Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 2008 North American International Auto Show Previous Next
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11741
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 5:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This past Saturday I hit the 2008 North American International Auto Show. Armed with my camera, I took close to 200 pictures. Once again, I blogged about what I felt were the most noteworthy, and uploaded the rest of the pics to my flickr account.

Be forewarned, I lean towards American made cars, though actually took more pictures of foreign cars than I have in years past. I am actually finding many of the new concept hybrids very eye catching, as the styling has improved significantly this year.

As for the show, just as in years past, my biggest bitch has become the size of Cobo. We arrived at 9 am, got into the show around 9:30, and could see most everything we wanted, as is apparent in the many good shots I was able to get. By around noon, the crowds become overwhelming, and the show simply miserable. We surprisingly hung around till about 3 pm, and by then, I was more than ready to go.

Another note, the magic seems to have been lost this year. The big displays from the past seem to be shrinking. There isn't as much hoopla as there used to be in my opinion. At one point I even noted that it felt more like walking through a big show room than an auto show. The concepts and over the top cars seem to be dying off. Maybe the last few years with the new Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, GTO, Vipers, and special Vettes has spoiled me. Or maybe its simply the direction the industry has to head, one in which takes the green road. I'm sure I missed some displays, but I didn't see a single vehicle description that listed horsepower ratings! It was even absent from special edition cars.

Anyway, for those who are interested, check out my pictures and two cents here:

http://motorcitymuscle.blogspo t.com/

(Message edited by supersport on January 21, 2008)
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1368
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I assume you mean 2008... unless you did a sneak peek into the future :-D

Nice photos by the way
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14andhayes
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Username: 14andhayes

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He went all the way to the year 2000...
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Eboyer
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Username: Eboyer

Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You also mean the Ford Verve, not the Rave.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 10038
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have felt like it was walking into a showroom for years. I have never beena big fan of the Auto Show. My fav is Autorama. You going this year Sport?
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393bird
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Username: 393bird

Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great pictures. I have been a car nut since I was about 12 years old, and am Retired now, but still prefer a high performance car to a econobox. I love the soon to be released Camaro and Challenger. I have a hard time getting excited over a cookie cutter 4 door sedan, and will never buy one till I get to where I need the rear doors to put a wheel chair in the back seat. :-)

I drive a 2007 Mustang convertible V6 and a GMC V6 pickup day to day, and a 800 HP E85 powered Thunderbird when I want to have some fun.

Watched several hours of Barrett-Jackson auctions this weekend. Amazing!
Check my Senior Citizen Grocery Getter.
http://members.tccoa.com/392bi rd/
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11742
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll be at Autorama for sure!
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 10043
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give me a call, I still owe you some $$ but am not planning on going over anytime soon except I might go to Autorama if a friend of mine goes.
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Jiminnm
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Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

393, I like that car. I had a 1989 T-Bird Super Coupe. The only problem was that the rear tires continually suffered extraordinary wear. I was never able to solve that problem.

Being 1,600 miles away, I was relegated to experiencing the Auto Show through the CNBC show. It was very disappointing. My wife and I have decided that going in person may be a sufficient reason to make the trip back to Detroit.
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Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55

Post Number: 1118
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Chevy 2009 Camaro - welcome back to 1969.

No doubt, it will follow the same sales curve as the Thunderbird that was revived (and killed off) a few years ago. They will sell maybe 30,000 the first year to the 52 to 62 year-olds who wanted one back then; in 2010, they'll sell 16,000; in 2011, 7,000. All gone by 2012.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11743
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Thunderbird failed for a reason, it was a sad attempt at a two seat sports car. Way too heavy, under powered, and handled like a freighter.

The Camaro will appeal to the same group that the Challenger and Mustang appeal to, one that Ford has had no troubles selling to. Alan55, your numbers are seriously way off, as first year sales will more likely be in the 100,000-150,000 range.

393bird,

Email me when you get a chance, as I'd love to hear more about your E85 powered car. I'm starting to lean towards going the E85 on my own project, a 1,000+ hp Chevy Big Block (with nitrous). Supersport350 at hotmail.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1375
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two things make the '09 Camaro way different that the "retro" thunderbird

1) Price: The T-bird was priced starting @ $38k. The Camaro starts at $25k and tops out around $40k

2) Looks and nostalgia; The T-bird was a horrible version of the 50's classic. The Camaro look smuch like the '69 with an updated twist which appeals to buyers.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2559
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was thinking about going. I wasn't too impressed with the show the last time I went (in 2006) and I didn't want to waste a trip back there and be disappointed again.

Though nothing could be more disappointing than New York's auto show. I've had more fun in dealerships...
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 247
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to the show tonight after work and dinner at Jacoby's.

