  Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 845 Registered: 02-2004 |
After awhile, it just looks like he's against the plan not being his, but hey... its politics I guess. A day before Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano was expected to unveil an expansion plan for Cobo Center, Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson blasted the proposal as "riddled with unanswered questions." Patterson criticized Ficano's plan, which includes $323 million for a 120,000-square-foot expansion as well as building walkways connecting to the Renaissance Center and Sheraton Detroit Riverside, early Wednesday on the "The Frank Beckmann Show" on WJR (760 AM). "Don't tell me that this is a $323 million project when we can do the math and come up with $846 million," Patterson told Beckmann on Wednesday. "That's the true number we should be talking about." Read the rest here http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/M ETRO/801170408 (Message edited by Genesyxx on January 17, 2008) | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 4554 Registered: 02-2007 |
Typical "give us the benefit, just don't expect us to pitch in" obstructionist brooks | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2536 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ficano doesn't have anything better to do now than worry about a new Cobo? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2242 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Ficano doesn't have anything better to do now than worry about a new Cobo?" Not since L. Brooks has made such an issue out of the subject... | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 348 Registered: 07-2007 |
I'm surprised that anyone is being taken in by this act. Brooks is going to stomp his feet until he's extracted whatever goodies he thinks he can get for Oakland County. Then he'll declare victory and be all smiles. The last thing he wants to see happen is for a deal to come together on Cobo that leaves him sitting on the sidelines. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2007 |
A simple street-level canopied walkway to the Sheraton would be fine, and there's no reason the hotel shouldn't pay half, but this walkway to the Ren Cen would be ugly, unecessary and a huge waste of money that nobody has. I hope Patterson wins out on this part. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3243 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Typical "give us the benefit, just don't expect us to pitch in" obstructionist brooks" He seems to have a legitimate complaint according to the article. If Ficano is telling him $300m and Oakland county is doing the math and it's coming to $800m, that's something Oakland county needs to be concerned about, especially since OC is probably going to end up paying the largest share of this. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2243 Registered: 10-2006 |
I thought that it was to be funded through an extended tax on hotels essentially. How much does Oakland County have on the table to contribute? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3244 Registered: 06-2006 |
"I thought that it was to be funded through an extended tax on hotels essentially. How much does Oakland County have on the table to contribute?" The bulk of SE Michigan's hotels. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 350 Registered: 07-2007 |
Oakland County isn't giving up a cent in current revenue. That money is already diverted. Brooks is objecting to future revenues that would be diverted that he believes would otherwise come to the county. Based on how Oakland County government is projecting to run a deficit, he's probably eager to get his hands on that revenue stream. But there's no guarantee that Oakland County would ever see that money. Once the current Cobo obligations have been met, there's nothing to stop the state from taking that revenue and diverting it to Lansing. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3248 Registered: 06-2006 |
^um, is it possible that we have a situation here where an elected official isn't simply concerned with a potential future revenue stream that may or may not flow directly into his county's bank account, but is instead doing actually doing his job by lobbying on behalf of businesses that he represents by voicing their concerns over taxes that will cut into THEIR revenue stream? | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 527 Registered: 12-2006 |
thejesus, businesses don't pay taxes. We pay their taxes for them. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1047 Registered: 09-2005 |
^ When it comes to L. Brooks, no, it's not possible. If nothing else, old Brooksie is playing to the "I Hate Detroit" voters in White Lake Township and other boondocks. How much it costs is irrelevant; he would still bitch - loudly. The only thing that really concerns Brooks is......Brooks. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 1051 Registered: 09-2005 |
Could anyone come up with a more stupid idea than a riverfront pedway linking Cobo to the Ren Cen? Not only would it be expensive and ugly (and stupid) why make the DPM redundant? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11200 Registered: 10-2003 |
The hotel tax is paid by the consumer (many if not most from out of state or out of region). That point is still falling on deaf ears. I'll be on the road for the better part of the next month and I will probably pay a couple hundred dollars in hotel taxes during that time. The citizens of the cities that I will be in will not be paying. Until people see through LBP's less than honest approach to this the issue will stay, like this region, stagnant. How dare we tax tourists and visitors. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 4559 Registered: 02-2007 |
considering how much an enhanced convention center will benefit OC hotels, rest. and bars, he is being quite short-sited. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 528 Registered: 12-2006 |
Rb336, His constituency is short-sighted so it is hardly shocking. | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 98 Registered: 03-2007 |
"The bulk of SE Michigan's hotels." Is that for sure? "Could anyone come up with a more stupid idea than a riverfront pedway linking Cobo to the Ren Cen? Not only would it be expensive and ugly (and stupid) why make the DPM redundant?" All this talk about walkable urban environments and they want to separately contain visitors in important buildings by isolation them from the outside? How does this help Downtown retail, restaurants, etc? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3249 Registered: 06-2006 |
