 
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2560
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:29 pm: |    |
quote:So while, Wayne County does have DPS and a few other under-performing districts, you can still live in the county and send your kids to some of the best schools in the nation.
Michigan. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 106
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:39 pm: | |
I would say that most of the Top 15 school districts in Michigan would probably rank within the Top 500 school districts within the nation. (there's really no way of truly determining such a ranking, considering the wide variation of "standardized" testing throughout the U.S.
Michigan as a whole has better schools than most states, especially when you consider how good Michigan residents are at segregating themselves into little pockets of wealth. DPS is so "bad" simply because the suburban districts are so "good". In places like Miami and Los Angeles many of the school districts have a more diverse student body (racially, culturally, and economically) and so test results are generally more "diluted".
But regardless whether your a top 15 district in Michigan or a top 500 district in the U.S. you're definitely getting a good education. |
Brian_fitzcarraldo
Member
Username: Brian_fitzcarraldo
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:49 pm: | |
Johnlodge: A lot of people like living in an area that exposes them to a wide range of people and cultures. It's just more interesting and fun than living in a white-bread 'burb. Plus, it's enlightening in some ways -- you get more culturally aware, and you get a more realistic perspective on life, politics, etc.
French: I hate to say it, but Detroit's schools are just not going to be a mark in the plus column over Oakland County. For every nice Detroit school, there are a few mind-blowing OC schools. It's all about the money -- rich counties can afford ridiculous private schools and Mandarin classes in public elementary schools. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2561
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
quote:Michigan as a whole has better schools than most states, especially when you consider how good Michigan residents are at segregating themselves into little pockets of wealth. DPS is so "bad" simply because the suburban districts are so "good". In places like Miami and Los Angeles many of the school districts have a more diverse student body (racially, culturally, and economically) and so test results are generally more "diluted".
Everybody does that. New York City has a district that is just as bad as Detroit's. Long Island, Westchester County, NY, Fairfield County, CT, and Northern New Jersey have school districts that dwarf most districts in Michigan.
I'm searching for the list of top high schools per US News & World Report but I can't find it right now. If memory serves me correctly, Michigan barely had a handful of high schools on the list out of the top 1,000 in the nation. The list was very east coast heavy... which makes sense because they seem to put a lot more into education around here.
Personally, if I lived in Michigan (and had a kid) I would likely have my kid in private school no matter where I lived. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 108
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:05 pm: | |
New England and much of the Northeast does have lots of great school districts, but it's not as if students in Michigan aren't getting the same basic education.
And don't bother looking up that US News & World Report list. We're talking about standardized test scores not student to teacher ratios or per pupil spending or number of future Ivy Leaguers. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2562
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:10 pm: | |
quote:And don't bother looking up that US News & World Report list. We're talking about standardized test scores not student to teacher ratios or per pupil spending or number of future Ivy Leaguers.
How can you compare Michigan schools to those in other states if you only use standardized test scores? |
Brian_fitzcarraldo
Member
Username: Brian_fitzcarraldo
Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:12 pm: | |
Also, Wayne County has some nice, high-income school districts, but that doesn't necessarily mean the schools are terribly good.
I went to public schools in Grosse Pointe most of my life, and it really wasn't very impressive. Sure, the schools test well -- kids with educated, high-income parents generally do. It seems to me that this region's highly segregated, rich suburban school districts can get away with pretty lazy instruction by relying on the high average test scores that come along with their socioeconomic makeup. They have nice, high rankings, and the vast majority of their graduates go to college because most people get decent grades and SAT prep classes. But they're not necessarily getting an outstanding education. I don't think my graduating class sent more than one kid to the Ivies.
In Bloomfield Hills, meanwhile, they have the International Academy, which was ranked the best public high school *in the country* by Newsweek in '03. Granted, it's probably not easy to get your kids into, but in my part of Wayne County, there was no tuition-free option of that quality. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:21 pm: | |
How can you compare schools using factors such as student/teacher ratios.