393bird: I give you big props on the 800hp Tbird, but a V6 Mustang, WHY?? That's like buying caffeine free diet Mt Dew. It just doens't make sense.
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cadillac has really impressed me lately. It's def on my short list for my next new car.
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Civilprotectionunit4346
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Username: Civilprotectionunit4346

Post Number: 617
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can see the boomer generation isn't to happy with the autoshow. I can see why because they grew up in a diffrent generation with diffrent types of Automobiles..aka muscle cars & hotrods. Then they moved into the 80's with the big family cruisers & then into the 90's with the SUV craze which appealed to them. The newer generations are making more of an impact now in the auto industry, people are realizing they don't need to use a big vehicle to take 2 kids to soccer practice. Also I wanted to say that I am quite impressed that that the autoshow is showing a green image.
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 228
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Ford Verve looks great. Too bad it's still two yrs away. Ford should market it with a lot of really cool bright colors.
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Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sport: "Alan55, your numbers are seriously way off, as first year sales will more likely be in the 100,000-150,000 range."

100,000 to 150,000? Please. The only recent GM specialty car to hit even 100,000 in it's first year introduction was the Fiero 20 years ago, which nose-dived in subsequent years and was gone after it's fourth production year (I have one with less than 12,000 miles on it.) Reatta?, No, less than 8,000 (The planning was for 20,000 per year). Allante? Nope, only about 2,500. The Corvette, in it's best years, struggles to hit 40,000. I remember the EV1; marketing planned for 2,000 per year, and after the third year or so, after 450 TOTAL were produced, GM pulled the plug.

I applaud your optimism, but it's good to finally find out who was giving the GM execs their inflated production estimates all of those years.
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Monahan568
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Username: Monahan568

Post Number: 262
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went during the industry preview showing on wednesday... It seems like the people running the show are all but handing over the reins to L.A. to take over the effort after this year... Hardly any industry people either that day which was sad to see. The displays were uninspired, the models on the floor were nothing new or cutting edge, and half joking but even the Rep's seemed uninterested in being there. I was also surprised half the space inside was completely un-utilized and left just empty with no exhibits at all. Cobo does not need to be expanded any in my mind after seeing that waste of space there...The hybrid sales pitch was being pushed a little too much too i.m.o...and what is being displayed isn't anything new, just the same old nonsense, this time under bad florescent light and different colored paint...ugh. But on the flip side, maybe it got on alot of nerves because that was the only thing being pitched...
All in all, it was kind of a sobering affair. I'm surprised because given the state of the biz at the moment, the effort should have been something better than that...this might just be a glimpse at how close we really are to the "curtain call" of things so to speak...anyways I just wanted to throw those observations out there in case anyone saw what I saw too...
I guess my highlight was that I almost walked right into Chris Chelios while walking around aimlessly at the end, which was kinda funny but mostly embarrassing lol...
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Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1376
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I applaud your optimism, but it's good to finally find out who was giving the GM execs their inflated production estimates all of those years"

^^^ lol lol
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 305
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you go to the same auto show as me, Monahan? I don't recall it being anything like that. I feel like the Detroit automakers gave their best showing in years...

The only thing I'll agree with you on is the extreme push of green technology. It was almost over the top. But, I guess that's what is driving consumers these days.
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Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1379
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 8:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The only thing I'll agree with you on is the extreme push of green technology. It was almost over the top. But, I guess that's what is driving consumers these days."

^^
No it's the "in thing" to do these days. These are things that should have been done years ago but now you don't dare be the company that isn't green. A green Ferrari... wow.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11744
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alan55,

You honestly believe the Camaro is a "specialty" car? LMAO

quote:

The only recent GM specialty car to hit even 100,000 in it's first year introduction was the Fiero 20 years ago



Well, not sure if your first year number is true or not, but by the 2nd year, the 1994 Camaro production came in at 110,000. Combine that with the Firebird numbers for that year, which is essentially the same car, and your total is 156,000. So why is it so hard to believe that the new Camaro wouldn't come in at or above 100,000?
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Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1381
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ simple: the current economic climate and fuel economy "awareness"
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393bird
Member
Username: 393bird

Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jiminnm:
I would guess your problem was caused by improperly adjusted camber. The adjustment was hidden, and many Ford mechanics do not know about it.

Supersport:
E85 is some great stuff for high compression, supercharged, or turboed engines. Here is some information I have compiled.
http://members.tccoa.com/392bi rd/e85.htm

And for carbed engines:
http://members.tccoa.com/392bi rd/carbtech.htm


Raptor56:
I drive the V6 Mustang to save enough cash to feed the Tbird. :-)
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Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55

Post Number: 1135
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"You honestly believe the Camaro is a "specialty" car? LMAO"

Uh, yeah, definitely a specialty car. Which, unlike the 1994 Camaro / Firebird, will only be sold out of Chevy dealerships, so there will be no twin vehicles to combine numbers.

