Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Can Detroiters live with the state of city education? Previous Next
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm getting ready to put my rehabbed Detroit house up for sale and am making the debate once it's sold of whether to leave the state _ without the house one has more freedom _ move to a cooler part of the city (my first choice actually) or a more liveable neighborhood in another community. When it comes to the public education part of weighing the pros and cons, I'm content with Detroit -- if I have kids, I'm shelling out the bucks for private school or they'd go to a good charter school, and I will choose to live in a 'hood where my kids can play with other kids from caring families. DPS is not getting fixed anytime soon and private and charters are good albeit slightly pricey options. Do other people feel the same way? Crime COULD improve. Liveablity - like retail, cleanliness, clost of living _ could improve. But I don't see that happening to schools but I'm content with my other options.
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 204
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 8:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In areas where parents are fully engaged with the education of their kids, the public schools can be quite good. Test scores are one indication, but only an indication. They should never be used as a definitive measure.
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Trstar
Member
Username: Trstar

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanpioneer are you from Detroit? Have you looked at individual schools, or just DPS as a whole?

Several schools within DPS provides an outstanding educational experience.

It not that the system is bad. Its just wildly insistent. Few above average, some average, and still more below average.
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, I live in Detroit, and I'll give you there are some decent schools. But they still may just be decent. Even though you can point to Cass Tech and Renaissance and King as great examples of high schools _ plus there are the foreign language immersion schools and other specialty schools _ it seems much better to just say if you live in Detroit, the BEST approach to education is to concede and send to private school. Maybe my mind will change.
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Trstar
Member
Username: Trstar

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The BEST approach to education is to support the QUALITY PUBLIC schools. Charter schools? Pffft. From my experience, parents choose charter schools for perceived security - NOT education.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1612
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are some good High Schools. The issue is making sure your kid stays out of trouble and on track by the time he/she reaches high school so that your kid can be accepted to previously mentioned good schools.
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Gianni
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Username: Gianni

Post Number: 341
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are good and not so good DPS schools and good and not so good private schools and good and not so good public schools in the burbs. At least in Detroit we don't have high school kids who all the neighbors said were "good kids" but were (allegedly) cutting of the heads and fingers of the murder victim like those kids from Canton (a highly regarded suburban district) a few months ago. More concretely, I have two girls who attended Chrysler for respectively, 2 and 6 years. They both did extremely well academically and very well socially, considering we don't have many grade school kids in our immediate neighborhood. This year we put them in private schools, the older one because she "graduated" from Chrysler, and the younger one because we didn't like the 2nd grade teacher at Chrysler. (0ur friends who are still at Chrysler say the 2nd grade teacher has improved a lot this year). I can tell you that while we are happy with the new schools it's not perfect and there are many things we miss about the DPS school. There are some really good teachers and both of my kids learned things there in lower grades that they have yet to get to in the higher grades at their new schools.

I hear Burton is really good as well as Bates. And King, Renaissance and Cass Tech. But I can only speak personally about the elementary schools. The good schools are there you just have to dig a little.
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Detmi7mile
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Username: Detmi7mile

Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good to hear Chrysler is still a great school. I went there and I remember being there when we were part of the Red Book America's best schools. Memories memories lol.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2527
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has Detroit ever been a stickler for education?

Sure, Detroit has had it's share of extremely successful schools, which is to be expected in any wealthy area... But the backbone of Detroit's economy never required the masses to be educated.

For an area so large and so historically wealthy, it is pretty lacking on upper level educational opportunities. Of the top 5 largest cities in the country in 1950- New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Detroit- Detroit is the only one of these cities not to have an ivy league (or ivy league equivalent) school within the city proper. So maybe Detroit was doomed when U-M was moved to Ann Arbor?

By virtue of being the manufacturing capital, the bulk of the population was only required to get a high school education in order to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle.

Well, all that is over now! What's striking is that cities like Dallas and Atlanta, cities that were only a fraction of the size of Detroit as recently as the 80s, have built economies eclipsing Detroit in terms of GDP by tapping into knowledge based economies.
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is LAs Ivy League Equivalent?
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2528
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

USC and UCLA.
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2840
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cl here, just want to clear up the lies posted by trstar. It seems someone always pops up to propogate these lies about charter schools; trstar is just the latest.

