Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Bing given until September for Atwater project « Previous Next »
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city wants to see progress for this parcel of land, but there currently aren't enough buyers.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080122/BUS INESS06/80122028
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is some speculation: Why is Bing having problem selling his units _ I looked at the models and they are nice, especially if you can get a riverview withoutside terrace _ yet the units were sold out or nearly so, according to reports, of the Book Cadillac?
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't fool yourself. The BC is not sold out. No matter how people want to spin it. People have put non-refundable deposits down on the right to purchase. They'll walk away with a minor loss rather than be stuck with a 500K condo they'll never be able to sell.
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Detx
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Username: Detx

Post Number: 64
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

73 units out of 112 have to be pre-sold before releasing construction funds? That's about as tight as it can get!

Hopefully, with the Feds slashing the interest rate today this project (and others) will get a much needed boost.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 948
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Assume Bing cannot get the required amount of purchasers for financing, then what? Is someone with a different name going to make people buy. Is someone with all cash going to put their money into it? I don't think so. The market is the market.
Why don't the citizens give the city council until September to turn around Detroit, otherwise get a new council.
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 223
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the city agrees with you Lefty. They would like to see progress but they're not "demanding it or else". There's no point giving a 2-3 year extension. They will just give 6-9 months at a time and revisit it. They really have no alternative.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 899
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only way people are going to buy these units against the current market is if they are already built. I know I would not commit to something that is still a question mark and at this point is still a dream.

The riverfront developments are going nowhere until someone with deep pockets steps up and foots the bill. I would be willing to bet these things would fly off the selves if they were already built. Sadly, that is not the way things work though.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 100
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On a related housing market note, What's the story with "Nine on Third"? I walk by there a couple times a week and it looks to me like not a single unit is occupied. If so, that's really disappointing.

(Message edited by jonnyfive on January 22, 2008)
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zero sold.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 102
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ouch...
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 511
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Expect almost all previously announced Detroit development projects to be cancelled or shelved for some time. World financial markets are in a freefall based on fears of an impending U. S. recession!
Tighten your belts folks; it’s going to be a bumpy ride!
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 225
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most recessions last about 9 months. Most economists are predicting an upturn in the 4th quarter. In Detroit development time, that's about 5 minutes.
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Urbanpioneer
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Username: Urbanpioneer

Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I stopped by and walked through the Nine on Third one day this summer while riding my bike to Comerica Park. The unit was OK but the price tag was $200k. -plus. Very bare-bones. View was lousy, location was half-good, half-bad --- near Traffic Jam, Bronx etc., but also across from Calumet Townhomes. I know the owners had tried to buy another building in area to rehab, but defaulted on land contract. I think they just over-extended themselves financially thinking their units would be snapped up
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Billk
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Username: Billk

Post Number: 198
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The U.S. may be heading for a recession, but the state of Michigan has been in a DEPRESSION for about 10 years now.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 281
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanpioneer, Nine on Third is listed now for $170,000 and i'm sure you could get less. Excellent comment on the location, I thought the exact same thing. Put that building on Cass or 2nd and it's a different story. I think it's a good lesson for future developers, don't sacrifice location to get cheap land to get something built.

As for Bing, at least they have a sales center now. What took so long for that?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4910
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

the state of Michigan has been in a DEPRESSION for about 10 years now.


Probably so, as related to metro Detroit/SE Michigan. The security analysts quoted on Forbes and MarketWatch often said that the Tiers went into recession--now depression--starting in Q1 1998. Which, coincidentally, is exactly ten years ago.
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 209
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whatever happenned with the @water lofts? Didn't this project have a year head start of the Watermark?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7012
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give it up Bing. You have to look at the big picture of economic development. Michigan is in great recession with no NO DEAL in sight. Save your investment dollars until our economy bounces back.

Please scrap the project and wait a couple years.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2531
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bing needs to lower those prices. Start at $250,000 and he might get a few bites. Also, Bing is competing for the kind of residents that live in the Riverfront Towers and those in Harbortown. Maybe start off as rentals, then covert to condos. Like someone said, if these things were built more people would gobble them up. Sight unseen units and a non-refundable deposit is a tough sell these days.

Regarding Nine on Third, it is too small for the money they want. The location is a 50/50 proposition as well like others have said. Too bad they can't tear down the walls of some of them to connect to others for more room. Five on Third might be more attractive than Nine on Third.
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 173
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just love how people were so confident that Bing's development, in today's economy, was a sure thing... "did you see the welcome center he built, this is another BC..."

The Book Cadillac is not a success just because you have people that put down a deposit...