If the #1 school has 14.3 students per teacher and the #2,356 has 27.2 students per teacher, what does that matter if school #2,356 does better on standardized tests than school #1. Sure it seems that fewer students per teacher might be better, but that isn't necessarily the case.
And the same is true about many other things. Who cares if 91% of the teachers at school #1 have a doctorate degree in education whereas only 30% of the teachers at school #3,256 has a doctorate. Sure, it may seem like that Dr. Jones will do a better job teaching your kid than Mrs. Smith, but we wouldn't know unless we compare a standardized test. |
Brian_fitzcarraldo
Member
Username: Brian_fitzcarraldo
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:26 pm: | |
Hudkina, why do you put so much faith in standardized test scores as a measure of instructional quality? Most experts don't. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:32 pm: | |
If "most experts" truly didn't, then we wouldn't have standardized testing.
How else would you measure standards of education? |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 282
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:36 pm: | |
Brian, are you aware that 100% of the U.S. News and Wold Report Ranking is based on AP test performance?
Hudkina: Maybe I'm misunderstanding your posts above, are you suggesting that the Livonia, Trenton and Riverview school districts are comparable to Birmingham's?
(Message edited by spartacus on January 22, 2008) |
Brian_fitzcarraldo
Member
Username: Brian_fitzcarraldo
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 5:41 pm: | |
That's the thing -- it's hard to measure instructional quality. We have standardized testing because it gives the illusion of an objective measure, and because laws like NCLB look like progress to people who don't know better. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 3630
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:32 pm: | |
Macomb County not to rich, not to poor but just right!
And way more corrupt, provincial, and downright redneck. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:40 am: | |
Well, Trenton, Riverview and Livonia students performed at the same basic level as Birmingham students on the MEAP test in comparison to most other districts in the tri-county area.
Trenton
Math - 72%
Science - 75%
Social Studies - 87%
Reading - 84%
Writing - 68%
Birmingham
Math - 78%
Science - 81%
Social Studies - 76%
Reading - 87%
Writing - 67%
Overall Birmingham did slightly better with Math, Science, and Reading. Trenton did slightly better with Social Studies and Writing.
Why is that so hard to believe? You don't have to be rich to be smart. |
Genesyxx
Member
Username: Genesyxx
Post Number: 851
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 8:12 am: | |
I think what it boils down is that the OC was thriving off of WC/Detroit's demise, and now that there's a resurgence happening, they're shaking in their italian boots. The thought of less money coming into their county has them spooked, but they're thinking selfishly, not for the good of the region. |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 540
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 8:36 am: | |
I was thinking about this thread and I realized it was all B.S.
Metro Detroit is the most segregated area in the country. Oakland, Wayne, Macomb it doesn't matter.
We are arguing over which stinks worse.
If you take Detroit out of the Wayne County mix then I would say that it is possible to find similar communities in any county in S.E. Michigan.
They are all the same. |
Drankin21
Member
Username: Drankin21
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 9:07 am: | |
Why is race always visual? |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 541
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
It would say that it isn't.
It is however the easiest way to identify ones race. |
Ferntruth
Member
Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 283
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:50 pm: | |
"I think what it boils down is that the OC was thriving off of WC/Detroit's demise, and now that there's a resurgence happening, they're shaking in their italian boots. The thought of less money coming into their county has them spooked, but they're thinking selfishly, not for the good of the region."
I agree. OC is horrible. Everyone who lives in WC should continue to live there. You would hate it here in OC. |
Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:59 pm: | |
lm from macomb county/wayne county, but ive found most service better in the OC. Plus you find more educated people usually.
(Message edited by steelworker on January 23, 2008) |
Genesyxx
Member
Username: Genesyxx
Post Number: 853
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:12 pm: | |
"I agree. OC is horrible. Everyone who lives in WC should continue to live there. You would hate it here in OC."