To refresh I have a close associate that heads a charter program.She with help of staff sets up schools, monitors them and makes sure they are in compliance.

She makes no great claims.Only that on average charters perform about the same as other schools. My friend has no reason to color the books so to speak. As a long time urban top administrator the only thing she brings is a good dose of realism and a whole lot of experience.

Once she did tell me that inner city kids are not getting the education they deserve.To her this is the greatest civil rights issue in our society today. Charters are an avenue to help rectify that. And to repeat what I have posted before my friend is a very liberal democrat.

So pardon my intrusion all, but when the bullshit starts on this topic (charters) I will be hee to refute it. And lastly charters are public schools

(Message edited by citylover on January 16, 2008)
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Trstar
Member
Username: Trstar

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lies? No. Fact based observations - Yes.

Speaking as a parent, I have personally spoken with SEVERAL city residents who have investigated charter schools. Charter schools, in general, have not clearly demonstrated academic superiority of the better DPS schools. It is the perceived safety of the students, given the smaller size, that is valued.

Getting back on topic - the decision to choose a private school, or even a charter school, when several quality DPS schools, with proven track records, are available, IMHO does not seem to be decision based on education.
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Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More power to those that send their kids to public schools and are fully engaged in the process. Congrats to those forging a new way with charters. Homeschooling, I salute your determination and time. We chose a private school in the city for a lot of reasons including the ability to afford it. It was a "decision based on education," I thoroughly investigated our options, visited the schools and made an informed decision that was right for us.
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Trstar
Member
Username: Trstar

Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 3:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

@Mackcreative,

Amen.
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2841
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 6:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You did not read what I wrote carefully trstar. Charters perform about the same as public schools.Charters are public schools.The dps has charter schools.

My guess and it is probably a good one is that you have a vested interest.
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Elviswithteeth
Member
Username: Elviswithteeth

Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 6:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Satisfied with...decent? Thats a shame! So much for wanting better for the children/students of the future.
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Sg9018
Member
Username: Sg9018

Post Number: 130
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The superintendent of the Detroit Public Schools Dr. Connie Calloway had a tv interview on Fox 2 News

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5518131&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

I think she will do a good job. Many people around Detroit saids she can fix DPS. Here is some links to freep articles,

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/OPINION02/712180324/1001

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20071218/OPINION01/712180325/1001

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/OPINION01/712180325/1001

She seeks criminal charges in connection with its risk management office. It sounds like she knows what is going on in DPS. She talks the talk but, can she walk the walk? Only time could tell.

(Message edited by sg9018 on January 17, 2008)

(Message edited by sg9018 on January 17, 2008)
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Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am amazed that no new thread has been started regarding wasteful spending by DPS. It is up as reported by the Free Press. More spent this year than last year. This, after a similar report last year resulted in the board promising spending reform. Dr. Calloway cannot be blamed since her tenure was so brief during this reporting time frame. Add to this, the waste that resulted from school closures that resulted in lost texts and equipment is enough to break ones heart.

The DPS was one of the leading school systems in the nation until about 1960. I attended Finney Junior and Sr. High in the Sixties, graduating in 1971. I considered my education was very good. I did very well on the SAT and ACT. I was accepted at U of M, MSU but chose WSU, graduated in 1975. The last few years at Finney were troubling because of escalating school violence.

I was a Detroit resident and home owner when our eldest son was school age. We started him in a private school in Grosse Pointe Park but later, at the recommendation of a friend sent our son to Chrysler. Great school overall.

We have lived in Northville...great schools, Macomb Township...great elementary and middle schools. Moved a little closer to home, Grosse Pointe Park...great schools. I have observed that good leadership that monitor teacher competence,school safety and parental involvement are the key.

We are back in Detroit as empty nesters. "Cool Cities" are fine but what will drive "Next Detroit" are stable residential neighborhoods with good, why not great schools.

Love this forum but the spelling errors on so many posts make me wonder how many contributors are products of the DPS system as it exists today?

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