the northern shore of Lk. MI. I went to NMU on the "sunny shores of Lk. Superior"! Retirement! | ||
Cas Member Username: Cas Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 |
My family and I left Detroit in 2003 and headed west for Portland, OR. We left primarily for two reasons: 1) My networking/field engineer job was about to disappear and 2) I wanted to raise my two girls in a safer, more kid-friendly area. However, in 2005 a gang-related murder occurred 300 feet from my kids' bedroom window which, to me, seemed highly ironic. My job in Portland wasn't anything special, so we picked up and moved again temporarily to Iowa and then back west to San Diego. My wife and I worked for my brother-in-law for 9 months helping out with his home theater business. Business slowed, so my wife was basically laid off and I went very part time and we both now work our dupas off at Target; she works evenings and I work nights. I've learned a lot in the last four years but the one thing that has really penetrated is this: Detroiters may think that the best lies somewhere else, but that is rarely true. So, we're moving again this summer but this time I'm coming back home because I miss our friends and I miss Detroit in all its splendor and misery. I'm applying to Schoolcraft College's culinary program to change my career path and I'm hoping to soon add to the growth of Detroit by adding a restaurant/cafe that emphasizes locally produced everything - meats, dairy, produce - because, believe me, Detroit has a lot to be really proud of and we should all promote that. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2564 Registered: 01-2005 |
Moved to southern Nevada upon retirement for the weather. Michigan winters suck. | ||
Bigd Member Username: Bigd Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 |
It's really sad to read all the disaffection and frustration that some of you feel with the city. Especially because it is the opposite of what I feel. I recently graduated from UM law school and moved to a downtown loft with my fiancee. I have a steady, good paying job and we are absolutely loving our time here. We've met many people our age, all of whom are excited about the rebirth of the downtown area. We discover something new almost daily. We had planned to be here only a year or two, then moving to the burbs, but now we are set on buying a loft or condo downtown to keep at least until we have children in 5-6 years. I think my experience is very similar to the other twenty-somethings who are discovering the city and moving back to downtown/midtown. I understand the frustration of those who have been here through the worst times, or who have been unable to find/keep a job. I just wish you could see the city anew through fresh eyes like I do now. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 907 Registered: 07-2007 |
Jobs, weather, travel. I came back to my tenth year reunion, and couldn't believe what I saw. The eighties were not good to the city. GoBlue - good for you. you got good character. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1357 Registered: 11-2003 |
Been here and don't plan on going anywhere. Yeah we have MANY black eyes but oh well. Only in Detroit could I have gone from nothing special to my business doing very well as a result of accessible "big wigs" and opportunities. My kids are in DPS- Burton International and I have no complaints. I just hate my current ghettohood- but I do my part to keep it looking spiffy. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 525 Registered: 04-2006 |
I am not from Detroit and have no family here. I ventured in "all by myself" in 2004 to go to grad school. When I told my family I was going to get my master's from Wayne State and move to Detroit, the first thing they said was, oh...what suburb are you looking for apartments in? My mom's first (chosen) impression of the city traveling from MSU down the Lodge was that locally infamous site in Highland Park with all of the abandoned and burned homes you can see from the freeway. They weren't very excited about me living in Detroit, but the supported my decision. After getting my new Midtown apartment situated, we went for a walk downtown in May so that I could show them all the things that I talk their ears off about when I go home to visit them. In 2004, everything was torn up and Campus Martius was still forming in the middle of town. They were very impressed with all of what they saw and at one point said, "I can't believe we're walking around in downtown Detroit!" At that point, I felt a turning point and knew that they felt better about what my desires were. They've enjoyed coming back ever since and even got some of the extended family to come down in the summer (from up way up north) to attend Tiger's games. Something that would not have happened in a million years. My family is as foreign to Detroit as Antarctica. They know that this is my home now and that if it was up to me, this is where I choose to stay for the long term. But as it turns out, I finally earned my master's degree in December and the job prospects in my field are very scarce, especially at my level of experience. Although, I choose to stay, I realize that I have to take advantage of job opportunities elsewhere that will get me on my feet and better suited to work my way back in the hopefully not-too-distant future. I planted my seed here and intend go invest as much of myself as possible in the city given the opportunity. Again, it's my home and I will always tell people I'm from Detroit. | ||