But why cherry-pick the magical year of 1994? Let's take a look at succeeding years -

1994 - 116,592
1995 - 97,525
1996 - 66,866
1997 - 55,977
(- Refreshed design)
1998 - 48,490
2000 - 45,417
2001 - 29,009
2002 - 41,777 (Last-year nostalgia)
2003 - gone

The only reason they built these old Camaros as long as they did was the fact they had built them since the stone age, and the tooling had been paid for many years earlier.


So, yeah, this upcoming specialty car will be snapped up in the first year by the Viet Nam-era old dudes who either had one back when, or didn't have one but wanted one, tail off badly in the second, barely register any sales in the third, then bye-bye.
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Track75
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Username: Track75

Post Number: 2692
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 12:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So, yeah, this upcoming specialty car will be snapped up in the first year by the Viet Nam-era old dudes who either had one back when, or didn't have one but wanted one, tail off badly in the second, barely register any sales in the third, then bye-bye.

Just like the new Mustang, eh?

Post the 05, 06 and 07 Mustang volumes. 100K+ each year.

Now, the Mustang was a home run, I don't know if the Camaro hits the mark as well but if it does it will come in closer to Mustang numbers than T-Bird numbers.
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393bird
Member
Username: 393bird

Post Number: 20
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 9:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only things that will hurt the Camaro from being a huge long term hit, is the Dodge Challenger coming out about the same time, and the economy and fuel prices. With the Camaro and Challenger both coming out with engine size options available, that should help. If I wasn't Retired, I would be trading my 07 Mustang in on a new Challenger.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4379
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm getting down there today to check it out. I'm looking forward to pricing out some English luxury sedans (just kidding). In truth, I want to see if this thing has lost its luster. With the local companies tight on cash and the show falling in prominence a bit, I kind of expect it, but on the other hand, I haven't been to the show in a few years and now that I'm older and not as much of a car person, perhaps I won't be as wide-eyed. I'm still hoping to impressed, and hoping more so that my out-of-state friend will be.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 4734
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if i recall correctly, last year they were saying the base Camaro will be around $5-7K higher than the base 'Stang
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Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55

Post Number: 1151
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Just like the new Mustang, eh?"

No, just like the Camaro, Fiero, Allante, Reatta, and well, every other specialty car GM has tried in the last 20 years.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4381
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 5:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Loved the show, and the vibe around there today.

I was just sad that Aston Martin and Porsche weren't there.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11745
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 5:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alan55,

One this is for certain though, however many years the Camaro is built it will kick the shit outta the Mustang, as it has nearly every year in the past.
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56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 2020
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 6:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

required for new Camaro ownership
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401don
Member
Username: 401don

Post Number: 233
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone hear any news about GM axing/postponing the Pontiac G8? The was some news in Toronto that the Oshawa plant still hasn't heard about their next new product yet and only the Camaro is currently scheduled for production there despite millions in GM and gov't investment in the new flex manufacturing. Not the best time for a new full-size rear wheel drive launch.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4936
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 3:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't GM's game plan to eventually combine the Pontiac and Buick lines--taking the best of the two and dumping (or not further developing) the rest? Then those dealerships would have that revised line plus GMC.

Ditto for reorganizing the Cadillac, Chevrolet, and Saturn lines? The US sales for GM will eventually take a back seat to its offshore sales--where GM actually makes a decent profit already--especially as the US economy becomes less significant on a global scale.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 395
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 10:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hadn't been to the Autoshow in years. We went last night and I was very impressed. There was definitely more flash and buzz. To me, the older Autoshows were cars parked on the floor with the nice ones rotating on turntables.
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Dustin89
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Username: Dustin89

Post Number: 194
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 5:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just got back from the show. I parked @ Washington and Lafayette and this was one of the best times I've ever had there; I've gone for several years now. The crowd was not huge, and the temperature was not set by a drug fiend like last year. One thing I did notice today is that Michigan & Cass (the Rosa Parks Transit Center construction site, I think) looked messy--I can't wait until that's done. Inside Cobo, some of the highlights for me were the VW Passat CC concept, and the entire VW display. It was also cool being able to check out the smart car. Cadillac has some very nice cars to show off, but their exhibit was pretty understated; in previous years, I remember people being able to get inside of the Escalades, but this year they were roped off. Anyway, it was a great NAIAS and I'm looking forward to the next one.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11747
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 10:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It should also be noted that the V8 Camaro has historically always got good gas mileage. My dad's 1995 Formula knocked down 27 mpg highway before a 4.10 gear swap. The new Camaro is supposed to get 30 mpg highway.

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