Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Kilpatrick to unveil economic stimulus plan next month Previous Next
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Sg9018
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Username: Sg9018

Post Number: 131
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kilpatrick will soon present a economic stimulus package proposal for the city of Detroit.
This economic package will be used for new police buildings and fire stations, a neighborhood entrepreneurship fund, a public works jobs fund, a neighborhood presentation fund, a health and human services fund and fiscal stabilization fund.
more in freep,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080118/NEW S01/80118044
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2548
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does the city need new police buildings?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 11222
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Might help address a lot of the outstanding issues with the DOJ oversight. Building new may be much easier than trying to retrofit older buildings for the needs of the police.

I like the new place on Fort street in SW that combines some functions.
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 512
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why do I ever click on "view comments" at the Freep???
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Izzadore
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Username: Izzadore

Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is good news!

Let's hope the financial funds and police stations begin to address neighborhoods outside of Detroit's much talked about (on this forum) Downtown.

It's good to see him talking about it more but I wish he didn't give the speech at the Detroit Economic Club. The Mayor has to give this type of speech in a neighborhood in need of investment.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4686
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What do you mean Udmph, you don't find these type of comments constructive and insightful?

quote:

How about a free needle exchange with a convenient sample pack of crack?

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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1528
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We are the cavalry."

TERRIFIC!
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 535
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 6:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "Why do I ever click on "view comments" at the Freep???"

Because misery loves company?
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 500
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've decided to stop reading the Freep forums, or even trying to post.

They're asinine and somehow they attract the lower class of debate. Even if I don't agree with some folks on here, very rarely does it degenerate into childish, uninformed, racist drivel. It is completely an example of online discourse gone bad - and I'm not sure why. I don't want to believe people in general are that messed up in the head. Rarely do I say this, but the Freep is a case study where adding a "social" component adds no value to the content, and probably devalues it.

As a side note to shine a little more, I talked to a couple folks who went (I wish I had, it turns out I was around on a day when I didn't think I would be) and they said KK makes such a compelling case for the city, and did a great job of lining out all the problems the city has and say he's working to address them.

That humility wasn't in his first term; and is great to see he seems to be maturing and becoming a better bridge-builder.

p.s. - Thanks guys and gals for 500 posts. It's been a great four plus years on here, I've grown and learned a lot, and am glad to count some of you as my good friends.

(Message edited by digitalvision on January 18, 2008)
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 656
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dont be an intellectual snob Digitalvision. Many posters let their emotions get in the way of rational thinking, and then there are others who take the time to research the pros and cons of an issue but arent quite as articulate as the person who was raised in Huntington Woods or upperclass Bloomfield Hills.My problem is memory loss. I love reading and learning about the daily functions of city government; philosophy; the complexities of economics etc. and try to be objective, as well as taking the time to do the research but there is so much information, so many viewpoints, it can be exhausting after working two jobs and dealing with lifes obstacles.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 945
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Udmphikapbob, But bob, it is a intellecual cesspool of free thought :-) Daily media confusion conversion is the name of the game.
I laughed because I thought the same thing after posting 1 item on it.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 502
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 2:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terryh, I want to be clear that I enjoy a lot of your posts and think you have a lot to offer. I don't always agree with you, but I think that your working to understand is what we're all doing. Lord knows I don't understand everything, nor will I ever. Nor am I perfect.

That said, I work 50-70 hours a week, have life's obstacles, yet I still endeavor to be articulate, because, well, that's how I was raised because yes, I do originally come from a community like the ones you mentioned. I admit, I am very lucky in that some family members of mine were very active in the Detroit social community as well as the labor movement, so was blessed to learn a lot at an early age about how things function - and why they function. If your family is debating Detroit politics across the table at the age of 8, you pick up a few things - especially when they're on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

I was taught by my Detroit-loving, Detroit-living grandmother, great aunts, and great uncles that unless you are going to speak so you are understood and use the proper verbiage, don't bother. This has served me well in business and in networking, and I attempt to use it as a tool for good in supporting the city, being able to relate the city's story to people who have a singular perception of it due to their bias that was (usually) ingrained to them by their parents or some propaganda.

So, I learned quickly that being able to communicate results in people taking you seriously. I won't apologize for that.

There is a big difference from making an effort to be constructive and someone who lets their emotions get ahold of them and spews racist vitriol on a regular basis which means - they're a racist, at their core. I don't like racists. I don't want to fraternize with racists or shortsighted people. That kind of wasted energy could be put to so, so much good, but instead is wasted on bringing others down.