Jt1: Let's say the city where you will be visiting decided to build a convention center that ended up costing 3x what was projected, forcing them to charge hotels in the area a hotel tax that is 3x greater than expected. Would you say that visitors paying 3x normal hotel taxes would make people more likely or less likely to stay at hotels in that city assuming that a suitable alternative is available? You with me now? There's a reason the hotels are telling Brooks to get out there and lobby against this plan until some questions are answered and these fears that it could cost far more than projected are put to rest. Nobody is trying to kill this project. Brooks has stated time and time again the importance of Cobo, which he refers to as a "critical regional asset". Those involved just want to make sure we know what we're getting into. I'm sure Ficano knows...he just needs to share what he knows with the others involved. (Message edited by thejesus on January 17, 2008) | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 679 Registered: 04-2006 |
that pedway is idiotic. why not spend whatever was allocated for that portion on making two little side areas on the people mover track so that for like 100 yards in two places it was two way... aka passing lanes... that way it could be a two way track and basically go directly from rencen to cobo, cobo to rencen. If everything else was set up (computer system, railcars, stations), what could that really cost? | ||
Chris_rohn Member Username: Chris_rohn Post Number: 386 Registered: 04-2005 |
I am 100% anti elevated walkway. Make people walk across the street. If they're cold, they can buy a coffee at the Bean Bar. This proposed gerbil trail from Cobo to the Reniassance Center is one of the most ridiculous wastes of money I can think of. As mentioned above, the people mover already provides a heated method of transporting yourself from Cobo to the RenCen. It would be faster to use and its already built. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3250 Registered: 06-2006 |
^I agree, and I have yet to hear anyone but Ficano voice support for this... Shoot, someone could be PAYING Wayne County $25m to be able to build this thing and it would still be a bad idea. I think Ficano has been having too much fun riding on the walkway at Somerset mall or something | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2842 Registered: 07-2004 |
I read the link. And what I know for sure is that it is about time for the annual LBP is evil thread. From my comprehension he was asking reasonable questions. For example Patterson challenges the cost estimate.Is that unreasonable? Hardly. My suggestion to you all is that you get together and buy Brooks a house in the city. And then draft him to run for Mayor. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6987 Registered: 02-2004 |
Who cares about L.B. Patterson. He's not interested for the expansion of Cobo Hall. He's worried about his election year against Southfield mayor Brenda Lawrence. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11201 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You are off course assuming that LBP's numbers are the correct ones. Given that he has fought this I question the integrity of his numbers. I am sure the truth is somewhere in between but is certainly not the astronomical number. In addition they would be able to arbitrarily increase the tax. Now as a frequent business traveler the taxes (which are ridiculous in some areas) have no bearing on where we travel for work. I think that you need to travel more and look at the numbers elsewhere. You have bought in to LBP's claims that a tax on hotels will hurt travel to the region. Just is not true. I recommend that either you look at the taxes when you travel or you travel more. If you did you wouldn't be suckered into this argument so easily. You with me? \quoteThere's a reason the hotels are telling Brooks to get out there and lobby against this plan until some questions are answered and these fears that it could cost far more than projected are put to rest.} I am fine with looking into the costs (and scrapping things like the walkway) but LBP is doing nothing to help the process. Every step of the way he has fought with little or no cooperation. quote: Actions speak much louder than words. quote: Hard to share info when people aren't willing to cooperate. Ficanos plan certainly has some fat but LBP is being nothing more than an obstructionist. This quote speaks volumes about how much OC wants to be involved in the process: "We need to see a formal commitment" from the state, Detroit's Big Three automakers, city leaders and Macomb County, he said." OC is essentially saying, get everyone else involved then we may cooperate. Nice neighbors. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11202 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Asking valid questions is one thing. Throwing out numbers and announcing 'I won't help until there are firm committemnts from everyone else' speaks volumes about LBPs cooperation. The numbers need to be looked at but just saying "our numbers are higher but we won't cooperate until..." is LBPs pattern throughout this entire process. Obviously you don't believe in the theory that, in order to argue against something you need to offer up other solutions because the only thing LBP has offered up is his 'additional casino' option that has no chance. Now this is where you tell us how LBP knows more about the city, and cares more about the city than the rest of us. In essence LBP is announcing that he is going to quit and take his football home until everyone has solidly committed, then he'll think about it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3252 Registered: 06-2006 |
"LBP is being nothing more than an obstructionist." That's quite an analysis. You seem to have him all figured out. He's not really concerned about any of the issues he's raising...he just wants to be an obstructionist! Brilliant! I honestly expected that you'd have more to offer to this conversation. | ||
Detroitpharmstudent Member Username: Detroitpharmstudent Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2007 |
This is crazy! How long will this be carried out. I realize it is a huge amount of money to be spent, but would other major metro areas really take so many years to negotiate such an important deal? I bet these type of problems persist til a new generation of city/county leaders take office in 15-20 years. They really need to get going for future economic sake of everyone in the area. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10014 Registered: 10-2003 |
Walkways destroy the concept of walkable cities. We lament that there is little foot traffic in Detroit yet these people want another walkway off of the ground. This region is so tired and worn out with the same people coming up with the same stupid arguements and plans. It is no wonder we are in the proverbial shit heap. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1185 Registered: 10-2003 |
walkway = bad idea |