Markopolo Member Username: Markopolo Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 |
I was born here a tad over six decades ago. I have roots here since the 1870s. I have lived through and experienced both the city’s best and worst times. But most importantly, I love this old beat-up, tough-as-nails town and would not leave it for anything and I have had plenty of offers over the years to relocate. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 643 Registered: 10-2003 |
Received pink slips from DPS three times -- in April 2004, December 2004 & April 2005. The December layoff notice pushed me over the edge... it came on Christmas Eve, about an hour before I was to welcome family and friends for a holiday party. It was really the last straw. I applied for overseas teaching jobs and to graduate school programs. Got a job offer in the UK and an acceptance letter from a PhD program at the University of Michigan. I now live in Ann Arbor, but my heart is in Detroit. No idea what will become of me once I'm Dr. English. A corner of my heart wants a faculty position at Wayne State University. But the odds are slim, and my chairs encourage students to "go away" for their first jobs... so I'm mentally and emotionally prepping myself for the Big Move out of state in a couple of years... | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1166 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damn, I miss Rasputin. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 417 Registered: 09-2006 |
Originally from Canada, moved here in 1990, I immediately fell for the city of Detroit. It seemed like such a unique , edgy experience that I wanted to find out what it was about. The Historical aspect of the city, buildings, neighborhoods and industry only made it more interesting. Ofcourse the numerous social problems were evident but Ive long learned in life to not run from things if you dont feel compelled that you should. I for one thought that if you want the problems of this city to lessen then you need to contribute to the solution. I had a good income, keen sense of wanting to live in the city so I decided to move downtown. I met a ton of people who felt the same commitment and live in my neighborhood ( Lafayette Park), I moved to the burbs for three years (Huntington Woods)and moved back two years ago as I missed it. The answer was pretty simple, live in placed that me and my car are safe and that offered me closeness to things I enjoy downtown. Pretty well the same criteria most people use in most city living environments. The funny thing is three of my friends from the burbs have moved downtown in my area after they experienced what I have, They all love it and no intention of moving. Its been overall a good experience, Ofcourse there are some bumps but I have never lived in a city that didnt have them. The cost of living is so reasonable I still shake my head when talking to friends in Chicago, Vancouver, and Boston. The good thing is I keep meeting more people who are moving in this area for the same reason. We might be an exception I guess but I was recently told by some suburban friends that our area is full of people who "look like metro detroiters" whatever that means. Living in Detroit , at least here, is a good experience. This area is a place of diversity, stability and commitment to the city . I have no intention of leaving. (Message edited by DetroitBill on January 14, 2008) | ||
Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 157 Registered: 06-2005 |
Thanks for the responses everyone! Craig, the survey isn't going to be based on anecdotes. We're drawing most of our inspiration from surveys like the Michigan Cool Cities and similar ventures around the country. Thing is, most surveys we've looked at are pretty generic. "Would you like to live near jogging trails? Would you like to live near a downtown? etc. etc." I'd like to find some issues that affect Metro Detroiters more to see if we can dig into those a little deeper. Like how the economy affects our region a lot more than other areas. Asbury, if you know of any surveys like Cool Cities, I'd love to take a look at them. Otherwise we're good, but thanks for the offer! | ||
Frankg Member Username: Frankg Post Number: 153 Registered: 08-2007 |