There is a common saying that you are like who you hang out with - if you hang out with successful people, you will be successful. If you hang out with people who like to throw pity parties or rain on anything positive, you'll get nowhere fast. I, too, only have so much time (four years and 500 posts, I'm not exactly prolific). But, I have learned (for the most part) to chime in when it's valuable and I can add something. Other times, I usually try to just listen. People have two ears and one mouth for a reason - listen twice as often as you speak. More Freep.com forum posters need to follow that, IMHO.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 291
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 3:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The FREEP readers are by and far suburbanite and probably have racist feelings. they can't help it they hide out there in white town and don't understand what it is like to live somewhere more exciting than Macomb or Oakland.
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My bet is this is nothing new but political posturing --- sometimes kilpatrick's adage is if you have nothing nice to say, making up something that seems nice. He talked about this last year and it went nowhere, and I think one reason is the city's books are in miserable shape. My predictions: 1. He'll either propose a new bond issue or an added bond issue that will take voter approval OR he will use previously approved bond money council and he haven't gotten around to spending. 2. He'll simply take pre-existing cash _ either from casino development dollars or added casino dollars or grant money _ and say he's going to spend it exclusively on X, Y and Z -- it's money he was going to spend anyway, he'll just repackage it.
The equation doesn't work --- how will you be able to spend more money when your revenue streams are shrinking?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1405
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"economic stimulus plan"?
This plan sounds like a very slow and inefficient way to stimulate the local economy.
Then again, if politician can call tax revenues an "investment", I guess they can call government spending an "economic stimulus".
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2256
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Then again, if politician can call tax revenues an "investment", I guess they can call government spending an "economic stimulus"."

It worked at the federal level during the Great Depression--could it work on a smaller scale for the city?
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 534
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlottepaul,

In reality, it took us a war to pull us out of the depression. Maybe Detroit should actually have that war with Livonia we were joking about last year.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2258
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL. Yeah, it has been a while since Detroit was the "arsenal of democracy."
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Dpd_blue
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Username: Dpd_blue

Post Number: 202
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KK will probably announce the construction of a new central holding facility and the renovation of 1300 Beaubien. If I remember correctly didn't they pass a tax levy 6 or 7 years ago to pay for new fire stations and police facilities.

Nothing like waiting awhile to replace these antiquated buildings.
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W_chicago
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Username: W_chicago

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Government spending can generate positive economic activity (that is, yield a Pareto optimal efficiency gain). Tax cuts are NOT the only way to generate economic activity. The city of Detroit could invest in new infrastructure, or provide more services to individuals and businesses. The same is true for the federal government. If the federal government spent a considerable amount less on military expenditures, there would be billions upon billions of tax money to spend on social services(i.e. health care), without raising taxes, that could yield to more people becoming more productive (i.e. now i don't have to pay for health care, i will start a small business in Detroit.. or now my employees have health care provided, so I can invest more into actual production).
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2260
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TOTALLY A THREAD JACK HERE, but ever wonder if Kwame (or for that matter anyone in Detroit City government) reads any of the posts on DetroitYES!?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1405
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Charlottepaul, as random as your post was, this is the World Wide Web, so my guess is yes.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1414
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It worked at the federal level during the Great Depression--could it work on a smaller scale for the city?



As pointed out by El_jimbo, it wasn't very effective as an economic stimulus when tried at a massive, national level during the 1930's, so why would you expect it to be very effective on a much smaller scale at a local level?

My point is that politicians just like to cloak their taxing and spending plans in "feel-good" jargon.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 535
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not saying that government programs don't work, for economic development. For example, the work done during the depression by the TVA laid the groundwork for the dramatic growth in the south that happened during the 2nd half of the 20th century and on in to today.

However, the WPA planting a lot of trees wasn't exactly work that would generate a lot of economic development.

As has been stated, if the funding is used for things that actually spur economic development (infrastructure improvements, increased services, venture capital for startups, etc) then the money will be well spent.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2704
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Why does the city need new police buildings?


For starters, DPD went through a reorganization that merged several police precincts. The end result was that some police stations were left with twice as much work to be done in the buildings, but only half as many holding cells, desks, lockers, and so on.
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 5:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city has already sold off some of the buildings they used for cops and has either built new public safety buildings _ like in southwest detroit _ or will lease new space, such as the new central precinct, where the old building was sold to the Fishbone Restaurant owners and the leased building at Grand Blvd. and Woodward, which is Kilpatrick crony.
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 258
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit voters approved several bonds *that did not increase the millage rate* a few years ago: safety, lighting, parks, etc. the deal with the bonds is that the city's books for 2006 had to close before they could go forward, that has just happened, supposedly. let's hope these things get moving and that the overspending is limited. i think we would all welcome some tax cuts.
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But I think the "trick" politicians have with asking for bond issues, is Detroit voters approve them overwhelmingly. My hunch is that: No. 1. Most voters ARE NOT property owners, the city lags in home-ownership rate and 2. Many of the traditional voters _ older, seniors etc. _ have homes with low assessed values due to Proposal A so for them a couple more mills on their tax bill is negligible but the newer property owners, especially without tax abated homes, carry most of the tax brunt.

As an added note: the city, as well as public schools, do a miserable job of spending the bond money and just, for who knows what reason, hold on to the cash cuz they can't agree on a project.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 526
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm afraid Kwame will look more like George Custer after the Battle of the Little Big Horn if he doesn't come up with the cash to back his big plans.
Sounds like more hot air from the big wind bag.

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