Actually I live in OC. I'm just a self-hater. |
Arc312
Member
Username: Arc312
Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:18 pm: | |
Ugh.
This thread is stupid. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 112
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:57 pm: | |
One thing I do know about Oakland County (or rather the Bloomfield Hills area) is that EVERYONE wears the Northern Face clothing. It's hilarious. I can understand wanting to wear something nice, but when everyone is walking around with "the Northern Face" slapped on their chest its kind of unnerving; like the Stepford Wives. I would actually feel awkward if I was wearing the same jacket as everyone else in the room... |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2569
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:10 pm: | |
People still wear North Face? Wow, that's so 2003... |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:26 pm: | |
The only time I ever saw people wearing them was in the Bloomfield Hills area (as you can see I didn't even know the name!), granted I haven't been there in about a year. Maybe they've all moved on to the next clothing fad... |
Brian_fitzcarraldo
Member
Username: Brian_fitzcarraldo
Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:38 pm: | |
Don't snotty rich kids wear North Face as a rule? I don't see what it has to do with Oakland County. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 958
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 1:14 am: | |
^No only poor Kenyans wear North Face.
Choose your living destination depending on
whatever fits your lifestyle. |
Urbanoutdoors
Member
Username: Urbanoutdoors
Post Number: 716
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 1:24 am: | |
OC has a Drunken Driver for a chief exec and WC...Detroit has a cheatin lier. Even still Wayne county has much more to offer than OC by far. |
Ferntruth
Member
Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 287
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 8:06 am: | |
"OC has a Drunken Driver for a chief exec and WC...Detroit has a cheatin lier. Even still Wayne county has much more to offer than OC by far."
This is a pointless thread. If you like WC, then LIVE THERE. If you like OC, then LIVE THERE. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 314
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 4:00 pm: | |
These are scores that I found for the High School class of 2007.
Very Interesting |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 4:41 am: | |
You're missing a few school districts. Grosse Ile had the best scores in both Science and Math.
Here are the top 15 districts in either category:
Science
1. Grosse Ile (Wayne) - 90.3%
2. Novi (Oakland) - 83.3%
3. Grosse Pointe (Wayne) - 83.2%
4. Bloomfield Hills (Oakland) - 81.9%
5. Birmingham (Oakland) - 81.3%
6. Rochester (Oakland) - 78.7%
7. Troy (Oakland) - 77.7%
8. Riverview (Wayne) - 77.2%
9. Trenton (Wayne) - 74.9%
10. Northville (Wayne) - 74.4%
11. South Lyon (Oakland) - 73.4%
12. Holly (Oakland) - 71.8%
13. Lake Orion (Oakland) - 71.7%
14. Plymouth-Canton (Wayne) - 71.5%
15. Livonia (Wayne) - 71.4%
That's 8 in Oakland County and 7 in Wayne County.
Math
1. Grosse Ile (Wayne) - 85.1%
2. Rochester (Oakland) - 79.4%
3. Bloomfield Hills (Oakland) - 79.3%
4. Birmingham (Oakland) - 78.2%
5. Grosse Pointe (Wayne) - 76.6%
6. Troy (Oakland) - 75.6%
7. Novi (Oakland) - 73.3%
8. Trenton (Wayne) - 72.0%
9. Northville (Wayne) - 71.8%
10. Plymouth-Canton (Wayne) - 69.7%
11. Riverview (Wayne) - 67.9%
12. Livonia (Wayne) - 67.1%
13. Clarkston (Oakland) - 65.5%
14. Romeo (Macomb) - 65.5%
15. South Lyon (Oakland) - 65.4%
That's 7 in Oakland, 7 in Wayne, and 1 in Macomb.
That means that that top district in all five categories came from Wayne County:
Grosse Ile in Science and Math, Grosse Pointe in Social Studies and Reading and Riverview in Writing. |
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Meap Scores OC vrs WC