My family moved out of Detroit (Outer Drive/Gratiot) in 1971 when I was 10 years old, and moved to Lansing. In 2004 I graduated from University of Florida with my PhD and moved back to Detroit for my job. It was great living in Florida (and away from my large, nosey family!) but now that I am back I like living here better. Besides, my family has roots in Detroit that predate 1840. Now I am planning to retire this Spring and figure I'll start an academic career here, at OU, WSU, MSU, etc. I am keeping my job search local and do hope to stay in the Detroit area, if not in Detroit itself. Have you considered building your survey around Maslow's hierarchy? Probably a better framework than anecdotes on a forum. I don 't think this is a good idea. Maslow's researchmethods leave a lot to be desired, and his model does not stand up to scrutiny. I don't know of any reputable scientific journal that would publish a study based on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs anymore, although many Organizational Behavior textbooks still teach it. Why? Because 20 years ago when the instructor was getting his or her PhD Maslow was hot. That's my guess. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 633 Registered: 02-2007 |
If Asbury works for Pulte you could just lift his survey, verbatim. Developers & homebuilders have what you want down to a science. No joke re: Maslow. Done properly you'll have an array of lifestyle & amenity options to be selected & ordered (ranked or conjoint). Append demos & behavior/intended behavior, spin out a cluster analysis and we'll watch for the published paper. Caution - get too topical and your study will be a referendum centered around the classic wedges, and most of us only need a beer or two to predict exactly what you'll find & publish. | ||
Daf Member Username: Daf Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2007 |
Came to D from the burbs in 83 for architecture and real estate value (nice neighborhood, too - 6/Telegraph near Lodge elementary). Left for a job in DC in 87. Returned in 93, having acquired a taste for the countryside, now in St. Clair County near Capac: beautiful place with a miserable commute. I'd come back to Detroit in a heartbeat if Mrs. Daf agreed. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 123 Registered: 07-2007 |
The number one reason people are leaving Metro Detroit is lack of jobs. Even if things get worse for the rest of the country, they'll still have plenty of places to look first before they end up here. (Notice the table is for the entire metro areas of those cities.) | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 924 Registered: 07-2007 |
^ the reason why most people leave most cities. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 124 Registered: 07-2007 |
No, most people leave cities for the better schools in the suburbs or BETTER jobs/career opportunities in another city, not because they couldn't find jobs in the entire area. (Message edited by GreatLakes on January 17, 2008) | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 822 Registered: 10-2003 |
Due to a divorce in 1976, my mom and five siblings ended up as part of the mass exodus to the sunbelt and have been part of Arizona ever since. I spent a couple years in middle school and a couple years of college out there in the desert, but thank god my dad stayed in Michigan because it gave me a reason/excuse to discover my deep roots in this town. As I always say to friends and family, if I leave Detroit, I will be leaving the United States. Canada, Spain, New Zealand, or any other place that has the freedom we like to pretend we still have. Y Detroit? First and foremost is the freedom to be me among the caste of characters/misfits that are drawn to such a place. As America is homogenized, I find refuge in a place abandoned by Corporate America and relish in the fact that national chains continue to pass us over. Beginning with the heroic American tale of Coleman Young and continuing with our current leadership, Detroit is a black power city controlled by folks very intimate with the underlying hypocrisy of the American Experiment...thus a four hundred year odyssey...making said leaders particularly sensitive to demanding America to live up to its ideas of freedom, democracy, equality, etc. Like a warm blanket in the face of the fascist trends taking place countrywide. And yes, I have the luxury of being raised by an entrepreneur who trained my to not seek a job, but a yob (your own business). And I don't care what anybody says, the pissing and moaning, etc. Detroit is a huge market of unfilled needs and thus...an entrepreneurs wet dream. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3308 Registered: 06-2004 |
You know, the thing that's oftentimes hardest about staying here really is how much the city and state get bashed. Some of the stuff I've read since the primary has been worse than I ever expected a primary result could spawn. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 884 Registered: 05-2007 |