Just ask the developers in Miami.
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Texorama
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Username: Texorama

Post Number: 151
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, yes indeed. Prices have to start to come down on these things. I personally am getting ready to come on the market and am considering Detroit. But with prices of condos elsewhere way, way down it's a disincentive when these developers hold the line on their prices as if they were still in a boom year.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bing should wait 2-3 years.

It's lunacy to build upmarket condos in arguably the worst housing market in the nation, especially when there are hundreds of other riverside units on the market at a lower price point.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2557
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not offer the units as rentals with the possibility of converting them to condos in five to ten years? One thousand dollars for rent for a one-bedroom riverfront apartment is a bargain in an uncertain economy.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 961
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Projects like this have virtually no shot considering they need xx amount non-refundable down, and xx amount of commitments before construction starts.

The only shot several projects have is a savior coming along with a bunch of money willing to foot the bill for construction to start. I know I would not be willing to put my name on this, site unseen.

Build it and they will sell, regardless of the market. Now, show me the money.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1632
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always find it odd that Detroit chooses to plan a renaissance during the worst of times.
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 131
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's been 50 years. Get over it. There is no "renaissance"
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, tell the developers of the Ren Cen in 1976 (during a recession) that and the people that planned all of these re-development projects during another recession.

Detroit should have been planning "something" during the 80s and 90s when the economy was "decent" like Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia, NYC, etc. instead of letting the CBD rot to pieces.

(Message edited by detroitrise on February 20, 2008)
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Rel
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Username: Rel

Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I always find it odd that Detroit chooses to plan a renaissance during the worst of times."

The "worst of times" are the best to evaluate your game plan. It indicated that you need to adapt or die. You can't ride out bad times and expect the tide to magically turn without changing the momentum yourself.

On a somewhat-related note, I wish the City had more *lower-cost* new construction, if there's going to be more new construction. I will be in the market for a new home next year and will be looking in Detroit. But like many others, I can't afford a $250K condo. I think the luxury condo market is getting saturated in Detroit (and Royal Oak, for that matter).

I applaud Mr. Bing for his optimism and wish his project the best of luck. He is a bright man who has built a very successful business and cares deeply about the City.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 2521
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroit should have been planning "something" during the 80s and 90s when the economy was "decent" like Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia, NYC, etc. instead of letting the CBD rot to pieces.



Just because you were not alive then, does not mean that detroit was not planning in the 80's and 90's.

Riverfront Apts?
Harbortown?
Millender Center?
Madden Building?
Comerica Tower?
Stroh's River Place?
Lofts on Jefferson?
Trapper's Alley?
Cobo Expansion?
Comerica Park?
Fox and State?
Gem Theater Move and renovation?

Until you know of which you speak, please refrain from speaking.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1639
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch, please tell me what all went wrong with these projects then and why was there still a exodus from the CBD occurring?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5263
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Dabirch, please tell me what all went wrong with these projects then and why was there still a exodus from the CBD occurring?

[I don't know who he (Urbanize) is but I do know that he disappeared in August and was replaced in September...]

Didn't you state just a couple days ago that Detroit was over a million? Or was that yet another Urbanize? Doesn't seem like an exodus has occurred to Detroitrise if there's now over a million Detroiters, right?
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 1181
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know that anything actually "went wrong" with any of these projects. As a matter of fact, I'd argue the CBD is in better shape now than twenty years ago as a direct result of these projects.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1640
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree somewhat Eric c, I'd say the CBD experienced it's worst times during the 90s. It was a virtual Gotham City without the city.

Although, I'm almost certain the worker population is at its worst.

My point is, how did other cities across America prevent their CBD exodus while Detroit couldn't.

Apparently, we didn't try hard enough at the right times as I stated
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 573
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the exodus had mostly happened before then... by the 90's everyone who was going to leave had.

The whole pre-build market is dead pretty much across the region.

This economy is grinding to a halt with how tight money is right now - I agree, nothing is going to happen for another 9 months to a year until this loosens up.
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Deteamster
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Username: Deteamster

Post Number: 78
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What went wrong? People don't care to live in a city with an artificial Disneyland downtown when the cops don't show up to your neighborhood when somebody steals your Chrysler 14 times.
Sure it's more fun for suburbanites to fuck around downtown for a few hours twice a year and then say they're Detroit boosters...but it sure doesn't make up for losing at least ten percent of your population every decade because the rest of the city is falling to pieces.

(Message edited by DETeamster on February 20, 2008)
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Higgs1634
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Username: Higgs1634

Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deteamster... be careful, you'll be accused of Detroit bashing if you keep talking like that.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2323
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...People don't care to live in a city with an artificial Disneyland downtown..."

Yep--downtown Novi sure is a lot more genuine!

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