Histeric, your post articulates a view similar to that held by some friends and family remaining in Detroit. Reading your post reminds me of discussions had over the years (not so much anymore though). Though I don't hold these views, I somewhat understand them. And I recall the near-ecstatic joy in many optimistic people at the start of the "American tale of Coleman Young". | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 535 Registered: 05-2004 |
I wonder how ecstatic people are now who voted for Kwame. Onward and upward. Notice how many people who are pleased with Detroit live downtown and not in the neighborhoods. | ||
Lifeinmontage Member Username: Lifeinmontage Post Number: 57 Registered: 10-2007 |
I was born and raised in the suburbs of Detroit. I still have a strong attachment to and love for Metro Detroit and more specifically the city proper. However, I had to go to New York for film school, and will subsequently move to Los Angeles after graduation this Spring. I can't wait to move back Detroit if film production continues in the area. I'd love to start a production company in the city after gaining some industry experience. This is of course decades down the line. | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 161 Registered: 05-2007 |
I left Detroit in 1976 after living in the city for the first 25 years of my life. The only reason was crime. I had cars vandalized when parked on the street in front of my apartment, and the mailboxes in the apartment lobby were pried open more than once. Time to move on. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1392 Registered: 11-2003 |
I wonder how ecstatic people are now who voted for Kwame. Onward and upward. ^^^^ ha ha... maybe Detroit needs a Sigma man in charge. Onward and Upward hasn't worked for the past two mayors | ||
Detbest Member Username: Detbest Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2005 |
I left for good in '99. I was born and raised in Detroit and returned shortly after graduating from college. I worked in Detroit for a few years as an adult and left to go to grad school in Ann Arbor. Initially, I believed that I would return back home to Detroit after grad school. The two years in grad school really gave me time to realize that many of my hopes and dreams for my city unfortunately would probably not be realized. I did not want to invest some of my more productive years in a city that I loved dearly but didn't believe its citizens wanted and were willing to demand meaningful change. I felt it would be too painful and cause me to grow bitter given the direction I saw things going. I was just shy of my 30th birthday when I moved to Chicago. I return home to Detroit frequently for work, family things and each and every time realize that my views back then were pretty accurate and my decision has been pretty much justified. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 356 Registered: 03-2007 |
At thirteen, my parents moved us to the suburbs. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 1005 Registered: 10-2003 |
Made the semi-manditory hippie move to Colorado after I got my degree in '72, as the old line retailers I worked for (National Shoe, Edison Brothers) began to drop by the wayside. Hated working in malls, and downtowns (both Detroit's and the suburbs) were drying up as retail venues. Left Colorado in '77 for central Washington state, and have been here ever since. Don't miss the big city. ANY big city. My burg has 50,000 in the metro area and it's getting too big...... | ||
Eaglelv Member Username: Eaglelv Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2007 |
I started a similar post last week "thinking of moving back to Detroit??" I retire from the service in 13 months and will start my 2nd career then.... this thread further solidifies my decision to move back to the "D". I am in the middle of a Masters program called "Global leadership sustainable development" and from the looks of it Detroit is a perfect area to put that knowledge to use. | ||
Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly Post Number: 783 Registered: 09-2004 |
After almost 15 years in the US and 6 1/2 years in the city of Detroit, I will be leaving in a few months to go back home, to Europe. I'm homesick. After raising my son to adulthood and a successful life, it's time for me to leave. I can't stand this country, although I've come to love this city. My son says Detroit will always be his home town (he now lives in LA). Me - I will always speak up for the city, regardless of where I live. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 874 Registered: 01-2004 |
I moved back because I felt a lack of culture in Colorado. I also wanted to do good and make a positive impact in the world. To do that I couldn't leave my hometown hanging. I'm moving to Grand Rapids because I was offered a promotion there. But I can not pass up opportunity because I'm tied to this city. I will be back. | ||
Evelyn Member Username: Evelyn Post Number: 60 Registered: 02-2005 |
I do miss the city and Michigan's lakes... and as much as I hate to be another statistic, I had to leave Detroit to find a job. I'd like to come back, all my family is in MI. If the economy would ever pick up! |
